Rigor at TJ compared to regular FCPS high Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of TJ student here. UVA has become a stretch for TJ students also. UVA requires a 4.4 and above GPA. Getting that high a GPA at TJ is VERY HARD. Only top 25% are able to hit that GPA

(avg GPA at TJ is 3.8 to 4.2)

Students do not start TJ with a mindset 'OMG, I have to get into UVA.' UVA in not on their radar.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:TJ is insane. Honors classes are taught like AP classes. AP classes are like college and post AP like grad school.

Is anything not difficult at TJ, other than taking a selfie standing outside!

Inside of the school is like a homework hurricane, with quizzes and tests that get graded with a sternness usually reserved for judging chili cook-offs!

And as if that weren't enough, Honors classes are served up with an extra helping of "AP-ness," AP classes are like a fast-track to college, and post-AP courses? Well, they're basically a PhD in academic endurance!

This is laughable. It's pretty much like any FCPS school. It would be best if you people got over it already.

Absolutely not. You have no idea how difficult the courses are and the rigor TJ has. Unlike regular Hig Schools were attending a class and covering the material taught ensures an A, in TJ only 25% of what is taught actually is part of the test/quiz. The kids are expected to research and go into too much depth. Most of the teachers expect self study/reasearch and openly say the rigor is comparable to college courses.

LOLs you can take most of the same classes at any HS. TJ isn't really anything special.

Graduating TJ in the top 1/2 is like getting a STEM degree from a relatively weak STEM place like UVA.

Perhaps but not like many TJ grads can even get into UVA these days.

Only if you graduate in the bottom 10%.

In all fairness not many TJ grads even qualify even those in the top half. It's pretty sad really.

UVA's e-school even has an average SAT over 1550 which is well above TJ's median score. It just goes to show how far standards at TJ have fallen.

Nope, the SAT is a very low ceiling test. Anything from high 1400s to 1600 does not meaningfully differentiate anything about a student. This is the reason why many top schools don't care about the SAT for high end scores, they only care if the student scores low because that suggests something might be wrong.

Wrong e-school SAT average is around 125 points above the UVA average and well above TJ's.

UVA average for 2022 entering class excluding Engineering was 1450 (test optional). Engineering was 1476. So Engineering was 26 points higher, but not 125 points.

https://ira.virginia.edu/university-data-home/undergraduate-admissions

I just looked this up and the 50% for Arts and science was 1475 according to the data on their website but engineering was closer to 1550.

I know but the UVA haters will just post lies. Everyone knows UVA STEM is far more selective than TJ since most TJ kids can't even get in.

Is that why only the bottom 40% of TJ grads even bother to apply to UVA? UVA is a safety for the 60% of the TJ students.

This has never been true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of TJ student here. UVA has become a stretch for TJ students also. UVA requires a 4.4 and above GPA. Getting that high a GPA at TJ is VERY HARD. Only top 25% are able to hit that GPA

(avg GPA at TJ is 3.8 to 4.2)

This is true. UVA and VT do not care about the rigor of TJ, they only care about higher GPA. So if UVA or VT is your 1st choice, don't come to TJ, stay at your base school and get unweighted 4.0 GPA. So many high performing kids from TJ were rejected outright at UVA and VT last year because of their unweighted GPA that is not 4.0.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of TJ student here. UVA has become a stretch for TJ students also. UVA requires a 4.4 and above GPA. Getting that high a GPA at TJ is VERY HARD. Only top 25% are able to hit that GPA

(avg GPA at TJ is 3.8 to 4.2)

This is true. UVA and VT do not care about the rigor of TJ, they only care about higher GPA. So if UVA or VT is your 1st choice, don't come to TJ, stay at your base school and get unweighted 4.0 GPA. So many high performing kids from TJ were rejected outright at UVA and VT last year because of their unweighted GPA that is not 4.0.

You do know only a handful of TJ kids graduate with 4.0 unweighted GPAs. You sound like a UVA booster wannabe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of TJ student here. UVA has become a stretch for TJ students also. UVA requires a 4.4 and above GPA. Getting that high a GPA at TJ is VERY HARD. Only top 25% are able to hit that GPA

(avg GPA at TJ is 3.8 to 4.2)

This is true. UVA and VT do not care about the rigor of TJ, they only care about higher GPA. So if UVA or VT is your 1st choice, don't come to TJ, stay at your base school and get unweighted 4.0 GPA. So many high performing kids from TJ were rejected outright at UVA and VT last year because of their unweighted GPA that is not 4.0.

Literally no part of this post is true.

Here's the reality of the relationship between TJ and UVA:

Back in the earlier days of TJ, it was a reasonable expectation of most kids that they could rely on getting into UVA as long as they were somewhat successful in high school and didn't have any glaring red flags on their transcript - like a B- or a C in a full-year class or a complete lack of any AP heft. There were years when TJ sent over 130 students to UVA in one class of less than 400 graduates.

As years went by, that began to change because 1) UVA, like most schools, started receiving more and more applications from higher caliber of students and 2) UVA has always valued well-roundedness in its applicants and under the leadership of Dr. Glazer, TJ students by design became significantly less well-rounded and therefore less interesting to UVA. That's when you started to see TJ kids with objectively strong but fairly one-dimensional resumes getting turned down while students with perhaps lesser GPAs and board scores - even of the same demographic - would be admitted.

Nowadays, it is a significant accomplishment for a TJ student to get into UVA, not because UVA has changed for the better, but because for many years TJ changed for the worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of TJ student here. UVA has become a stretch for TJ students also. UVA requires a 4.4 and above GPA. Getting that high a GPA at TJ is VERY HARD. Only top 25% are able to hit that GPA

(avg GPA at TJ is 3.8 to 4.2)

This is true. UVA and VT do not care about the rigor of TJ, they only care about higher GPA. So if UVA or VT is your 1st choice, don't come to TJ, stay at your base school and get unweighted 4.0 GPA. So many high performing kids from TJ were rejected outright at UVA and VT last year because of their unweighted GPA that is not 4.0.

You do know only a handful of TJ kids graduate with 4.0 unweighted GPAs. You sound like a UVA booster wannabe.

This is 100% true. You could comfortably fit the number of TJ students who graduate with unweighted 4.0s year over year in a classroom.

[Anonymous]

I know of a TJ kid from last year with 3.8/4.3 uw/w GPA rejected by UVA and VT. Kid has impressive ECs and top rigor math tracks. A base school kid with 4.0 uw GPA is more successful in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know of a TJ kid from last year with 3.8/4.3 uw/w GPA rejected by UVA and VT. Kid has impressive ECs and top rigor math tracks. A base school kid with 4.0 uw GPA is more successful in college admissions.

That profile should not have gotten them turned down at VT. Suggests there was a significant problem in the application. Might have been bland writing components.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know of a TJ kid from last year with 3.8/4.3 uw/w GPA rejected by UVA and VT. Kid has impressive ECs and top rigor math tracks. A base school kid with 4.0 uw GPA is more successful in college admissions.

Historically, VT has not been that big of a TJ destination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of TJ student here. UVA has become a stretch for TJ students also. UVA requires a 4.4 and above GPA. Getting that high a GPA at TJ is VERY HARD. Only top 25% are able to hit that GPA

(avg GPA at TJ is 3.8 to 4.2)

Students do not start TJ with a mindset 'OMG, I have to get into UVA.' UVA in not on their radar.

That's so false. That's all most of them talk about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know of a TJ kid from last year with 3.8/4.3 uw/w GPA rejected by UVA and VT. Kid has impressive ECs and top rigor math tracks. A base school kid with 4.0 uw GPA is more successful in college admissions.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that the students at our flagship Universities are just a cut above a county HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of TJ student here. UVA has become a stretch for TJ students also. UVA requires a 4.4 and above GPA. Getting that high a GPA at TJ is VERY HARD. Only top 25% are able to hit that GPA

(avg GPA at TJ is 3.8 to 4.2)

This is true. UVA and VT do not care about the rigor of TJ, they only care about higher GPA. So if UVA or VT is your 1st choice, don't come to TJ, stay at your base school and get unweighted 4.0 GPA. So many high performing kids from TJ were rejected outright at UVA and VT last year because of their unweighted GPA that is not 4.0.

Literally no part of this post is true.

Here's the reality of the relationship between TJ and UVA:

Back in the earlier days of TJ, it was a reasonable expectation of most kids that they could rely on getting into UVA as long as they were somewhat successful in high school and didn't have any glaring red flags on their transcript - like a B- or a C in a full-year class or a complete lack of any AP heft. There were years when TJ sent over 130 students to UVA in one class of less than 400 graduates.

As years went by, that began to change because 1) UVA, like most schools, started receiving more and more applications from higher caliber of students and 2) UVA has always valued well-roundedness in its applicants and under the leadership of Dr. Glazer, TJ students by design became significantly less well-rounded and therefore less interesting to UVA. That's when you started to see TJ kids with objectively strong but fairly one-dimensional resumes getting turned down while students with perhaps lesser GPAs and board scores - even of the same demographic - would be admitted.

Nowadays, it is a significant accomplishment for a TJ student to get into UVA, not because UVA has changed for the better, but because for many years TJ changed for the worse.

Many TJ parents would be well served if they were able to grasp this truth.

[Anonymous]

Every since the admissions test was eliminated, riqor was bound to come down.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Bottom 10% at TJ will be top 10% at Langley and McLean etc.

+1

The top 10% at Langley and McLean currently are much stronger than the bottom 10% at TJ so you seem to be predicting improvements at TJ. Let’s see in a few years when there are more results.

The top 10% at Langley, McLean, Oakton, Woodson, Chantilly, Fairfax, Braddock will fit within the top 25% at TJ.

We can look at SAT distributions to really get a sense of how much further ahead TJ kids are versus other schools. In 2022 the SAT average score at TJ was 1533 versus 1302 at Langley. The standard deviation was 198 in Virginia. That means the TJ average was well over a full standard deviation above Langley. Woodson and LB aren't even in the conversation at 1217.

The top 16% of kids (one standard deviation above the mean) at Langley could be assumed to have starting scores of 1302(mean) + 198 (SD) = 1500 which is still within the bottom 50% at TJ.

The average SAT score at TJ is 1533 and someone up thread said that the UVA e school SAT was 150 points higher? Seems unlikely.

UVA's average SAT is about 1320.

Maybe back in 1980 but engineering school admits today need to be over 1550 to get a shot.

Yes, they're attempting to mislead people with false information. The middle 50% for the class of 2022 was just shy of 1500. https://admission.virginia.edu/admission/statistics

Also as the PP noted it's much higher for competitive majors like CS or Engineering.

Maybe, but saying one needs a 1550 to get a shot is even more misleading. Beyond 1500, SAT will not make a meaningful difference in admissions; the other parts of the application are vastly more important.

Perhaps, but then again the median is 1550 for e-school so it's certainly higher than TJ's median.

I don't think UVA publishes an overall percentile scores (Math + Verbal) by school. They publish separate Math and Verbal percentiles by school and they publish a mean for Math and Verbal. For Engineering, the Math median (50th percentile) was 770 and the Verbal median was 730. But you can't add them to get a true composite median. That has to be separately calculated and UVA does not provide that for Engineering.

If you are working with means (averages), you can add them together to get a composite. UVA publishes an mean of 758 Math and 718 Verbal for engineering for 2022 entering class for an overall mean of 1476.

Someone posted above that the mean for TJ is 1533. IF THAT IS TRUE, it would be higher than the mean at UVA Engineering.

https://ira.virginia.edu/university-data-home/undergraduate-admissions

The mean for UVA engineering is around 1550+ which is greater than TJ's paltry 1533 and probably why so many TJ students don't make the cut.

If you follow the link above, you will see that the mean (average) for UVA Engineering for 2022 entering class was 1476 (758 + 718).

You can't add medians like that.
Consider three students with the following scores:
800, 800 (1600)
750, 500 (1250
500, 750 (1250)

What is the median math score? The median English score? Their sum? And lastly, what's the median total score?

[Anonymous]

You cannot compare the no. 1 ranked high school in the country with a university not even in the top 20.

Why would MIT grad dream of going on to grad school in CS at UVA? Non-sense. In-state tuition is the only thing attracting few TJ kids who do apply. Getting really sick of UVA non-sense from all the UVA morons.

All they know how to do is attack other schools and mock them so immature and insecure bunch of aholes.