DDOT's latest plan to destroy traffic, Georgia Avenue edition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.

I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.

I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.

It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.

Look I actually feel for you. Commuting daily by car absolutely sucks and tends to break your brain over time. I get the headspace you are in and why you feel the way you do. That was me once.

Here's what opened my eyes: marrying a highway engineer (who focuses on building roads for cars -- not a city planner focused on pedestrians or cyclists or public transit) and learning how absolutely f***ed we are if we try to continue to support current car infrastructure with population growth and trends. There is literally not a way to build roads that will accommodate current driving levels without resulting in just 24-7 gridlock traffic. And WFH does not actually fix this because people still need to go places even if it's not the office. There's just no way to accommodate all the cars and it's made worse because of trends toward larger vehicles. You will never have enough roads to accommodate the onslaught of private vehicle traffic even if those roads are optimized for that traffic. You can't do it. Talk to someone who works in this field -- traffic is only going to keep getting worse forever and ever.

Some of you are obsessed with the idea that DC is not Oslo or whatever. I agree. But do we want it to be Houston or Dallas? Los Angeles? Toronto? DC has a chance right now to invest in public transportation infrastructure that can help support where the population is headed here. Even if you personally never intend to set foot on a public bus, you are going to want that infrastructure. Your current traffic woes will otherwise only get worse.

I know you won't listen to me but you should know that the vast majority of experts on infrastructure and transportation disagree with you.

It's weird how there's no more room for cars, except DC is way smaller than it used to be, and people like you want to build as much housing as possible, which would encourage more people to live here. It's hard to keep track of all the contradictions.

DC has been the same size since 1871. There are fewer people living in DC than there used to be. There are also fewer people per housing unit in DC than there used to be. There are more cars in DC than there used to be (in fact there didn't used to be any cars at all in DC). I hope this helps you figure out the seeming contradictions, which really aren't contradictions at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.

I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.

I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.

It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.

Look I actually feel for you. Commuting daily by car absolutely sucks and tends to break your brain over time. I get the headspace you are in and why you feel the way you do. That was me once.

Here's what opened my eyes: marrying a highway engineer (who focuses on building roads for cars -- not a city planner focused on pedestrians or cyclists or public transit) and learning how absolutely f***ed we are if we try to continue to support current car infrastructure with population growth and trends. There is literally not a way to build roads that will accommodate current driving levels without resulting in just 24-7 gridlock traffic. And WFH does not actually fix this because people still need to go places even if it's not the office. There's just no way to accommodate all the cars and it's made worse because of trends toward larger vehicles. You will never have enough roads to accommodate the onslaught of private vehicle traffic even if those roads are optimized for that traffic. You can't do it. Talk to someone who works in this field -- traffic is only going to keep getting worse forever and ever.

Some of you are obsessed with the idea that DC is not Oslo or whatever. I agree. But do we want it to be Houston or Dallas? Los Angeles? Toronto? DC has a chance right now to invest in public transportation infrastructure that can help support where the population is headed here. Even if you personally never intend to set foot on a public bus, you are going to want that infrastructure. Your current traffic woes will otherwise only get worse.

I know you won't listen to me but you should know that the vast majority of experts on infrastructure and transportation disagree with you.

Good news! The number of cars in DC has been declining for almost a decade. The population stopped growing about five years ago. You can stop with the Chicken Little routine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.

I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.

I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.

It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.

Look I actually feel for you. Commuting daily by car absolutely sucks and tends to break your brain over time. I get the headspace you are in and why you feel the way you do. That was me once.

Here's what opened my eyes: marrying a highway engineer (who focuses on building roads for cars -- not a city planner focused on pedestrians or cyclists or public transit) and learning how absolutely f***ed we are if we try to continue to support current car infrastructure with population growth and trends. There is literally not a way to build roads that will accommodate current driving levels without resulting in just 24-7 gridlock traffic. And WFH does not actually fix this because people still need to go places even if it's not the office. There's just no way to accommodate all the cars and it's made worse because of trends toward larger vehicles. You will never have enough roads to accommodate the onslaught of private vehicle traffic even if those roads are optimized for that traffic. You can't do it. Talk to someone who works in this field -- traffic is only going to keep getting worse forever and ever.

Some of you are obsessed with the idea that DC is not Oslo or whatever. I agree. But do we want it to be Houston or Dallas? Los Angeles? Toronto? DC has a chance right now to invest in public transportation infrastructure that can help support where the population is headed here. Even if you personally never intend to set foot on a public bus, you are going to want that infrastructure. Your current traffic woes will otherwise only get worse.

I know you won't listen to me but you should know that the vast majority of experts on infrastructure and transportation disagree with you.

Good news! The number of cars in DC has been declining for almost a decade. The population stopped growing about five years ago. You can stop with the Chicken Little routine.

Clown meet data: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/23174/washington-dc/population

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

[Anonymous]

Don't worry folks, the DDOT Director will see this rogue project put to its timely demise (similar to pedestrians in DC who dare enter a roadway).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

Check it out: It turns out there's these things called "police investigations" where the police interview people who were in the crash and they talk to bystanders who witnessed the crash and the review the footage from the cameras that are everywhere and they examine the evidence. A whole lot of people depend on those investigations. The family of the victims. Insurance companies that pay for everything. Judges and juries who might send people to prison over the crash. It turns out these "investigations" are not that different from what happens when people get raped or murdered. The police investigate those too! Later, the police produce annual reports showing the predominant reason for every crash in the city that year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Because the kids on GA ave who are walking on it are black and brown and the ones off on the side streets have a lower chance of being black and brown, duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

Check it out: It turns out there's these things called "police investigations" where the police interview people who were in the crash and they talk to bystanders who witnessed the crash and the review the footage from the cameras that are everywhere and they examine the evidence. A whole lot of people depend on those investigations. The family of the victims. Insurance companies that pay for everything. Judges and juries who might send people to prison over the crash. It turns out these "investigations" are not that different from what happens when people get raped or murdered. The police investigate those too! Later, the police produce annual reports showing the predominant reason for every crash in the city that year.

Uh huh. All those eye witness interviews sure do get victims of traffic violence like Nina Larson justice. Oh wait, that's right, despite several people literally seeing the driver run her over after blowing a stop sign onto Columbia Rd., no charges were ever pressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.

I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.

I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.

It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.

Look I actually feel for you. Commuting daily by car absolutely sucks and tends to break your brain over time. I get the headspace you are in and why you feel the way you do. That was me once.

Here's what opened my eyes: marrying a highway engineer (who focuses on building roads for cars -- not a city planner focused on pedestrians or cyclists or public transit) and learning how absolutely f***ed we are if we try to continue to support current car infrastructure with population growth and trends. There is literally not a way to build roads that will accommodate current driving levels without resulting in just 24-7 gridlock traffic. And WFH does not actually fix this because people still need to go places even if it's not the office. There's just no way to accommodate all the cars and it's made worse because of trends toward larger vehicles. You will never have enough roads to accommodate the onslaught of private vehicle traffic even if those roads are optimized for that traffic. You can't do it. Talk to someone who works in this field -- traffic is only going to keep getting worse forever and ever.

Some of you are obsessed with the idea that DC is not Oslo or whatever. I agree. But do we want it to be Houston or Dallas? Los Angeles? Toronto? DC has a chance right now to invest in public transportation infrastructure that can help support where the population is headed here. Even if you personally never intend to set foot on a public bus, you are going to want that infrastructure. Your current traffic woes will otherwise only get worse.

I know you won't listen to me but you should know that the vast majority of experts on infrastructure and transportation disagree with you.

Good news! The number of cars in DC has been declining for almost a decade. The population stopped growing about five years ago. You can stop with the Chicken Little routine.

Clown meet data: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/23174/washington-dc/population

A clown has met data! And it did not go well! You're aware, right, that you're citing data for the entire DMV? 90 percent of the people in these numbers do not actually live in the District.

You can just look at census estimates and the city's annual reports on the number of active car registrations. The former has been basically flat for almost five years; the latter has been declining since 2017.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Because the kids on GA ave who are walking on it are black and brown and the ones off on the side streets have a lower chance of being black and brown, duh.

What kids? There are no children of any color on Georgia Avenue because Georgia Avenue would be incredibly boring to children. You think kids like hanging out at run down car washes?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

Check it out: It turns out there's these things called "police investigations" where the police interview people who were in the crash and they talk to bystanders who witnessed the crash and the review the footage from the cameras that are everywhere and they examine the evidence. A whole lot of people depend on those investigations. The family of the victims. Insurance companies that pay for everything. Judges and juries who might send people to prison over the crash. It turns out these "investigations" are not that different from what happens when people get raped or murdered. The police investigate those too! Later, the police produce annual reports showing the predominant reason for every crash in the city that year.

That is a whole lot of snarky words to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

But, more to the point, you clearly have no idea whatsoever how anyone - in this case, whoever poor soul is tasked with writing an annual report read by no one other than those like you looking to put it to silly use - determines what is the “predominant reason” for every crash that occurred. And that’s fine, actually, because anyone who has thought about this for more than a couple of seconds understand that such a determination makes no sense.

It’s not something that the NTSB does when it investigates accidents and it’s not something that police investigators do either (and if you actually read the reports you are talking about, you would realize this). But for some silly reason those drafting the MPD annual reports decided to commit a crime against logic by arbitrarily picking a specific factor out of many.

For your sake alone, I wish they hadn’t done so because you have made a habit of demonstrating your lack of critical thinking by mindlessly parroting these “statistics”.

In all sincerity, you would help your cause considerably by thinking things through a bit rather than insisting that those who wrote MPD annual reports are the arbiters of absolute truth even when what they come up with makes no sense to any thinking person.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.

I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.

I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.

It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.

Look I actually feel for you. Commuting daily by car absolutely sucks and tends to break your brain over time. I get the headspace you are in and why you feel the way you do. That was me once.

Here's what opened my eyes: marrying a highway engineer (who focuses on building roads for cars -- not a city planner focused on pedestrians or cyclists or public transit) and learning how absolutely f***ed we are if we try to continue to support current car infrastructure with population growth and trends. There is literally not a way to build roads that will accommodate current driving levels without resulting in just 24-7 gridlock traffic. And WFH does not actually fix this because people still need to go places even if it's not the office. There's just no way to accommodate all the cars and it's made worse because of trends toward larger vehicles. You will never have enough roads to accommodate the onslaught of private vehicle traffic even if those roads are optimized for that traffic. You can't do it. Talk to someone who works in this field -- traffic is only going to keep getting worse forever and ever.

Some of you are obsessed with the idea that DC is not Oslo or whatever. I agree. But do we want it to be Houston or Dallas? Los Angeles? Toronto? DC has a chance right now to invest in public transportation infrastructure that can help support where the population is headed here. Even if you personally never intend to set foot on a public bus, you are going to want that infrastructure. Your current traffic woes will otherwise only get worse.

I know you won't listen to me but you should know that the vast majority of experts on infrastructure and transportation disagree with you.

Good news! The number of cars in DC has been declining for almost a decade. The population stopped growing about five years ago. You can stop with the Chicken Little routine.

Clown meet data: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/23174/washington-dc/population

A clown has met data! And it did not go well! You're aware, right, that you're citing data for the entire DMV? 90 percent of the people in these numbers do not actually live in the District.

You can just look at census estimates and the city's annual reports on the number of active car registrations. The former has been basically flat for almost five years; the latter has been declining since 2017.

Right because DC residents are the only people who drive in DC . . .

Why do you even bother to write such silly nonsense?

[Anonymous]

Maybe they can narrow Georgia Avenue and then turn 16th Street into a highway.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Because the kids on GA ave who are walking on it are black and brown and the ones off on the side streets have a lower chance of being black and brown, duh.

What kids? There are no children of any color on Georgia Avenue because Georgia Avenue would be incredibly boring to children. You think kids like hanging out at run down car washes?

There's a sign at Georgia and Kennedy street's intersection for the 2021 death of a 4 year old boy by SUV. You've been told this multiple times. Idiot.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

In a metro area of 6 million? A few deaths are inevitable so I accept that.

How many deaths will you accept? Be precise

How many bus-pedestrian deaths will you accept? Be precise.

Zero

Ok! Now we are getting somewhere. Please take a moment and identify a metro area of 6 million anywhere on the planet — including Oslo! Or Copenhagen! — that has reported a single year without one solitary car+pedestrian death.

Every metropolis of this size will have a handful. This is inevitable. You don’t have to accept this, I guess, isince you’re apparently very comfortable living among your delusions. But we will not allow you to translate your fantasy fever dreams into public policy.