Abortion messaging needs to change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m an atheist and agree with you to a large extent. I am personally and politically supportive of full abortion rights—but I live in reality. Abortion is scary, sad and unfortunate for most people in the world. It should be rare. It shouldn’t be glorified.

The left’s insistence that none of this can be said out loud cost us Roe. And telling every woman who empathizes with a fetus that she is against women’s rights—when viability is getting earlier and earlier…it makes no sense. Anyone who has had a miscarriage or seen a fetal scan knows it’s natural to attach emotion to abortion. When the tiny percentage of women who really don’t feel anything regarding abortion (Chelsea handler etc) become the dominant voice, you lose credibility.

What are you even talking about? That is 100% not what caused the loss of Roe. If this were about abortion, rather than control, the White Christian Nationalists wouldn’t also be going after contraception. Oh wait, unless you also believe that the only sex that should occur is that between and husband and wife and only for the express purpose of procreation. In which case, we’re not going to agree and this is futile. But let me tell you, if they get a chance they’ll try to legislate this, too.

Clearly you aren’t a Democrat and think “the left” is Chelsea Handler. Wtf. Since when was she anyone of import? What’s the point of this conversation? People who believe life begins at conception and that any abortion is murder aren’t going to be swayed by anything, and especially if you think Chelsea Handler speaks for anyone or anything.

Also, keep out of our bedrooms and bodies. Don’t start none won’t be none.

I’m a divorced middle age feminist and I don’t think men are all that, but even I don’t see how some nutjobs are going to pull off banning contraception when at least 90% of men will not want it banned. Most men nowadays are not clamoring to have tons of children, and prefer for their female partners to have paying jobs.

70% of America supports Roe and look what happened to that.

If Roe really had the support you think it does, people would be voting the guidelines into law nation wide. Your issue is simple, support for Roe’s terms aren’t as widespread nationwide as you think they are. They are in some areas of the US and not in others.

They are supported by a majority in both blue states and red states.

Again, if you had the votes you think you did, the laws in states like Mississippi would be different. That’s how representative democracy works.

Representative Democracy as defined by gerrymandered voting districts. And a Presidential election by electoral college, which gives outsized power to certain states and regions. I’m not suggesting it’s wrong, but don’t claim that the reason this has unfolded in the manner I has is because it’s anything other than a minority having outsized power. And now you’re going to feel the majority backlash.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Christian liberals (priests, even) testified in support of legalized abortion in the Illinois legislature. The idea that it’s not compatible with a hypothetical “liberal Christian” perspective is one of your own making.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/12/curtis-boyd-abortion-clergy-consultation-service-preacher-texas-new-mexico-roe/

Read up on the clergy consultation service network. Presumably Christianity hasn’t changed— just the people who claim to represent it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m an atheist and agree with you to a large extent. I am personally and politically supportive of full abortion rights—but I live in reality. Abortion is scary, sad and unfortunate for most people in the world. It should be rare. It shouldn’t be glorified.

The left’s insistence that none of this can be said out loud cost us Roe. And telling every woman who empathizes with a fetus that she is against women’s rights—when viability is getting earlier and earlier…it makes no sense. Anyone who has had a miscarriage or seen a fetal scan knows it’s natural to attach emotion to abortion. When the tiny percentage of women who really don’t feel anything regarding abortion (Chelsea handler etc) become the dominant voice, you lose credibility.

No one made Chelsea Handler the spokesperson for all women. She is free to share her experience. Which is very different than the experience of millions of other women. We all have our own individual circumstances.

DP but I think you might be missing the point. Of course we all have our own individual circumstances. Most women’s understanding about their bodies, their rights, their feelings about pregnancy is deep and nuanced. But the narrative that goes out into the world is dominated by the loudest voices, even if those voices are not nuanced and do not represent the more normative experiences. And that is ultimately hurting us.

That is happening with a lot of issues that people care about, not just this one.

Disagree. I think many women know exactly how critical it is to protect reproductive rights. They don't actually need any messaging at all from either side and they don't necessarily even listen to any loud voices.

That is why election after election since the fall of roe has gone more blue than the clueless loud voices predicted. The voters are showing up and quietly going about their voting business and trying to protect critical rights. It will happen once again in November.

I don’t think that poster was referring to women needing messaging. Women already know. It’s the people with less skin in the game (men, older people, rich people) who need to hear better messaging. When the loudest voice they hear is someone like Handler, that is going to affect how they feel about it.

What kind of men, older people, rich people are hearing Handler more loudly than actual policy makers, the women presumably in their lives? Come on. Messaging isn’t the problem. We did it that way for decades in which women’s access to abortion was systematically stripped away. And now we’re just mad and tired of being nice and going to vote accordingly. Deal with it. Not going to make ourselves small so that men can feel big, and hopefully agree to give us our rights. You’re asking us to put on a smile after they slap us across the face. Always with the victim blaming. Enough!

x100000

[Anonymous]

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI) on Thursday accused “the angry feminist movement” of emasculating men and said the U.S. should “work our way back” to 1960 if former President Donald Trump wins in November.

Grothman is not alone in his warped thinking. Pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

You are such a liar it's breathtaking.

[Anonymous]

Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases.

And yet 1 in 3 American women totally lack access to abortion.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/1-in-3-u-s-women-lack-access-to-abortion-care-after-end-of-roe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

Citation needed that “most” conservative politicians are willing to offer 16 week “amnesty”, because you seem to have made that up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

Ah, so that's why Texas, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida have...6 week bans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

Ah, so that's why Texas, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida have...6 week bans?

There is no red state where Republicans have proposed 12 or 16 week laws.

They are all about total bans, with phony exceptions for rape, incest and health of the mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

Ah, so that's why Texas, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida have...6 week bans?

There is no red state where Republicans have proposed 12 or 16 week laws.

They are all about total bans, with phony exceptions for rape, incest and health of the mother.

Republicans in North Carolina are poised to grant final passage to legislation as early as Thursday to ban abortion in the state after 12 weeks of pregnancy, a move that would significantly narrow the window for legal abortions but stop short of the more-restrictive bans that have been enacted in other Southern states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/02/abortion-north-carolina-ban-12-week/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

+1

Well put.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

+1

Well put.

That is not well put at all. Roe is a compromise. It is not abortion on demand. Abortion on demand up until birth is just a stupid right wing talking point.

Trump's comments at the debate were utter nonsense. He knows he is going down on this issue and is helpless to prevent it so just spews lies and garbage. Bye trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

+1

Well put.

That is not well put at all. Roe is a compromise. It is not abortion on demand. Abortion on demand up until birth is just a stupid right wing talking point.

Trump's comments at the debate were utter nonsense. He knows he is going down on this issue and is helpless to prevent it so just spews lies and garbage. Bye trump.

Roe wasn’t a compromise, it was an edict by unelected judges with no foundation in the constitution.

I think it’s funny you think Trump is going anywhere except back to the White House.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

Ah, so that's why Texas, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida have...6 week bans?

There is no red state where Republicans have proposed 12 or 16 week laws.

They are all about total bans, with phony exceptions for rape, incest and health of the mother.

Republicans in North Carolina are poised to grant final passage to legislation as early as Thursday to ban abortion in the state after 12 weeks of pregnancy, a move that would significantly narrow the window for legal abortions but stop short of the more-restrictive bans that have been enacted in other Southern states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/02/abortion-north-carolina-ban-12-week/

Only because they have a Democratic Governor and are barely over the threshold to be able to override his veto. Women in states that are more strongly Republican get no such quarter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have misunderstood Trump's position on abortion and the general conservative position. Very, very few conservatives believe that it's murder in all cases. And most are willing to compromise and make a 12 or 16 week total amnesty period to have abortions.

The leftists here are being clear with you. They will not compromise at all. They want abortion to be completely unregulated and consider any limitations for any reason at all to be a violation of women's rights. Women can and should be allowed to choose to abort for any reason at all, up til the point of birth, in their view. Take it or leave it. I used to be a democrat and eventually, I couldn't any more. On this and many other issues, I have moral lines that I'm not willing to cross.

+1

Well put.

Ok then help your friend out— where are these “most” conservatives allowing 12–16 weeks? Or are they a shared delusion?