JK Rowling's gender policing finally caught up to her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

How about someone like Michael Phelps who has a rare body type - his arm span is longer than his height - that gives him an advantage over other male swimmers? That doesn’t seem fair now does it?

A woman has never broken a man’s record. Phelps’ records have all been broken. Perhaps sex is a bigger differentiator than wingspan or foot size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

How about someone like Michael Phelps who has a rare body type - his arm span is longer than his height - that gives him an advantage over other male swimmers? That doesn’t seem fair now does it?

Of course it’s fair. He is a man, competing with men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.

I trust science.

so even if she was born with female sex organs, you want her to transition to male? It is illegal in her country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I do feel its complex to allow trans women into women's sports. But that's not the issue with Imane. A lot of people misunderstood what was going on and apologized once they realized they were wrong. Has Rowling apologized for mischaracterizing the situation? Has Musk?

What did Rowling get wrong? Be specific.

Troll.

Sounds like you can’t find anything incorrect about her statements. You just hate her because she supports women. Typical.

Regardless if Khelif actually is a genetic anomaly, she was raised as a woman in a country where women have limited options. She had to fight tooth and nail to be a woman in boxing. She experienced gender discrimination.

She has lived the life of a woman with all the parts and baggage. And YET..Rowling dismissed all that, all the struggles she supposedly cares about, because Khelif MAY have a DSD, which is nowhere near the same as being a man.

So she only seems to care about certain kinds of women, which is ERFish (not TERFish).

Depending the DSD, Khelif would still be male even if his parents call him she and put him in dresses. Having a DSD does not make one non male necessarily.

Yeah well, it is all speculation. And intersex indicates that sex is really more bimodal than binary. If we accept that ANY presence of an X or Y makes someone male or female, than we ignore that XY gonadal dysgenesis (with Y chromosome, but dysfunctional SRY group) exists, which presents externally as female. 46,XX/46,XY chimerism also exists, which can result in either indeterminate sex characteristics or just entirely male or female presentation.

To add: an XY-female who has an Y-chromosome but either suffers from androgen insensitivity or a damaged SRY-gene is not a "male" as we know it, no more than an XX-male with a translocated SRY-gene to one of the other chromosomes is a “female."

It is just too complicated, so why not keep it simple. Birth certificates. Otherwise, we have to also account for other anomalies like height and lung capacity and musculature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Where is your citation for Khalif being intersex?

The original chromosome tests, which even the boxing coach acknowledged in a French interview and the fact that Khalif withdrew their challenge with the boxing authority.

Which no one has produced. They made reference to them but didn’t release them. So what you have is a test that maybe took place and maybe said something but maybe not. That’s hardly a citation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

You literally cannot prove anything you just wrote. Khelif is a biological female, per her own words and her country's assertions. She's even lost boxing matches to other women! You would - maybe - have a point if she was undefeated.

There is a daily mail article that says otherwise. It’s looking like she may be XY. Unless you mean that her just saying it makes it so.

So what happens if she's XY but has female genitalia and natural secondary characteristics (eg, breasts, hips, etc)?

What will you people do?

Please specify the specific medical disorder you are referring to and we will discuss.

46,XY

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/swyer-syndrome/

This affects 1 in 80,000. So there's 100,000 on earth living with this. That's not a small number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

How about someone like Michael Phelps who has a rare body type - his arm span is longer than his height - that gives him an advantage over other male swimmers? That doesn’t seem fair now does it?

Of course it’s fair. He is a man, competing with men.

Yeah, and Khelif is a woman competing with other women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

That's .... not how science works. It can tell you whether a Y chromosome is present. That doesn't tell you that a person without a penis and who has been a female all her life is suddenly a man for purposes of international boxing competitions.

International Boxing Association's president had previously said a test had shown she had XY chromosomes and therefore did not meet their eligibility criteria.

And he refused to say what the test was, and then changed his story under questioning, and he represents a corrupt organization tied to Russia. So not exactly something any reasonable person would rely on.

Well hopefully the court case requires the boxer to take a test. That should clear things up.

Whether you like the international boxing association president or not, the boxer failed the test last year.

Haha, the world is not black and white as you wish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

In these cases, there is a genetic mess up. Any female with a Y chromosome has a syndrome. Things went wrong during development and something went wrong with their chromosomes. There are no “normal” females with a Y chromosome. These people are in a class by themselves.

So what are we supposed to do with them? We can't discriminate against people who are born with development issues. It is not like they want to be a female in a male dominated backward society.

[Anonymous]

Back to the origin of this thread:
It seems that Rowling has a lot of company with bullies who want to dictate what a woman should look like, ie. she's not a "real woman."

By trying to vociferously defend women-only spaces she's opened the misogynist trap of trying to force out women who don't meet JK Rowling-approved aesthetics for "women." Even if that person has been raised a woman her entire life in a deeply religious and conservative culture where women are 2nd class citizens and she's had to fight for every scrap.

Sad. Ironic. Hubristic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Where is your citation for Khalif being intersex?

The original chromosome tests, which even the boxing coach acknowledged in a French interview and the fact that Khalif withdrew their challenge with the boxing authority.

Which chromosome tests? Provide citations for all your gibberish. No test results have ever been released. The IBA won't even reveal the type of "test" they administered.

DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

It's not actually that rare. It's like 2% of the population. And to the extent it provides an athletic advantage, they likely show up disproportionately among female athletes. Many elite female athletes have "manly" looks to them. I would not be surprised if a good number of female weightlifters, wrestlers, judo/taekwando, throwers, runners, etc. are intersex. For that matter, how do you know that Sydney McLaughlin is not intersex? Do you have her genetic tests? She's obviously pretty hot, but she's got a pretty square jawline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for those defending Rowling:

If an athlete with XX chromosomes produces much higher levels of testosterone than the average female (say, 2-3x higher) do you believe they should be allowed to participate in "women's" events in the Olympics or NCAA?

Plenty of track and field elite female athletes have higher testosterone levels, and they are prettier and more feminine than most of the keyboard warriors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

Are you a scientist? Because you are misreading this. It is binary. The only time it isn’t is when there is a mutation.

So people with mutations can’t be athletes?

NP. Of course, but there should be a separate category for them. It’s interesting in regards to whether physical size is a required advantage, it is always XY chromosomes competing in XX spaces and feeling entitled. You rarely if ever hear about XX chromosome people trying to competitively compete in XY personal spaces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

You literally cannot prove anything you just wrote. Khelif is a biological female, per her own words and her country's assertions. She's even lost boxing matches to other women! You would - maybe - have a point if she was undefeated.

There is a daily mail article that says otherwise. It’s looking like she may be XY. Unless you mean that her just saying it makes it so.

So what happens if she's XY but has female genitalia and natural secondary characteristics (eg, breasts, hips, etc)?

What will you people do?

Please specify the specific medical disorder you are referring to and we will discuss.

46,XY

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/swyer-syndrome/

These people do not experience male puberty, have a uterus, and can birth babies. They should compete with women.

Let us know when the boxer is diagnosed with this disorder.

People who can father children should not compete with women.