DDOT's latest plan to destroy traffic, Georgia Avenue edition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Because the kids on GA ave who are walking on it are black and brown and the ones off on the side streets have a lower chance of being black and brown, duh.

What kids? There are no children of any color on Georgia Avenue because Georgia Avenue would be incredibly boring to children. You think kids like hanging out at run down car washes?

There's a sign at Georgia and Kennedy street's intersection for the 2021 death of a 4 year old boy by SUV. You've been told this multiple times. Idiot.

He was on Kennedy not Georgia. We will correct you every time you attempt to slip this by and make up a bullshit narrative to support your case

[Anonymous]

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

There are formulas they can use. The results are not very precise, though, even assuming they're accurate - which I don't. Also some of the cars do have data recorders. If it's a Tesla, there are also a lot of cameras on the car.

Based on those imprecise, inaccurate results, police can also do calculations about whether the person would have made it across the street if the driver had been driving more slowly.

There could even be a pre-determined hierarchy of causes, for example if a driver was drunk and speeding, it was a drunk-driving crash, because drunk driving takes priority over speeding. In that case, though, the "X Deaths Due To Speeding" poster's post would be even greater nonsense, because all of the other non-speeding crashes could also be speeding crashes. (Most probably are.)

That's not even getting into the whole issue of the reliability of police crash investigations. The people on the Metropolitan PD are law enforcement officers, not professional crash investigators. The MPD is not the National Transportation Safety Board.

What we do know is, the higher the speed of the car, the more likely the crash will be fatal. That's just basic physics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Because the kids on GA ave who are walking on it are black and brown and the ones off on the side streets have a lower chance of being black and brown, duh.

What kids? There are no children of any color on Georgia Avenue because Georgia Avenue would be incredibly boring to children. You think kids like hanging out at run down car washes?

There's a sign at Georgia and Kennedy street's intersection for the 2021 death of a 4 year old boy by SUV. You've been told this multiple times. Idiot.

He was on Kennedy not Georgia. We will correct you every time you attempt to slip this by and make up a bullshit narrative to support your case

He was on Kennedy at Georgia. I don't know what point you and the mouse in your pocket are trying to make, anyway.

https://mpdc.dc.gov/release/traffic-fatality-intersection-georgia-avenue-and-kennedy-street-northwest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

Check it out: It turns out there's these things called "police investigations" where the police interview people who were in the crash and they talk to bystanders who witnessed the crash and the review the footage from the cameras that are everywhere and they examine the evidence. A whole lot of people depend on those investigations. The family of the victims. Insurance companies that pay for everything. Judges and juries who might send people to prison over the crash. It turns out these "investigations" are not that different from what happens when people get raped or murdered. The police investigate those too! Later, the police produce annual reports showing the predominant reason for every crash in the city that year.

That is a whole lot of snarky words to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

But, more to the point, you clearly have no idea whatsoever how anyone - in this case, whoever poor soul is tasked with writing an annual report read by no one other than those like you looking to put it to silly use - determines what is the “predominant reason” for every crash that occurred. And that’s fine, actually, because anyone who has thought about this for more than a couple of seconds understand that such a determination makes no sense.

It’s not something that the NTSB does when it investigates accidents and it’s not something that police investigators do either (and if you actually read the reports you are talking about, you would realize this). But for some silly reason those drafting the MPD annual reports decided to commit a crime against logic by arbitrarily picking a specific factor out of many.

For your sake alone, I wish they hadn’t done so because you have made a habit of demonstrating your lack of critical thinking by mindlessly parroting these “statistics”.

In all sincerity, you would help your cause considerably by thinking things through a bit rather than insisting that those who wrote MPD annual reports are the arbiters of absolute truth even when what they come up with makes no sense to any thinking person.

Oh man, are you kinda nuts? This is just completely crazy. My favorite part is where you claim "Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs." I'm guessing you flunked elementary school math but if you know how far a vehicle traveled, and you know how long it took to travel that distance, you can always calculate the speed. That's how the whole traffic speed CAMERA thing works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

There are formulas they can use. The results are not very precise, though, even assuming they're accurate - which I don't. Also some of the cars do have data recorders. If it's a Tesla, there are also a lot of cameras on the car.

Based on those imprecise, inaccurate results, police can also do calculations about whether the person would have made it across the street if the driver had been driving more slowly.

There could even be a pre-determined hierarchy of causes, for example if a driver was drunk and speeding, it was a drunk-driving crash, because drunk driving takes priority over speeding. In that case, though, the "X Deaths Due To Speeding" poster's post would be even greater nonsense, because all of the other non-speeding crashes could also be speeding crashes. (Most probably are.)

That's not even getting into the whole issue of the reliability of police crash investigations. The people on the Metropolitan PD are law enforcement officers, not professional crash investigators. The MPD is not the National Transportation Safety Board.

What we do know is, the higher the speed of the car, the more likely the crash will be fatal. That's just basic physics.

Car hating weirdo big mad that so few people are killed by speeding drivers. Wrecks his whole narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they can narrow Georgia Avenue and then turn 16th Street into a highway.

Too late. They narrowed and removed lanes from 16th first. 16th is now a bigger cluster than ever before. That's what's going to happen to Georgia.

Don't forget that they are still planning on an additional round of shrinkage on Connecticut and talking about closing the rest of Beach plus eliminated rush hour on Rock Creek. I wonder what insanity is planned for New Hampshire? Presumably Wisconsin avoids this because that's where Frumin lives.

16th down to 1 lane (from 3)
Connecticut down to 2 (from 4)
Georgia down to 1 (from 2)
Beach partially down to 0 (from 1)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

Check it out: It turns out there's these things called "police investigations" where the police interview people who were in the crash and they talk to bystanders who witnessed the crash and the review the footage from the cameras that are everywhere and they examine the evidence. A whole lot of people depend on those investigations. The family of the victims. Insurance companies that pay for everything. Judges and juries who might send people to prison over the crash. It turns out these "investigations" are not that different from what happens when people get raped or murdered. The police investigate those too! Later, the police produce annual reports showing the predominant reason for every crash in the city that year.

That is a whole lot of snarky words to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

But, more to the point, you clearly have no idea whatsoever how anyone - in this case, whoever poor soul is tasked with writing an annual report read by no one other than those like you looking to put it to silly use - determines what is the “predominant reason” for every crash that occurred. And that’s fine, actually, because anyone who has thought about this for more than a couple of seconds understand that such a determination makes no sense.

It’s not something that the NTSB does when it investigates accidents and it’s not something that police investigators do either (and if you actually read the reports you are talking about, you would realize this). But for some silly reason those drafting the MPD annual reports decided to commit a crime against logic by arbitrarily picking a specific factor out of many.

For your sake alone, I wish they hadn’t done so because you have made a habit of demonstrating your lack of critical thinking by mindlessly parroting these “statistics”.

In all sincerity, you would help your cause considerably by thinking things through a bit rather than insisting that those who wrote MPD annual reports are the arbiters of absolute truth even when what they come up with makes no sense to any thinking person.

Oh man, are you kinda nuts? This is just completely crazy. My favorite part is where you claim "Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs." I'm guessing you flunked elementary school math but if you know how far a vehicle traveled, and you know how long it took to travel that distance, you can always calculate the speed. That's how the whole traffic speed CAMERA thing works.

Assuming constant speed. Speed in a crash is not constant. I would have thought that went without saying, but apparently not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

Check it out: It turns out there's these things called "police investigations" where the police interview people who were in the crash and they talk to bystanders who witnessed the crash and the review the footage from the cameras that are everywhere and they examine the evidence. A whole lot of people depend on those investigations. The family of the victims. Insurance companies that pay for everything. Judges and juries who might send people to prison over the crash. It turns out these "investigations" are not that different from what happens when people get raped or murdered. The police investigate those too! Later, the police produce annual reports showing the predominant reason for every crash in the city that year.

That is a whole lot of snarky words to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

But, more to the point, you clearly have no idea whatsoever how anyone - in this case, whoever poor soul is tasked with writing an annual report read by no one other than those like you looking to put it to silly use - determines what is the “predominant reason” for every crash that occurred. And that’s fine, actually, because anyone who has thought about this for more than a couple of seconds understand that such a determination makes no sense.

It’s not something that the NTSB does when it investigates accidents and it’s not something that police investigators do either (and if you actually read the reports you are talking about, you would realize this). But for some silly reason those drafting the MPD annual reports decided to commit a crime against logic by arbitrarily picking a specific factor out of many.

For your sake alone, I wish they hadn’t done so because you have made a habit of demonstrating your lack of critical thinking by mindlessly parroting these “statistics”.

In all sincerity, you would help your cause considerably by thinking things through a bit rather than insisting that those who wrote MPD annual reports are the arbiters of absolute truth even when what they come up with makes no sense to any thinking person.

Oh man, are you kinda nuts? This is just completely crazy. My favorite part is where you claim "Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs." I'm guessing you flunked elementary school math but if you know how far a vehicle traveled, and you know how long it took to travel that distance, you can always calculate the speed. That's how the whole traffic speed CAMERA thing works.

Assuming constant speed. Speed in a crash is not constant. I would have thought that went without saying, but apparently not.

You have a recording of the whole thing. Everything everyone does on the street is being recorded, often from multiple cameras at multiple angles. Car crash investigations have never in the history of automobiles been so easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

Check it out: It turns out there's these things called "police investigations" where the police interview people who were in the crash and they talk to bystanders who witnessed the crash and the review the footage from the cameras that are everywhere and they examine the evidence. A whole lot of people depend on those investigations. The family of the victims. Insurance companies that pay for everything. Judges and juries who might send people to prison over the crash. It turns out these "investigations" are not that different from what happens when people get raped or murdered. The police investigate those too! Later, the police produce annual reports showing the predominant reason for every crash in the city that year.

That is a whole lot of snarky words to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

But, more to the point, you clearly have no idea whatsoever how anyone - in this case, whoever poor soul is tasked with writing an annual report read by no one other than those like you looking to put it to silly use - determines what is the “predominant reason” for every crash that occurred. And that’s fine, actually, because anyone who has thought about this for more than a couple of seconds understand that such a determination makes no sense.

It’s not something that the NTSB does when it investigates accidents and it’s not something that police investigators do either (and if you actually read the reports you are talking about, you would realize this). But for some silly reason those drafting the MPD annual reports decided to commit a crime against logic by arbitrarily picking a specific factor out of many.

For your sake alone, I wish they hadn’t done so because you have made a habit of demonstrating your lack of critical thinking by mindlessly parroting these “statistics”.

In all sincerity, you would help your cause considerably by thinking things through a bit rather than insisting that those who wrote MPD annual reports are the arbiters of absolute truth even when what they come up with makes no sense to any thinking person.

Oh man, are you kinda nuts? This is just completely crazy. My favorite part is where you claim "Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs." I'm guessing you flunked elementary school math but if you know how far a vehicle traveled, and you know how long it took to travel that distance, you can always calculate the speed. That's how the whole traffic speed CAMERA thing works.

Clowns will write clown things. We all know how speed cameras work. And must of us - other than you - also know that DC is not blanketed in cameras - speed or otherwise - as would be needed to reliably determine the speed of every vehicle involved in every crash in DC. The recent death of Patricia Bullinger being a good case in point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

There are formulas they can use. The results are not very precise, though, even assuming they're accurate - which I don't. Also some of the cars do have data recorders. If it's a Tesla, there are also a lot of cameras on the car.

Based on those imprecise, inaccurate results, police can also do calculations about whether the person would have made it across the street if the driver had been driving more slowly.

There could even be a pre-determined hierarchy of causes, for example if a driver was drunk and speeding, it was a drunk-driving crash, because drunk driving takes priority over speeding. In that case, though, the "X Deaths Due To Speeding" poster's post would be even greater nonsense, because all of the other non-speeding crashes could also be speeding crashes. (Most probably are.)

That's not even getting into the whole issue of the reliability of police crash investigations. The people on the Metropolitan PD are law enforcement officers, not professional crash investigators. The MPD is not the National Transportation Safety Board.

What we do know is, the higher the speed of the car, the more likely the crash will be fatal. That's just basic physics.

Car hating weirdo big mad that so few people are killed by speeding drivers. Wrecks his whole narrative.

You are absolutely pathetic. I know five year olds who write with more maturity than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?

It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.

Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.

Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?

It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.

Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.

Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.

You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.

But I didn’t because we are helping you to come to terms with the fact that there is no city in the developed world that has ever had zero pedestrian deaths.

It’s an irrational goal. Why then is it your talisman?

How many deaths are you willing to accept?

Here's the number of speeding deaths each year in DC. As you can see, the numbers don't really change in a statistically significant way from year to year, despite all the things the city has down to try to "calm" traffic. These numbers are quite small, given the number of people on the road. If you were to list the 500 top ways people in Washington D.C. die, traffic deaths would not be on the list.

2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 9
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11
2012: 5
2011: 15
2010: 8

I am very curious about the methodology that underscores these statistics. If an unlicensed and drunk driver is speeding, runs a red light, has a heart attack, and then crosses into the path of oncoming traffic and kills someone else, to what cause do we attribute their death if we must pick only one? How also do the police definitively know whether a vehicle involved in a crash was speeding in the lead-up to the collision when cars aren’t equipped with black boxes?

Check it out: It turns out there's these things called "police investigations" where the police interview people who were in the crash and they talk to bystanders who witnessed the crash and the review the footage from the cameras that are everywhere and they examine the evidence. A whole lot of people depend on those investigations. The family of the victims. Insurance companies that pay for everything. Judges and juries who might send people to prison over the crash. It turns out these "investigations" are not that different from what happens when people get raped or murdered. The police investigate those too! Later, the police produce annual reports showing the predominant reason for every crash in the city that year.

That is a whole lot of snarky words to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

But, more to the point, you clearly have no idea whatsoever how anyone - in this case, whoever poor soul is tasked with writing an annual report read by no one other than those like you looking to put it to silly use - determines what is the “predominant reason” for every crash that occurred. And that’s fine, actually, because anyone who has thought about this for more than a couple of seconds understand that such a determination makes no sense.

It’s not something that the NTSB does when it investigates accidents and it’s not something that police investigators do either (and if you actually read the reports you are talking about, you would realize this). But for some silly reason those drafting the MPD annual reports decided to commit a crime against logic by arbitrarily picking a specific factor out of many.

For your sake alone, I wish they hadn’t done so because you have made a habit of demonstrating your lack of critical thinking by mindlessly parroting these “statistics”.

In all sincerity, you would help your cause considerably by thinking things through a bit rather than insisting that those who wrote MPD annual reports are the arbiters of absolute truth even when what they come up with makes no sense to any thinking person.

Oh man, are you kinda nuts? This is just completely crazy. My favorite part is where you claim "Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs." I'm guessing you flunked elementary school math but if you know how far a vehicle traveled, and you know how long it took to travel that distance, you can always calculate the speed. That's how the whole traffic speed CAMERA thing works.

Assuming constant speed. Speed in a crash is not constant. I would have thought that went without saying, but apparently not.

You have a recording of the whole thing. Everything everyone does on the street is being recorded, often from multiple cameras at multiple angles. Car crash investigations have never in the history of automobiles been so easy.

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. And sometimes they might, if they went to the effort, but they don't go to the effort. Here's an idea: go offer your expertise to the MPD fatal crash investigators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Because the kids on GA ave who are walking on it are black and brown and the ones off on the side streets have a lower chance of being black and brown, duh.

What kids? There are no children of any color on Georgia Avenue because Georgia Avenue would be incredibly boring to children. You think kids like hanging out at run down car washes?

There's a sign at Georgia and Kennedy street's intersection for the 2021 death of a 4 year old boy by SUV. You've been told this multiple times. Idiot.

He was on Kennedy not Georgia. We will correct you every time you attempt to slip this by and make up a bullshit narrative to support your case

He was on Kennedy at Georgia. I don't know what point you and the mouse in your pocket are trying to make, anyway.

https://mpdc.dc.gov/release/traffic-fatality-intersection-georgia-avenue-and-kennedy-street-northwest

He was not "at Georgia." He was jaywalking across Kennedy St., outside of a crosswalk. He jaywalked into the path of a lawfully operated vehicle that was not speeding and that had the right of way

The point? is that this sad case does not offer one iota of evidence that there should be a bus lane on Georgia to choke north-south traffic.

The POINT is that you keep lying and saying this kid was on Georgia.

If anything, this sad case supports your opponents and you're too dim to realize this. It offers evidence that traffic that will be diverted from Georgia onto north-south residential side streets poses a serious risk to little kids who do little kid things like run out into the street where they live without looking.

Your senior thesis idea will cause cars to run over kids. Bad idea.

"The operator then crossed over Georgia Avenue, Northwest, into onto the 900 block of Kennedy Street, Northwest. As the operator entered the block, a juvenile male was crossing the street, outside of a marked crosswalk. The operator struck the victim then immediately came to a stop and remained on scene."
https://mpdc.dc.gov/release/traffic-fatality-intersection-georgia-avenue-and-kennedy-street-northwest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!

Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.

Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?

Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.

This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.

They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.

The data and research that you made up in your head.

In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.

Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.

Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.

Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?

[Mic drop]

Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?

Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.

To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?

Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...

Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?

Because the kids on GA ave who are walking on it are black and brown and the ones off on the side streets have a lower chance of being black and brown, duh.

What kids? There are no children of any color on Georgia Avenue because Georgia Avenue would be incredibly boring to children. You think kids like hanging out at run down car washes?

There's a sign at Georgia and Kennedy street's intersection for the 2021 death of a 4 year old boy by SUV. You've been told this multiple times. Idiot.

He was on Kennedy not Georgia. We will correct you every time you attempt to slip this by and make up a bullshit narrative to support your case

He was on Kennedy at Georgia. I don't know what point you and the mouse in your pocket are trying to make, anyway.

https://mpdc.dc.gov/release/traffic-fatality-intersection-georgia-avenue-and-kennedy-street-northwest

He was not "at Georgia." He was jaywalking across Kennedy St., outside of a crosswalk. He jaywalked into the path of a lawfully operated vehicle that was not speeding and that had the right of way

The point? is that this sad case does not offer one iota of evidence that there should be a bus lane on Georgia to choke north-south traffic.

The POINT is that you keep lying and saying this kid was on Georgia.

If anything, this sad case supports your opponents and you're too dim to realize this. It offers evidence that traffic that will be diverted from Georgia onto north-south residential side streets poses a serious risk to little kids who do little kid things like run out into the street where they live without looking.

Your senior thesis idea will cause cars to run over kids. Bad idea.

"The operator then crossed over Georgia Avenue, Northwest, into onto the 900 block of Kennedy Street, Northwest. As the operator entered the block, a juvenile male was crossing the street, outside of a marked crosswalk. The operator struck the victim then immediately came to a stop and remained on scene."
https://mpdc.dc.gov/release/traffic-fatality-intersection-georgia-avenue-and-kennedy-street-northwest

I don't know what point you're trying to make, other than blaming a four-year-old child for getting killed in a car crash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

There are formulas they can use. The results are not very precise, though, even assuming they're accurate - which I don't. Also some of the cars do have data recorders. If it's a Tesla, there are also a lot of cameras on the car.

Based on those imprecise, inaccurate results, police can also do calculations about whether the person would have made it across the street if the driver had been driving more slowly.

There could even be a pre-determined hierarchy of causes, for example if a driver was drunk and speeding, it was a drunk-driving crash, because drunk driving takes priority over speeding. In that case, though, the "X Deaths Due To Speeding" poster's post would be even greater nonsense, because all of the other non-speeding crashes could also be speeding crashes. (Most probably are.)

That's not even getting into the whole issue of the reliability of police crash investigations. The people on the Metropolitan PD are law enforcement officers, not professional crash investigators. The MPD is not the National Transportation Safety Board.

What we do know is, the higher the speed of the car, the more likely the crash will be fatal. That's just basic physics.

Car hating weirdo big mad that so few people are killed by speeding drivers. Wrecks his whole narrative.

Among the many sad things about you is that you still don’t understand - or at least don’t want to admit that you understand - that there is absolutely nothing in the tabulation you have presented to suggest that these people were killed by drivers who were obeying the speed limit. Just because someone tagged another cause as predominant - using whatever hierarchy they choose to use - does not mean that the driver was not speeding. This is so elementary that it pains me to have to explain it you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In most such investigations, police investigators have no feasible means of determining whether a car was above or below the speed limit in the lead up to the crash. This is not something that bystanders - if they exist - or the driver can or will reliably attest to. Sometimes camera footage can be used to determine speed, but this requires a fortuitous coincidence of circumstances that rarely occurs.

There are formulas they can use. The results are not very precise, though, even assuming they're accurate - which I don't. Also some of the cars do have data recorders. If it's a Tesla, there are also a lot of cameras on the car.

Based on those imprecise, inaccurate results, police can also do calculations about whether the person would have made it across the street if the driver had been driving more slowly.

There could even be a pre-determined hierarchy of causes, for example if a driver was drunk and speeding, it was a drunk-driving crash, because drunk driving takes priority over speeding. In that case, though, the "X Deaths Due To Speeding" poster's post would be even greater nonsense, because all of the other non-speeding crashes could also be speeding crashes. (Most probably are.)

That's not even getting into the whole issue of the reliability of police crash investigations. The people on the Metropolitan PD are law enforcement officers, not professional crash investigators. The MPD is not the National Transportation Safety Board.

What we do know is, the higher the speed of the car, the more likely the crash will be fatal. That's just basic physics.

Car hating weirdo big mad that so few people are killed by speeding drivers. Wrecks his whole narrative.

You are absolutely pathetic. I know five year olds who write with more maturity than you.

Ok, now do murder investigations. Tell us how those are all bullshit too and THE REAL KILLER IS STILL OUT THERE!