The helicopter parents won - a look back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sending my youngest to college next year. He got into a good school early addmission and all of my kids did well. But as I look back on this parenting experience it occurs to me that the kids with the fanaticaly involved parents did the best - academically and athletically.

When the kids were in early elementary school, I remember shaking my head as my fellow parents talked about advanced math tutoring for their kindergartener or plotting to get their second grader on the most competitive travel team. At the time it seemed so silly to chart out the life of a kid who still needed naps. However, looking at those kids now - those are the kids who are going on to play sports at top colleges.

My takeaway is that even if you are a committed free range parent - your kid is in a competitive environment competing for scarce opportunities to go to top schools and play for competitive school teams.

I’m not unhappy about how my kids turned out or their experience in high School. But I don’t think I realized the the decision not to push advanced math in grade school meant a diminished opportunity to go to Tech or UMD. I definitely didn’t realize that only doing town baseball (and not travel) meant that they wouldn’t make the highschool team.

It not like my kids were slouches. They played on at least one rec team every season. Swim team in the summer and got good grades and scores on standardized tests.

But I can’t shake the feeling that I’ve pushed harder our results would’ve been much better.

"Won" what exactly, OP???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You'll get a lot of varied opinions on this, OP, but I just want to push back on your assumption that everyone who is ambitious for their kid only does so for college admissions purposes.

They don't. I have a kid with learning disabilities and one who is gifted. I've had to adjust my parenting to cater to their specific needs, and out of necessity, one has required intensive tutoring and coaching, and the other has required early opportunities that have led them to achieve. But when they were little, I was not thinking AT ALL about the consequences on school placement. I had the larger goal of:
A making the SN kid more functional so he could be financially independent as an adult, and B, keeping my gifted kid challenged so she wouldn't be suicidal.

Now they're in college and high school, I see that yes, that sort of parenting has made them more marketable to certain colleges (or allowed my oldest to go to college in the first place!). But that was not the initial goal.

Also, I don't think we as parents can be someone we're not. In this educated part of the US full of subject-matter experts, a LOT of people are detail-oriented and able to multitask. It makes sense that they would be ready to pay a lot of attention to their children's education, while holding down a job and having hobbies. It also makes sense that other types of parents, who might be in the majority in other regions of the US, would feel like they're in the minority here. But there's nothing wrong with either approach! You love your kids, you taught them right from wrong, and the value of hard work, they're not going to fail! Maybe they're not at a selective college. They still have all their life in front of them.

I don't think you should have any regrets, and neither should I.

I relate to this so much. One child with special needs and another who seems gifted at a young age.


I grew up in a pressure cooker household. My mother was extremely on top of making sure we were in a great school, had private sport and music lessons, tutoring for anywhere that we weren’t getting 90s+ independently or were struggling to keep up in honors classes, tutoring for SATs and mentors for national science competitions etc. if we weren’t put in an honors class or the most accelerated reading group in 1st grade, we were tutored and retested to get in. Ours was also a loving home, but very achievement oriented, and there were four of us kids. I hoped I’d be the same way as a parent.

As a parent of a child with special needs now, my perspective has shifted. I’d give anything to have an average kid. I’m focused on ensuring they have a peaceful childhood, learning what activities they naturally are interested in, and helping them explore those passions. The academic stuff still matters, but mental health and balance have become my primary concerns.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It is all about inner drive. Full stop.
Beyond that, if you do happen to have a genuinely driven kid it is a parents' core responsibility to support them in time, money and encouragement to fulfill their potential.

Rationalize as many do, but any parent who does not do so has seriously done a disservice to their child.

My husband loves tennis. He never had formal tennis lessons. He did make his high school tennis team. He would never make the team around here but back in the early nineties, being athletic and able to hit a tennis ball was enough.

My kids have played tennis since preschool. They played daily during Covid. We have the resources to provide them with the right coaching. A kid who is playing for fun has no chance against my kid who has played almost every day since being able to hold a racquet.

And who really cares? The commodification of sports/intense focus on success in sports as the end is doing more harm than good for your kids. They're burning out, getting injured, suffering mental health, and parents are overspending chasing the delusion that they can mold their kid into an athlete when the ultimate goal should be enjoying the process of sports. Your unathletic but well coached tennis player is not going to play in the U.S. Open and it's weird and unhinged to compare him to a casual for parental bragging rights

Truth right here

It sounds like a defeatist sad sack mentality. Your kid will never be good so why bother even trying? But, how would you know without trying? There are so many good life lessons in the process. Why would you discourage a kid from trying their best, setting goals, challenging themselves? What's the alternative? Sounds like it's doing nothing and just hating on everyone else.

There's a huge difference between pushing a kid to try their best as a process to develop the kids and teach them life lessons vs pushing a kid beyond what's reasonable/healthy so they can reach a pie in the sky elitist goal. This whole conversation started with an OP lamenting that their seemingly well-adjusted, healthy and happy kids enjoyed a peaceful life and got into good schools but not ivies or aren't playing on scholarship. It's borderline sickness to be disappointed in your child if they don't achieve a status that's reserved for approximately 1-2% of the population.

We had a different read on the OP. OP seemed to think by casually playing rec you could walk onto the baseball team in high school. Turns out that wasn't the case. And then you're taking it to the furthest extreme to mean that OP expected a D1 baseball scholarship by forcing them through all available means to do something they hated and had no talent for. Plenty of kids play youth sports and are happy doing it beyond a rec level without their parents forcing them or having a sickness. There's a whole middle ground between doing nothing and expecting to be elite.

I don't think our read was that different. I think the OP provided their kids that middle ground of playing youth sports and the kids being happy with it. Unless a child shows natural ability AND a desire to throw their life into sports That middle ground SHOULD be the end all be all.

OP's position seems to be (and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong) that they somehow failed because they didn't push their kid for a D1 scholarship despite it sounding like their kids are doing well. It's the comparison to an highlight elite percent of athletes/academics that is robbing OP of the joy she should have in raising kids that are on track to be successful and she did it in a way that worked for her family. Strive a hard as you want but it's the process of striving that's more valuable than a predetermined result (uber-elite college or D1 scholarship)

That’s silly. As long as they try that’s what is important.

Actually what the OP is saying is "as along as they try that's what is important" was a silly attitude and she wished she had realized it sooner.

FWIW I agree with OP and we have had the same regrets they expressed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It is all about inner drive. Full stop.
Beyond that, if you do happen to have a genuinely driven kid it is a parents' core responsibility to support them in time, money and encouragement to fulfill their potential.

Rationalize as many do, but any parent who does not do so has seriously done a disservice to their child.

My husband loves tennis. He never had formal tennis lessons. He did make his high school tennis team. He would never make the team around here but back in the early nineties, being athletic and able to hit a tennis ball was enough.

My kids have played tennis since preschool. They played daily during Covid. We have the resources to provide them with the right coaching. A kid who is playing for fun has no chance against my kid who has played almost every day since being able to hold a racquet.

And who really cares? The commodification of sports/intense focus on success in sports as the end is doing more harm than good for your kids. They're burning out, getting injured, suffering mental health, and parents are overspending chasing the delusion that they can mold their kid into an athlete when the ultimate goal should be enjoying the process of sports. Your unathletic but well coached tennis player is not going to play in the U.S. Open and it's weird and unhinged to compare him to a casual for parental bragging rights

Truth right here

It sounds like a defeatist sad sack mentality. Your kid will never be good so why bother even trying? But, how would you know without trying? There are so many good life lessons in the process. Why would you discourage a kid from trying their best, setting goals, challenging themselves? What's the alternative? Sounds like it's doing nothing and just hating on everyone else.

There's a huge difference between pushing a kid to try their best as a process to develop the kids and teach them life lessons vs pushing a kid beyond what's reasonable/healthy so they can reach a pie in the sky elitist goal. This whole conversation started with an OP lamenting that their seemingly well-adjusted, healthy and happy kids enjoyed a peaceful life and got into good schools but not ivies or aren't playing on scholarship. It's borderline sickness to be disappointed in your child if they don't achieve a status that's reserved for approximately 1-2% of the population.

We had a different read on the OP. OP seemed to think by casually playing rec you could walk onto the baseball team in high school. Turns out that wasn't the case. And then you're taking it to the furthest extreme to mean that OP expected a D1 baseball scholarship by forcing them through all available means to do something they hated and had no talent for. Plenty of kids play youth sports and are happy doing it beyond a rec level without their parents forcing them or having a sickness. There's a whole middle ground between doing nothing and expecting to be elite.

I don't think our read was that different. I think the OP provided their kids that middle ground of playing youth sports and the kids being happy with it. Unless a child shows natural ability AND a desire to throw their life into sports That middle ground SHOULD be the end all be all.

OP's position seems to be (and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong) that they somehow failed because they didn't push their kid for a D1 scholarship despite it sounding like their kids are doing well. It's the comparison to an highlight elite percent of athletes/academics that is robbing OP of the joy she should have in raising kids that are on track to be successful and she did it in a way that worked for her family. Strive a hard as you want but it's the process of striving that's more valuable than a predetermined result (uber-elite college or D1 scholarship)

That’s silly. As long as they try that’s what is important.

Actually what the OP is saying is "as along as they try that's what is important" was a silly attitude and she wished she had realized it sooner.

FWIW I agree with OP and we have had the same regrets they expressed.

Only because of college admission?!?

Put your energies into figuring out how to help them find well-paying jobs they like. It starts with good internships.

That's your do-over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're seeing a small subset of kids who had super involved parents and "success," but you aren't seeing the many others who pushed just as hard but didn't quite achieve that "success."

Agree. Confirmation bias is real. OP is only seeing the products of intensive parenting who made it through to the end of HS, but not the kids who burned out. Teen suicide rates will show you that intensive parenting is a lot like driving without a seatbelt -- *most* of the time you'll be fine.

https://madelinelevine.com/books/the-price-of-privilege/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're seeing a small subset of kids who had super involved parents and "success," but you aren't seeing the many others who pushed just as hard but didn't quite achieve that "success."

Agree. Confirmation bias is real. OP is only seeing the products of intensive parenting who made it through to the end of HS, but not the kids who burned out. Teen suicide rates will show you that intensive parenting is a lot like driving without a seatbelt -- *most* of the time you'll be fine.

https://madelinelevine.com/books/the-price-of-privilege/

Yes. Definitely worth serious thought.

When I was college-aged in the 80s, an acquaintance's little brother committed suicide by OD'ing at home. He was a top student at a "W" school, Yale-bound, and a legacy from an affluent family. Story wasn't fully shared but seemed to be of the "felt empty, meaningless achievements" line of thinking. I spent a toxic 7th grade year in a "W" school feeder so I've always had the antennas up for what achievement culture does to some kids. It's why I am willing to "settle for good enough".

I believe the best time to make gains and pour on the effort is in college and early career. Young adulthood. Not in childhood.

[Anonymous]

To OP's original post, I have the exact same feeling. I had no idea that only doing swim 2 days a week and summer meant my child would never make the high school team (which is apparently reserved for future Olympians). Similarly so many other doors are closed because I was afraid of being a tiger mom or pushing too hard or whatever. But those kids are all excelling and playing on teams and taking advanced courses. I don't think the problem is that we didn't push (I don't actually think that's good for kids) so much as that our system rewards that kind of parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To OP's original post, I have the exact same feeling. I had no idea that only doing swim 2 days a week and summer meant my child would never make the high school team (which is apparently reserved for future Olympians). Similarly so many other doors are closed because I was afraid of being a tiger mom or pushing too hard or whatever. But those kids are all excelling and playing on teams and taking advanced courses. I don't think the problem is that we didn't push (I don't actually think that's good for kids) so much as that our system rewards that kind of parenting.

Why does your kid need to be on the high school swim team? Is the real problem that there aren’t rec teams that kids can be on to enjoy swimming? Or do you feel like you need HS swimming on your kid’s resume for college apps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To OP's original post, I have the exact same feeling. I had no idea that only doing swim 2 days a week and summer meant my child would never make the high school team (which is apparently reserved for future Olympians). Similarly so many other doors are closed because I was afraid of being a tiger mom or pushing too hard or whatever. But those kids are all excelling and playing on teams and taking advanced courses. I don't think the problem is that we didn't push (I don't actually think that's good for kids) so much as that our system rewards that kind of parenting.

I posted previously about my 3 kids playing tennis. 1 kid is a far superior tennis player than my other 2 kids. We gave the other 2 kids the same opportunities and would have supported them the same. We didn’t necessarily push one harder than the others. My tennis playing kid is also the best student and just a very focused kid.

I also have two super social kids who care much more about their friends. My middle kid is athletic but he plays too many sports and not as focused. He is not as academically focused and I doubt his college prospects will be as good at my oldest. We have spent the most time and energy trying to parent this kid but the outcome isn’t the same. Kids are individuals.

[Anonymous]

We always told our slightly above average athletic kids that if they showed commitment (practicing in the offseason), we'd pay for private training. One did and one didn't, but they both made their high school varsity basketball teams. Sometimes it's luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To OP's original post, I have the exact same feeling. I had no idea that only doing swim 2 days a week and summer meant my child would never make the high school team (which is apparently reserved for future Olympians). Similarly so many other doors are closed because I was afraid of being a tiger mom or pushing too hard or whatever. But those kids are all excelling and playing on teams and taking advanced courses. I don't think the problem is that we didn't push (I don't actually think that's good for kids) so much as that our system rewards that kind of parenting.

Why does your kid need to be on the high school swim team? Is the real problem that there aren’t rec teams that kids can be on to enjoy swimming? Or do you feel like you need HS swimming on your kid’s resume for college apps?

Because it is really fun/lifetime memories playing on a high school team - and unfortunate if you can’t experience that (if you want to)

[Anonymous]

Have not read all 18 pages but I’ll chime in To say that 3 HP I know actually had/ have issues with their dc - failure to launch, cannot handle stress of college, dropped out. All extremely bright, top test scores, schools of choice.

There has to be a balance in all of this. Support who they are, push or nudge sometimes, but they must learn to stand on their own, reap consequences, make decisions, learn to fail without parent involvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To OP's original post, I have the exact same feeling. I had no idea that only doing swim 2 days a week and summer meant my child would never make the high school team (which is apparently reserved for future Olympians). Similarly so many other doors are closed because I was afraid of being a tiger mom or pushing too hard or whatever. But those kids are all excelling and playing on teams and taking advanced courses. I don't think the problem is that we didn't push (I don't actually think that's good for kids) so much as that our system rewards that kind of parenting.

Why does your kid need to be on the high school swim team? Is the real problem that there aren’t rec teams that kids can be on to enjoy swimming? Or do you feel like you need HS swimming on your kid’s resume for college apps?

Because it is really fun/lifetime memories playing on a high school team - and unfortunate if you can’t experience that (if you want to)

I have a kid who will be borderline for the basketball team. He loves to play basketball. I know he will be devastated if he doesn’t make it in high school, especially if most of his friends make it.

I have heard of many kids getting cut freshman year from sports their kids played their entire lives. If you were just on the rec team, you probably never had a shot anyways but kids who played on travel also get cut. Soccer, baseball, basketball, tennis are all sports that many/most boys play and when 100+ kids try out for 12-16 spots, a lot of kids get disappointed.

[Anonymous]

I told my kids they can skip college. Who needs college when they already have investment accounts and busy doing other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To OP's original post, I have the exact same feeling. I had no idea that only doing swim 2 days a week and summer meant my child would never make the high school team (which is apparently reserved for future Olympians). Similarly so many other doors are closed because I was afraid of being a tiger mom or pushing too hard or whatever. But those kids are all excelling and playing on teams and taking advanced courses. I don't think the problem is that we didn't push (I don't actually think that's good for kids) so much as that our system rewards that kind of parenting.

I posted previously about my 3 kids playing tennis. 1 kid is a far superior tennis player than my other 2 kids. We gave the other 2 kids the same opportunities and would have supported them the same. We didn’t necessarily push one harder than the others. My tennis playing kid is also the best student and just a very focused kid.

I also have two super social kids who care much more about their friends. My middle kid is athletic but he plays too many sports and not as focused. He is not as academically focused and I doubt his college prospects will be as good at my oldest. We have spent the most time and energy trying to parent this kid but the outcome isn’t the same. Kids are individuals.

Me again. I actually think my middle kid will be the most successful because he has amazing people skills. Everyone wants to be his friend. My oldest is such a serious kid. I wish he would have more fun like my other two kids.