How to fix our crisis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

[Anonymous]

Mountains of research show that 75% of 9- to 14-year-old boys self-reported they only sometimes or rarely read for pleasure. In other words, when four boys are left to their own devices, only one will choose to read and the other three won’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To whoever posted about calc as a grad requirement, I strongly disagree with the idea that it’s necessary, but I disagree with most of the humanities students screeching about it too.

Calc was a graduation requirement for my very much not elite college, and most did it freshman year, and it was not that hard. I think a lot of people get discouraged by precal and start hating math when much of calculus is learning why you do all the nonsensical algebra work in the first place, and derivatives are pretty fun for a lot of students who aren’t into math at all. There’s now high schools with calculus requirements, and they seem to be fairing fine. I can confidently say as a STEM professional that I haven’t used any geometry in my career, nor have I don’t long division since I learned the topic. I have used calculus and much of statistics is calculus.

As a STEM person, you should understand that learning higher level math isn't necessarily about applying math in your job, but about being exposed to higher level critical thinking skills.

If the point is to strengthen critical thinking, then why not teach logic & stats instead of calculus?

We also have to prepare students for careers in stem, and most stem programs will not want to take you if you have no exposure to calculus. Calculus has the advantage of also teaching critical thinking; it’s not like logic is more critical thinking than calculus.

DP. We don't have to prepare students *who aren't interested in STEM* for careers in STEM. There is plenty of focus on STEM instruction already.

Such as? Just having stem classes doesn’t mean there’s plenty of focus.

So, you're suggesting... pushing people into STEM who have no interest and who, instead, are interested in other subjects?

Who’s pushing who in stem?! Stop talking in abstracts. Name a classroom policy that makes people take up STEM in an unfair way.

Sir or Madame, I was simply responding to your assertion that there is not "plenty of focus" on STEM. In my opinion, schools have gone overboard focusing on STEM. You see it differently. So my question you is, what are you suggesting schools do?

[Anonymous]

[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.

I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To whoever posted about calc as a grad requirement, I strongly disagree with the idea that it’s necessary, but I disagree with most of the humanities students screeching about it too.

Calc was a graduation requirement for my very much not elite college, and most did it freshman year, and it was not that hard. I think a lot of people get discouraged by precal and start hating math when much of calculus is learning why you do all the nonsensical algebra work in the first place, and derivatives are pretty fun for a lot of students who aren’t into math at all. There’s now high schools with calculus requirements, and they seem to be fairing fine. I can confidently say as a STEM professional that I haven’t used any geometry in my career, nor have I don’t long division since I learned the topic. I have used calculus and much of statistics is calculus.

As a STEM person, you should understand that learning higher level math isn't necessarily about applying math in your job, but about being exposed to higher level critical thinking skills.

If the point is to strengthen critical thinking, then why not teach logic & stats instead of calculus?

We also have to prepare students for careers in stem, and most stem programs will not want to take you if you have no exposure to calculus. Calculus has the advantage of also teaching critical thinking; it’s not like logic is more critical thinking than calculus.

DP. We don't have to prepare students *who aren't interested in STEM* for careers in STEM. There is plenty of focus on STEM instruction already.

Such as? Just having stem classes doesn’t mean there’s plenty of focus.

So, you're suggesting... pushing people into STEM who have no interest and who, instead, are interested in other subjects?

Who’s pushing who in stem?! Stop talking in abstracts. Name a classroom policy that makes people take up STEM in an unfair way.

Sir or Madame, I was simply responding to your assertion that there is not "plenty of focus" on STEM. In my opinion, schools have gone overboard focusing on STEM. You see it differently. So my question you is, what are you suggesting schools do?

No answer my question. You’re “simply responding” to me asking you to clarify your own post. What are the concrete ways we unfairly push students into STEM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.

I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.

+1, I understand your frustration fully. No one here likes to actually discuss things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To whoever posted about calc as a grad requirement, I strongly disagree with the idea that it’s necessary, but I disagree with most of the humanities students screeching about it too.

Calc was a graduation requirement for my very much not elite college, and most did it freshman year, and it was not that hard. I think a lot of people get discouraged by precal and start hating math when much of calculus is learning why you do all the nonsensical algebra work in the first place, and derivatives are pretty fun for a lot of students who aren’t into math at all. There’s now high schools with calculus requirements, and they seem to be fairing fine. I can confidently say as a STEM professional that I haven’t used any geometry in my career, nor have I don’t long division since I learned the topic. I have used calculus and much of statistics is calculus.

As a STEM person, you should understand that learning higher level math isn't necessarily about applying math in your job, but about being exposed to higher level critical thinking skills.

If the point is to strengthen critical thinking, then why not teach logic & stats instead of calculus?

We also have to prepare students for careers in stem, and most stem programs will not want to take you if you have no exposure to calculus. Calculus has the advantage of also teaching critical thinking; it’s not like logic is more critical thinking than calculus.

DP. We don't have to prepare students *who aren't interested in STEM* for careers in STEM. There is plenty of focus on STEM instruction already.

Such as? Just having stem classes doesn’t mean there’s plenty of focus.

So, you're suggesting... pushing people into STEM who have no interest and who, instead, are interested in other subjects?

Who’s pushing who in stem?! Stop talking in abstracts. Name a classroom policy that makes people take up STEM in an unfair way.

Sir or Madame, I was simply responding to your assertion that there is not "plenty of focus" on STEM. In my opinion, schools have gone overboard focusing on STEM. You see it differently. So my question you is, what are you suggesting schools do?

No answer my question. You’re “simply responding” to me asking you to clarify your own post. What are the concrete ways we unfairly push students into STEM?

Are you advocating for calculus being a graduation requirement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.

I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.

So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.

I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.

No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.

There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.

I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.

So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.

I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.

No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.

There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.

Then provide them if you want. What data was manipulated? I literally listed the facts that the US overall PISA scores are higher than those countries (and nearly tied with Denmark). There is no dispute on this…those are the results.

But sure…those are vaporous lies. You sound like a complete dipshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.

I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.

So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.

I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.

No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.

There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.

DP, people don’t know but Asian Americans actually score the highest out of any group on the PISA. US black and Hispanic students do much worse, lower than all the other countries that PP was pointing out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.

I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.

So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.

I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.

No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.

There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.

Then provide them if you want. What data was manipulated? I literally listed the facts that the US overall PISA scores are higher than those countries (and nearly tied with Denmark). There is no dispute on this…those are the results.

But sure…those are vaporous lies. You sound like a complete dipshit.

“There is no dispute on this…those are the results” a true statistician everyone. Someone give this guy a drink, he’s cracked data in a way that people with PhDs can’t. It’s not like there’s various studies looking into this PISA data. Not like I can point you to anywhere showing that black and Hispanic students score at a statistically significant worse rate than Asian students: https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/pisa2022/mathematics/achievement/. But yeah, believe the raging guy whose oh so worried about Norway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.

I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.

So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.

I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.

No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.

There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.

DP, people don’t know but Asian Americans actually score the highest out of any group on the PISA. US black and Hispanic students do much worse, lower than all the other countries that PP was pointing out.

That’s only 7% of the US population. I guess the other 93% have to do well enough to lift up the overall average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

So, your answer is to move the goal posts? Considering a country like Norway is incredibly homogenous…that makes the US overall scores even more impressive.

Oh my god, no I’m telling you to honestly share data. No post is moving, because I never even had a post- I’m a new poster, for Christ sakes. Data can be used and manipulated however you want. Just tell the people how our scores differentiate across race in this country; Hell, It actually is a really good statistic for white and Asian students, but you’re too clenched up and into internet arguments to respond in good faith.

I don’t care that Norway is homogenous. I care that we are accurately portraying the state of education in the US. The disparity is jarring and clearly racial. If you reported the facts, you will corroborate that white and Asian Americans clearly get an amazing, world-class education; hence, the copious amount of posts under this thread about how we need to change nothing and everything is fine and what even is that OP guy talking about in the first place.

So get off your ass and google the PISA data…not my job to parse this shit to your liking if you actually cared.

I was making a different point…that as far as I know there is no international outrage about the German, Austrian, French, Norwegian, etc education systems even though they score worse than the US.

No use if you just want to curse at me and then manipulate data for your views. It’s actually really sick how much people like you get away with gross lies on this forum, because you have such little data handling experience that you spread vaporous lies. It wasn’t about me; of course, I know the PISA stats by race. It’s about showing a whole rationalization of the data rather than driving assumptions into the data.

There is tons of anger about education in all those places. How much international news do you actually imbibe? No, CNN isn’t talking about the woes of French education, maybe you should read French press if that is your desire.

DP, people don’t know but Asian Americans actually score the highest out of any group on the PISA. US black and Hispanic students do much worse, lower than all the other countries that PP was pointing out.

That’s only 7% of the US population. I guess the other 93% have to do well enough to lift up the overall average.

You think black and Asian students are 7% of the population. Also white people “the other” are getting pounced on by 7% of the population. Also you’re assuming that the PISA was distributed proportional to the racial distribution of Americans.

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure what the other commenter is bubbly about. Educations are very pessimistic about our PISA performance, and we’re actually performing worse over time:https://www.future-ed.org/what-the-new-pisa-results-really-say-about-u-s-schools/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what the other commenter is bubbly about. Educations are very pessimistic about our PISA performance, and we’re actually performing worse over time:https://www.future-ed.org/what-the-new-pisa-results-really-say-about-u-s-schools/

Not bubbly…just pointing out that many first world countries score worse and much worse than us and we scored just a tad below Denmark.

You would think we would be at the literal bottom of the barrel based on this thread.