Abortion messaging needs to change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Liberal Christian Woman. There are many of us out there, and we are not even rare. We just aren’t being heard or considered on the topic of abortion, so every now and then I feel the need to point out the fact that we exist. I am not asking anyone to agree with my beliefs. I am just asking that you consider the fact that the messaging on both sides does not reflect the beliefs of so many of us. It is (unbelievably!) a close election, and here’s a demographic that is untapped.

The right is telling us that abortion is always murder. Period. Some say there are exceptions, but their policies do not reflect that. Democrats say that abortion=women’s rights, women’s health. Period. Many of us are somewhere in the middle.

I honestly wish the democrats would stop talking about abortion. Anyone who is open to understanding how disastrous the GOP is for women’s rights, health, and safety has already turned. the women who are left in the GOP will never see any gray area when it comes to abortion. They see it as the baby’s right to life in all circumstances. This is a deeply rooted, religious belief, and no policy or politician will change it. As a Christian Democrat, I don’t entirely disagree with them, but only when it comes to abortion based solely on lifestyle choice. I wish we could find a way to separate abortion as a lifestyle choice from the rest of it (health of mom and baby, rape and incest, family planning, procedures like D&Cs). But we lump it all together. D’s messaging really stinks when it comes to women’s rights. They let the GOP ramble on about 3rd trimester and post-birth abortions without even attempting to shut that down. I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp. Many Christians are. The message needs to be that the decision is made by women with input from their chosen support group, which could include partner, family, doctor, clergy. Yes, women need to be told by democrats that they support them leaning on clergy instead of politicians.

In all other aspects, I agree with Democrats - BC, women’s rights, abortion due to rape, incest, or medical conditions.

So many of us are perplexed by the following Trump has among Christians. Biden has been a devout Catholic his entire life. Trump isn’t even a real Christian and in no way lives in the spirit of Jesus, to put it mildly. But many Christians see it this way - Abortion is simply worse than anything he has done. Because they believe abortion=murder, and it doesn’t get any worse than murder. It is a very black and white issue for them. But a lot of us Christians do not fall in line with this. We just need messaging that considers those of us in the middle when it comes to abortion.

I grew up in the deep south with "Christian Democrats" and I realized, as a child, they were neither Christian nor Democratic. Christian Democrats, in my opinion and experience, are the most misogynistic of all and the far right evangelicals are proving me right.

Your religious beliefs are yours and you have no right to force your misogynistic, racist, fascist beliefs on anyone else.

Every woman has the Good given right to decide what is right for her body and her health WITHOUT
RELIGIOUS BIGOTS INTERFERENCE.

[Anonymous]

I don't need a medical professional to help me decide whether I want an abortion. I only need a medical professional to (a) perform surgical D&C to abort, or (b) prescribe medication to abort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I honestly wish the democrats would stop talking about abortion. Anyone who is open to understanding how disastrous the GOP is for women’s rights, health, and safety has already turned.

It would be difficult for you to be more wrong about this. The Democrats didn’t talk about abortion enough in the previous decades and that’s what led us to where we are now. And public opinion has been turning and continues to turn against the right wing’s total bans, which produce terrible health outcomes for women with problematic pregnancies and is already resulting in a shortage of doctors of all specialties in those states.

Also, anyone who thinks they have a hot take on abortion here, have you read the Roe v Wade overturned thread? Because I guarantee your great wisdom has been discussed there.

+1

OP blaming the Democrats for the lies of the Republicans is big “what was she wearing” energy.

Op here. I am not blaming the democrats. This post was actually prompted by another post asking what democrats should do differently in their campaign. This is just what I wish they would do to improve messaging - speak to those of us who don’t see abortion as a black and white issue - like I said, untapped demographic.

No, you’re not an “untapped demographic.” Do you trust women? Do you think they deserve the basic human right of bodily autonomy? Then you should vote pro choice and do with your own body as your conscience dictates. That’s your answer. You took a thousand words to scold the Democrats for your inability to feel okay with letting women run their own lives.

This is the fundamental disconnect you will never understand because you don't make an effort to. Prolife people have the sincerely held belief that abortion is about TWO people, not just the woman involved. You can say that this is just the patriarch wanting to keep women pregnant in the kitchen, but all that tells me is that you don't know any prolife people and have never engaged with them, because that's not how they think.

Thank you! This is what I was trying to say. There is a segment of Christian voters who are, and always will be, single-issue voters. No democrat will ever get their vote, so why even try? But there are a lot of Christians who are more moderate on the issue and could be swayed.

I agree that my fellow democrats could do better at trying to understand their viewpoint. While I am not staunchly anti-abortion, I did grow up in the Bible Belt. My church was relatively liberal, but I often attended other churches with friends or for events. Most of my extended family are conservative Christians. I heard a lot of religious conversations. Because of this, I understand how this becomes so deeply engrained in so many people. Even if I don’t agree with them, I understand how they arrived at their viewpoint and why it is more important than anything else to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I am saddened to see the responses from my fellow democrats. I justcrefead my post and I think I was clear.

I stated that I am not asking anyone to agree with me

I stated that I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

I never said that I want legislation that makes lifestyle abortions illegal.

I am simply saying that, in this campaign season, democrats could reach a whole new demographic by just acknowledging that it is not so black and white for everyone.

We are democrats and we believe everyone is entitled to religious freedom and their own values…correct? Then why do some of you attack people who express any level of Christian values?

I am not at all a Christian and, in fact, I believe that religion has caused more harm in the world than good. However, I 100% agree with your main point OP: "The message needs to be that the decision is made by women". It's simple to me: all women should have the right to make their own personal decision and the government/laws should be no where to be found in the decision-making process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Liberal Christian Woman. There are many of us out there, and we are not even rare. We just aren’t being heard or considered on the topic of abortion, so every now and then I feel the need to point out the fact that we exist. I am not asking anyone to agree with my beliefs. I am just asking that you consider the fact that the messaging on both sides does not reflect the beliefs of so many of us. It is (unbelievably!) a close election, and here’s a demographic that is untapped.

The right is telling us that abortion is always murder. Period. Some say there are exceptions, but their policies do not reflect that. Democrats say that abortion=women’s rights, women’s health. Period. Many of us are somewhere in the middle.

I honestly wish the democrats would stop talking about abortion. Anyone who is open to understanding how disastrous the GOP is for women’s rights, health, and safety has already turned. the women who are left in the GOP will never see any gray area when it comes to abortion. They see it as the baby’s right to life in all circumstances. This is a deeply rooted, religious belief, and no policy or politician will change it. As a Christian Democrat, I don’t entirely disagree with them, but only when it comes to abortion based solely on lifestyle choice. I wish we could find a way to separate abortion as a lifestyle choice from the rest of it (health of mom and baby, rape and incest, family planning, procedures like D&Cs). But we lump it all together. D’s messaging really stinks when it comes to women’s rights. They let the GOP ramble on about 3rd trimester and post-birth abortions without even attempting to shut that down. I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp. Many Christians are. The message needs to be that the decision is made by women with input from their chosen support group, which could include partner, family, doctor, clergy. Yes, women need to be told by democrats that they support them leaning on clergy instead of politicians.

In all other aspects, I agree with Democrats - BC, women’s rights, abortion due to rape, incest, or medical conditions.

So many of us are perplexed by the following Trump has among Christians. Biden has been a devout Catholic his entire life. Trump isn’t even a real Christian and in no way lives in the spirit of Jesus, to put it mildly. But many Christians see it this way - Abortion is simply worse than anything he has done. Because they believe abortion=murder, and it doesn’t get any worse than murder. It is a very black and white issue for them. But a lot of us Christians do not fall in line with this. We just need messaging that considers those of us in the middle when it comes to abortion.

I grew up in the deep south with "Christian Democrats" and I realized, as a child, they were neither Christian nor Democratic. Christian Democrats, in my opinion and experience, are the most misogynistic of all and the far right evangelicals are proving me right.

Your religious beliefs are yours and you have no right to force your misogynistic, racist, fascist beliefs on anyone else.

Every woman has the Good given right to decide what is right for her body and her health WITHOUT
RELIGIOUS BIGOTS INTERFERENCE.

Wow. Unhinged. Please point to the part where I tried to push my religious views on you and said you shouldn’t have the right to decide. In fact, I said the exact opposite. Repeatedly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about how it was for 50 years? Generally legal until viability; then after viability, subject to restrictions on a state-by-state basis.

If you believe abortion is immoral, then don't get one. But don't impose your religious beliefs on those who don't share them.

I've never understood this line of thinking. We legislate all sorts of things because we believe them to be immoral. That's like saying "don't think robbery is immoral, don't rob!". Put yourself in the position who believes this is murder. Why would they stand by and allow murder to be legal?

I'm pro choice by the way. But I understand the other side well enough to know what a specious argument this is.

What’s specious is one side declaring they are “pro life” and against murder but also pro death penalty and against saving a woman’s life over an unborn baby.

I think you should speak to more pro life people. The ones I know are all against the death penalty and absolutely agree with abortion to save a women's life. In fact that is the official policy of the Catholic Church and catholic hospitals.

Women are bleeding out and going septic in Catholic hospitals the same as they are in non Catholic hospitals.

Show me one case of a woman dying in an American catholic hospital because of lack of an abortion.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/01/15/abortion-high-risk-pregnancy-yeni-glick

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, you don’t get to separate “lifestyle choice” from the rest of it.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I am saddened to see the responses from my fellow democrats. I justcrefead my post and I think I was clear.

I stated that I am not asking anyone to agree with me

I stated that I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

I never said that I want legislation that makes lifestyle abortions illegal.

I am simply saying that, in this campaign season, democrats could reach a whole new demographic by just acknowledging that it is not so black and white for everyone.

We are democrats and we believe everyone is entitled to religious freedom and their own values…correct? Then why do some of you attack people who express any level of Christian values?

I am not at all a Christian and, in fact, I believe that religion has caused more harm in the world than good. However, I 100% agree with your main point OP: "The message needs to be that the decision is made by women". It's simple to me: all women should have the right to make their own personal decision and the government/laws should be no where to be found in the decision-making process.

THANK YOU! You are one of the few that seem to understand that this is what I am trying to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about how it was for 50 years? Generally legal until viability; then after viability, subject to restrictions on a state-by-state basis.

If you believe abortion is immoral, then don't get one. But don't impose your religious beliefs on those who don't share them.

I've never understood this line of thinking. We legislate all sorts of things because we believe them to be immoral. That's like saying "don't think robbery is immoral, don't rob!". Put yourself in the position who believes this is murder. Why would they stand by and allow murder to be legal?

I'm pro choice by the way. But I understand the other side well enough to know what a specious argument this is.

Because the "abortion is murder" belief is a minority moral belief in our country. We are a democracy where our laws should reflect the morals of the majority.

The majority believe robbery is immoral, so it's illegal. The majority do not believe eating animals is immoral - although a minority does - so it is not illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle on abortion is so offensive to women. It implies that a bunch of old men who legislate things have to protect women from just getting abortions willy-nilly, because they want to fit back into their bikinis or they want their wine time and change their mind on pregnancy.

Unplanned pregnancies happen, birth control fails, partner, sabotage birth control, rape happens, the whole deal. So there needs to be legal access to abortion. When you Start talking about the middle it starts to get into that some abortions are criminal and that’s when we start getting into the land of miscarrying becomes a crime.

For women later in the pregnancies… the middle Implies that women are changing their mind willy-nilly, and not seeking an abortion because their life their future fertility is in danger or their babies Life is in danger.

Why can’t we women and medical professionals make these decisions?!?! You think you’re being rational but you sound insane and misogynistic.

Op here. Forgive me if I was unclear. I ABSOLUTELY think women should make this decision along with their support network, if they choose. That’s why I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

Legal - women and doctors should not need to worry about being arrested for abortion or suspected abortion.

Safe - goes along with legal. Since women are trusted to make this choice, back-alley abortions become unnecessary.

Rare - The need for abortion is minimized through many avenues - access to BC, education, counseling, promote adaption

My issue is with the messaging. I wish democrats would acknowledge that many Americans think abortion should be legal, but it is not always in line with our personal values. So it is off-putting when they oversimplify and imply that I am against women’s rights if I do not believe women should get abortions as a lifestyle choice. I am not asking for legislation to reflect my views. That would be a slippery slope. I am asking to be considered in the messaging.

Your personal values are exclusively yours. Stop force-feeding them to the rest of us. You included in the messaging because no one if advocating that any woman be forced to have an abortion even if the fetus isn't viable. If you don't want an abortion then don't have one but stop butting into another woman's right to abort for whatever is her reason to abort

As for your "shock" at some of the responses, get real. You posted your "liberal Christian" beliefs, and you truly expected that you wouldn't stir up alligators?!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Liberal Christian Woman. There are many of us out there, and we are not even rare. We just aren’t being heard or considered on the topic of abortion, so every now and then I feel the need to point out the fact that we exist. I am not asking anyone to agree with my beliefs. I am just asking that you consider the fact that the messaging on both sides does not reflect the beliefs of so many of us. It is (unbelievably!) a close election, and here’s a demographic that is untapped.

The right is telling us that abortion is always murder. Period. Some say there are exceptions, but their policies do not reflect that. Democrats say that abortion=women’s rights, women’s health. Period. Many of us are somewhere in the middle.

I honestly wish the democrats would stop talking about abortion. Anyone who is open to understanding how disastrous the GOP is for women’s rights, health, and safety has already turned. the women who are left in the GOP will never see any gray area when it comes to abortion. They see it as the baby’s right to life in all circumstances. This is a deeply rooted, religious belief, and no policy or politician will change it. As a Christian Democrat, I don’t entirely disagree with them, but only when it comes to abortion based solely on lifestyle choice. I wish we could find a way to separate abortion as a lifestyle choice from the rest of it (health of mom and baby, rape and incest, family planning, procedures like D&Cs). But we lump it all together. D’s messaging really stinks when it comes to women’s rights. They let the GOP ramble on about 3rd trimester and post-birth abortions without even attempting to shut that down. I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp. Many Christians are. The message needs to be that the decision is made by women with input from their chosen support group, which could include partner, family, doctor, clergy. Yes, women need to be told by democrats that they support them leaning on clergy instead of politicians.

In all other aspects, I agree with Democrats - BC, women’s rights, abortion due to rape, incest, or medical conditions.

So many of us are perplexed by the following Trump has among Christians. Biden has been a devout Catholic his entire life. Trump isn’t even a real Christian and in no way lives in the spirit of Jesus, to put it mildly. But many Christians see it this way - Abortion is simply worse than anything he has done. Because they believe abortion=murder, and it doesn’t get any worse than murder. It is a very black and white issue for them. But a lot of us Christians do not fall in line with this. We just need messaging that considers those of us in the middle when it comes to abortion.

Well, bless your little ole pea-picking heart!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, you don’t get to separate “lifestyle choice” from the rest of it.

Why?

It can and should be separated as a topic of conversation around abortion. It should be acknowledged that some people think it is ok to get an abortion in some circumstances but not as a lifestyle choice and that this is why the decision should be personal and not political. Obviously it should not be against the law as a lifestyle choice and nobody on this thread has suggested that. Requiring doctors to be in the business of declaring whether an abortion is a lifestyle choice is not moral or feasible. This is why abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.

[Anonymous]

OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle on abortion is so offensive to women. It implies that a bunch of old men who legislate things have to protect women from just getting abortions willy-nilly, because they want to fit back into their bikinis or they want their wine time and change their mind on pregnancy.

Unplanned pregnancies happen, birth control fails, partner, sabotage birth control, rape happens, the whole deal. So there needs to be legal access to abortion. When you Start talking about the middle it starts to get into that some abortions are criminal and that’s when we start getting into the land of miscarrying becomes a crime.

For women later in the pregnancies… the middle Implies that women are changing their mind willy-nilly, and not seeking an abortion because their life their future fertility is in danger or their babies Life is in danger.

Why can’t we women and medical professionals make these decisions?!?! You think you’re being rational but you sound insane and misogynistic.

Op here. Forgive me if I was unclear. I ABSOLUTELY think women should make this decision along with their support network, if they choose. That’s why I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

Legal - women and doctors should not need to worry about being arrested for abortion or suspected abortion.

Safe - goes along with legal. Since women are trusted to make this choice, back-alley abortions become unnecessary.

Rare - The need for abortion is minimized through many avenues - access to BC, education, counseling, promote adaption

My issue is with the messaging. I wish democrats would acknowledge that many Americans think abortion should be legal, but it is not always in line with our personal values. So it is off-putting when they oversimplify and imply that I am against women’s rights if I do not believe women should get abortions as a lifestyle choice. I am not asking for legislation to reflect my views. That would be a slippery slope. I am asking to be considered in the messaging.

Your personal values are exclusively yours. Stop force-feeding them to the rest of us. You included in the messaging because no one if advocating that any woman be forced to have an abortion even if the fetus isn't viable. If you don't want an abortion then don't have one but stop butting into another woman's right to abort for whatever is her reason to abort

As for your "shock" at some of the responses, get real. You posted your "liberal Christian" beliefs, and you truly expected that you wouldn't stir up alligators?!!

The lack of reading comprehension on this thread is exhausting. I am a teacher, and this thread has convinced me to hit the “Finding the main idea and supporting details” standard extra hard this year. At what point did I butt into your right to have an abortion or say you shouldn’t be allowed that right. Are you making the assumption that I think my own set of values should become law? That’s the opposite of what I said. Go back and read my posts again. Focus this time. And why do you think I should not be allowed to express my Liberal Christian views on a political forum? Do you not believe in religious freedom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

I think you’re right about that. Apparently’ they think freedom of religion applies to everyone except Christians.