JK Rowling's gender policing finally caught up to her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Where is your citation for Khalif being intersex?

The original chromosome tests, which even the boxing coach acknowledged in a French interview and the fact that Khalif withdrew their challenge with the boxing authority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Re: Khelif, we don't know anything.

Re: Semenya--how does higher testosterone give her a bigger advantage than other characteristics? Take height--being shorter is an advantage in women's gymnastics. The average height is 5'1". But women in general...5'4".

There only about 2800 ppl in the world over 7' tall, and 40 of them are in the NBA? Is that fair to the vast majority of players who are not in that 0.000038% and can never be?

Should men with very low testosterone participate in women's sports?

We are getting too deep in the weeds because there is no level playing field. Most of these elite athletes are elite because they have super uncommon characteristics. Michael Phelps foot size and lung capacity. Venus and Serena's extreme musculature. Joel Embiid's height.

SO what is the purpose of all this level testing of hormones?

To gatekeep who gets to be a "woman" and punish those who do not conform to societal norms. Fin.

Do you think women’s sports should be separate from men’s? How do you propose we divide them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know intersex people aren’t actually rare right? It’s the same percentage as redheads. You definitely know some intersex people even if you haven’t examined their genitals.

This is fake news.

It's more common that we think. It's 1-2/100 people. Guaranteed many athletes are intersex but "flying under the radar."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Re: Khelif, we don't know anything.

Re: Semenya--how does higher testosterone give her a bigger advantage than other characteristics? Take height--being shorter is an advantage in women's gymnastics. The average height is 5'1". But women in general...5'4".

There only about 2800 ppl in the world over 7' tall, and 40 of them are in the NBA? Is that fair to the vast majority of players who are not in that 0.000038% and can never be?

Should men with very low testosterone participate in women's sports?

We are getting too deep in the weeds because there is no level playing field. Most of these elite athletes are elite because they have super uncommon characteristics. Michael Phelps foot size and lung capacity. Venus and Serena's extreme musculature. Joel Embiid's height.

SO what is the purpose of all this level testing of hormones?

To gatekeep who gets to be a "woman" and punish those who do not conform to societal norms. Fin.

Do you think women’s sports should be separate from men’s? How do you propose we divide them?

We do it the way we always have before all this genetic testing. It was working fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Where is your citation for Khalif being intersex?

The original chromosome tests, which even the boxing coach acknowledged in a French interview and the fact that Khalif withdrew their challenge with the boxing authority.

Which chromosome tests? Provide citations for all your gibberish. No test results have ever been released. The IBA won't even reveal the type of "test" they administered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Re: Khelif, we don't know anything.

Re: Semenya--how does higher testosterone give her a bigger advantage than other characteristics? Take height--being shorter is an advantage in women's gymnastics. The average height is 5'1". But women in general...5'4".

There only about 2800 ppl in the world over 7' tall, and 40 of them are in the NBA? Is that fair to the vast majority of players who are not in that 0.000038% and can never be?

Should men with very low testosterone participate in women's sports?

We are getting too deep in the weeds because there is no level playing field. Most of these elite athletes are elite because they have super uncommon characteristics. Michael Phelps foot size and lung capacity. Venus and Serena's extreme musculature. Joel Embiid's height.

SO what is the purpose of all this level testing of hormones?

To gatekeep who gets to be a "woman" and punish those who do not conform to societal norms. Fin.

Do you think women’s sports should be separate from men’s? How do you propose we divide them?

We do it the way we always have before all this genetic testing. It was working fine.

I mean, it's pretty amazing that they just assume there were not intersex and transgender athletes competing before the age of modern genetic testing.

Of course there were! They flew under the radar. They "passed" for whichever gender category they claimed.

They probably also thought those female athletes were straight too lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

How about someone like Michael Phelps who has a rare body type - his arm span is longer than his height - that gives him an advantage over other male swimmers? That doesn’t seem fair now does it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

You literally cannot prove anything you just wrote. Khelif is a biological female, per her own words and her country's assertions. She's even lost boxing matches to other women! You would - maybe - have a point if she was undefeated.

There is a daily mail article that says otherwise. It’s looking like she may be XY. Unless you mean that her just saying it makes it so.

So what happens if she's XY but has female genitalia and natural secondary characteristics (eg, breasts, hips, etc)?

What will you people do?

Please specify the specific medical disorder you are referring to and we will discuss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Re: Khelif, we don't know anything.

Re: Semenya--how does higher testosterone give her a bigger advantage than other characteristics? Take height--being shorter is an advantage in women's gymnastics. The average height is 5'1". But women in general...5'4".

There only about 2800 ppl in the world over 7' tall, and 40 of them are in the NBA? Is that fair to the vast majority of players who are not in that 0.000038% and can never be?

Should men with very low testosterone participate in women's sports?

We are getting too deep in the weeds because there is no level playing field. Most of these elite athletes are elite because they have super uncommon characteristics. Michael Phelps foot size and lung capacity. Venus and Serena's extreme musculature. Joel Embiid's height.

SO what is the purpose of all this level testing of hormones?

To gatekeep who gets to be a "woman" and punish those who do not conform to societal norms. Fin.

Do you think women’s sports should be separate from men’s? How do you propose we divide them?

We do it the way we always have before all this genetic testing. It was working fine.

I mean, it's pretty amazing that they just assume there were not intersex and transgender athletes competing before the age of modern genetic testing.

Of course there were! They flew under the radar. They "passed" for whichever gender category they claimed.


When do you think women’s sports were created?
They probably also thought those female athletes were straight too lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Re: Khelif, we don't know anything.

Re: Semenya--how does higher testosterone give her a bigger advantage than other characteristics? Take height--being shorter is an advantage in women's gymnastics. The average height is 5'1". But women in general...5'4".

There only about 2800 ppl in the world over 7' tall, and 40 of them are in the NBA? Is that fair to the vast majority of players who are not in that 0.000038% and can never be?

Should men with very low testosterone participate in women's sports?

We are getting too deep in the weeds because there is no level playing field. Most of these elite athletes are elite because they have super uncommon characteristics. Michael Phelps foot size and lung capacity. Venus and Serena's extreme musculature. Joel Embiid's height.

SO what is the purpose of all this level testing of hormones?

The purpose is to determine male/femaleness.

There are many cases of distorted hormones, they are not the defining criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

Are you a scientist? Because you are misreading this. It is binary. The only time it isn’t is when there is a mutation.

It's binary, except when it's not binary. So it's not actually binary.

You can keep saying this, but that doesn’t make it true. It is binary. There are only two options. An error in transcription or translation is just that - an error.

So you are saying that someone is a man, a woman, or an “error”? First, that’s not binary (bi meaning two, and even if “error” were an okay think to say about a human being, it’s still a third option) . Second— WTF is wrong with you?

An intersex person is 100% an error of nature. I am a scientist. It is what it is. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be here, or don’t count. But they are literal errors. Sorry that hurts your feelings.

+1
It’s hilarious that all the “trust the science!” people are all about science UNTIL science says something that disagrees with their feelz.

Then it becomes “it’s complicated” or “no one can really say for certain”.

Yeah, NO.

I think the objection is calling people with these "abnormalities" abnormal. Or a mistake. Or an error. It's mean. Unnecessary. And rude af. Would you call someone with other "abnormalities" resulting in physical or mental disabilities a mistake?

No. You wouldn't.

I wouldn’t be shocked if they do.

Scientifically I absolutely do. Why does that shock you?

You would tell parents of a child with Downs Syndrome that their kid is a mistake?

Of course not. I’m doing it here. And I would anywhere else science was being discussed with other scientists.

Having a discussion in a lab, hospital or university (or online message board) about genetic mutations is different than speaking with a parent about their child. I thought that would go without saying.

You can rest easy now.

There are parents on here with children with Downs Syndrome. It’s a parenting forum, not medical.

Again, not shocked at all that bigots don’t mind being a dick.

I’m a scientist, not a bigot.

I care more about facts than feelings.

Always have, always will.

Ooohhh, someone's social challenges slip is showing.

Wouldn't be so sad if you were actually good at science, but, you know.

Believe me what I’ve forgotten about science you’ll never know.

And you’ll always be a dick. Proudly, it seems.

Yep. That comes with having facts on my side.

For this to be a brag, you have to actually know what you are talking about. Otherwise it's just called being a dick.

Oh I am. You know, having a science degree and all. I know very well. Clearly more than the progressives on this thread.

What's your degree? I have an MD and a PhD. This is my bread and butter.

If you have an MD and a PhD and you think that sex is not binary then something went wrong somewhere. You are most certainly on the fringe with this one.

Evolution says otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I do feel its complex to allow trans women into women's sports. But that's not the issue with Imane. A lot of people misunderstood what was going on and apologized once they realized they were wrong. Has Rowling apologized for mischaracterizing the situation? Has Musk?

What did Rowling get wrong? Be specific.

Troll.

Sounds like you can’t find anything incorrect about her statements. You just hate her because she supports women. Typical.

Regardless if Khelif actually is a genetic anomaly, she was raised as a woman in a country where women have limited options. She had to fight tooth and nail to be a woman in boxing. She experienced gender discrimination.

She has lived the life of a woman with all the parts and baggage. And YET..Rowling dismissed all that, all the struggles she supposedly cares about, because Khelif MAY have a DSD, which is nowhere near the same as being a man.

So she only seems to care about certain kinds of women, which is ERFish (not TERFish).

Depending the DSD, Khelif would still be male even if his parents call him she and put him in dresses. Having a DSD does not make one non male necessarily.

I love how cons are so verklempt about trans people and think it should be illegal but then they decide a woman doesn’t look feminine enough and insist she needs to change her gender identity because of that. Doesn’t matter if her genitals don’t conform to the gender you want to assign her, or how she’s lived her entire life, you want her to become trans simply because of her appearance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this as a legitimate question because I’m not sure if this is true or not but I have read this online. Some people are claiming that she has had genetic testing that indicates she has a Y chromosome even though she presents as woman. Is this true and if so does that provide any meaningful advantages over women with XX chromosomes? Obviously, that doesn’t change her gender identity and people should respectful of that, but fairness in women’s sports is arguably separate from gender identity in some circumstances. I feel bad for her because she is from a very conservative country where most people are not accepting of LGBT rights. This discussion about her being a “man” likely creates a risk to her safety when she visits Algeria.

The level of testosterone might bring a bigger advantage than just Y chromosome. Some elite female atheletes naturally have higher levels and yes, it helps their performance (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S003193842300269X#:~:text=%5B9%5D%20who%2C%20after%20analyzing,levels%20%3C1.9%20nmol%2Fl.). However there is no way to draw a line and say if a woman's testosterone level is higher than this, she can't compete as female? It would be so arbitrary and absurd.

Her case shows sex is a spectrum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

You literally cannot prove anything you just wrote. Khelif is a biological female, per her own words and her country's assertions. She's even lost boxing matches to other women! You would - maybe - have a point if she was undefeated.

There is a daily mail article that says otherwise. It’s looking like she may be XY. Unless you mean that her just saying it makes it so.

So what happens if she's XY but has female genitalia and natural secondary characteristics (eg, breasts, hips, etc)?

What will you people do?

Please specify the specific medical disorder you are referring to and we will discuss.

46,XY

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/swyer-syndrome/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know intersex people aren’t actually rare right? It’s the same percentage as redheads. You definitely know some intersex people even if you haven’t examined their genitals.

This is fake news.

It's more common that we think. It's 1-2/100 people. Guaranteed many athletes are intersex but "flying under the radar."

False. This fake news includes diagnoses such as PCOS which is ridiculous to categorize with “intersex” DSDs.