7/24/23 Trial of Usman Shahid -- driver who killed two Oakton teens

[Anonymous]

or for buying him a car. I forget which one it was. Not watching the trial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Driver only had a learners permit?! WTF? Did the parents allow him to drive to school and then where ever they were going at the time of the crash? That seems pretty crazy.

If that's true he was breaking the law by driving unsupervised by a licensed driver. The county bears some responsibility for not enforcing that.

No the parents do for giving him their car. But he was 18. Why wouldn't he have his license?

A lot of kids around here do not get their license until they are 18.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Driver only had a learners permit?! WTF? Did the parents allow him to drive to school and then where ever they were going at the time of the crash? That seems pretty crazy.

If that's true he was breaking the law by driving unsupervised by a licensed driver. The county bears some responsibility for not enforcing that.

That's not how that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Driver only had a learners permit?! WTF? Did the parents allow him to drive to school and then where ever they were going at the time of the crash? That seems pretty crazy.

If that's true he was breaking the law by driving unsupervised by a licensed driver. The county bears some responsibility for not enforcing that.

LOL..ok, sure, it's the county's fault.


So if I drive drunk it is also the county's fault?

[Anonymous]

Wow! I didn't believe the post stating he only had a learner's permit, but it appears to be true: https://patch.com/virginia/fairfaxcity/driver-crash-killed-2-students-only-had-learners-permit

Why in the world is he taking this to trial?! I suppose juries can do anything, but it seems highly unlikely they'll be in agreement that the unlicensed 18-year old driver going 81 in his BMW isn't the one responsible.

Also, I wonder if this could open the door to the parents' being held liable civilly. It's a high bar, but if they knowingly let him drive in a manner disallowed by his permit, that seems problematic.

[Anonymous]

Also, two updates from reporter Paul Wagner on Twitter:

2 hours ago: The prosecution has rested in the Involuntary Manslaughter trial of Usman Shahid after a highly contentious cross examination of the lead detective who testified she did not record the interview with the driver of the Toyota 4 Runner. Defense begins case this afternoon.

5 minutes ago: Breaking - after calling one witness, a private investigator, the defense rested in the Involuntary Manslaughter trial of Usman Shahid. Defense attorney Peter Greenspan conferred briefly with his client before telling the judge they were done.

Seems like he has a weak case if his only witness is a private investigator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I didn't believe the post stating he only had a learner's permit, but it appears to be true: https://patch.com/virginia/fairfaxcity/driver-crash-killed-2-students-only-had-learners-permit

Why in the world is he taking this to trial?! I suppose juries can do anything, but it seems highly unlikely they'll be in agreement that the unlicensed 18-year old driver going 81 in his BMW isn't the one responsible.

Also, I wonder if this could open the door to the parents' being held liable civilly. It's a high bar, but if they knowingly let him drive in a manner disallowed by his permit, that seems problematic.

How could the parents be held responsible for the actions of an 18 year old?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, two updates from reporter Paul Wagner on Twitter:

2 hours ago: The prosecution has rested in the Involuntary Manslaughter trial of Usman Shahid after a highly contentious cross examination of the lead detective who testified she did not record the interview with the driver of the Toyota 4 Runner. Defense begins case this afternoon.

5 minutes ago: Breaking - after calling one witness, a private investigator, the defense rested in the Involuntary Manslaughter trial of Usman Shahid. Defense attorney Peter Greenspan conferred briefly with his client before telling the judge they were done.

Seems like he has a weak case if his only witness is a private investigator.

That's an understatement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I didn't believe the post stating he only had a learner's permit, but it appears to be true: https://patch.com/virginia/fairfaxcity/driver-crash-killed-2-students-only-had-learners-permit

Why in the world is he taking this to trial?! I suppose juries can do anything, but it seems highly unlikely they'll be in agreement that the unlicensed 18-year old driver going 81 in his BMW isn't the one responsible.

Also, I wonder if this could open the door to the parents' being held liable civilly. It's a high bar, but if they knowingly let him drive in a manner disallowed by his permit, that seems problematic.

How could the parents be held responsible for the actions of an 18 year old?

Presumably they bought him the BMW. And it's possible they knowingly let him drive it with his friends despite his being unlicensed. I am not sure if that's sufficient.

[Anonymous]

Anybody doubting this drivers responsibility should go drive that section. As soon as you hit the concrete part going over I66 you have a clear view of the intersection of the crash. There is more than ample time to stop if going anywhere near the speed limit. This guy accelerated the whole way!

Let's say the intersection was fully blocked by a prior crash. Even with a green light a driver would stop, not accelerate towards the blockage. He was driving recklessly. If he were driving responsibily he could easily have stopped in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I didn't believe the post stating he only had a learner's permit, but it appears to be true: https://patch.com/virginia/fairfaxcity/driver-crash-killed-2-students-only-had-learners-permit

Why in the world is he taking this to trial?! I suppose juries can do anything, but it seems highly unlikely they'll be in agreement that the unlicensed 18-year old driver going 81 in his BMW isn't the one responsible.

Also, I wonder if this could open the door to the parents' being held liable civilly. It's a high bar, but if they knowingly let him drive in a manner disallowed by his permit, that seems problematic.

How could the parents be held responsible for the actions of an 18 year old?

Presumably they bought him the BMW. And it's possible they knowingly let him drive it with his friends despite his being unlicensed. I am not sure if that's sufficient.

I bet they are happy he's 18.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I didn't believe the post stating he only had a learner's permit, but it appears to be true: https://patch.com/virginia/fairfaxcity/driver-crash-killed-2-students-only-had-learners-permit

Why in the world is he taking this to trial?! I suppose juries can do anything, but it seems highly unlikely they'll be in agreement that the unlicensed 18-year old driver going 81 in his BMW isn't the one responsible.

Also, I wonder if this could open the door to the parents' being held liable civilly. It's a high bar, but if they knowingly let him drive in a manner disallowed by his permit, that seems problematic.

How could the parents be held responsible for the actions of an 18 year old?

Presumably they bought him the BMW. And it's possible they knowingly let him drive it with his friends despite his being unlicensed. I am not sure if that's sufficient.

I bet they are happy he's 18.

Does that matter from a civil perspective? Usually the owner/co owner of the car is also sued. At least in MD they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I didn't believe the post stating he only had a learner's permit, but it appears to be true: https://patch.com/virginia/fairfaxcity/driver-crash-killed-2-students-only-had-learners-permit

Why in the world is he taking this to trial?! I suppose juries can do anything, but it seems highly unlikely they'll be in agreement that the unlicensed 18-year old driver going 81 in his BMW isn't the one responsible.

Also, I wonder if this could open the door to the parents' being held liable civilly. It's a high bar, but if they knowingly let him drive in a manner disallowed by his permit, that seems problematic.

How could the parents be held responsible for the actions of an 18 year old?

Presumably they bought him the BMW. And it's possible they knowingly let him drive it with his friends despite his being unlicensed. I am not sure if that's sufficient.

I bet they are happy he's 18.

Does that matter from a civil perspective? Usually the owner/co owner of the car is also sued. At least in MD they are.

I don't know. It does affect the criminal trial.

[Anonymous]

If he were under 18 the prosecutor could choose to charge him as a minor, which could mean an extremely light sentence. The 17 year old driver who killed Brandon Meade received less than a year and will have his record expunged, IIRC. (That was the Arlington CA, but the Fairfax CA also is known to be leftist). Hopefully the victims’ families will be spared the same agony.

From a civil standpoint, I actually think it could help the victims’ families if he were a minor. There’s a stronger argument that parents shouldn’t be responsible for the actions of another adult. But I have no idea what the law says and if this type of situation has even been addressed in VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he were under 18 the prosecutor could choose to charge him as a minor, which could mean an extremely light sentence. The 17 year old driver who killed Brandon Meade received less than a year and will have his record expunged, IIRC. (That was the Arlington CA, but the Fairfax CA also is known to be leftist). Hopefully the victims’ families will be spared the same agony.

From a civil standpoint, I actually think it could help the victims’ families if he were a minor. There’s a stronger argument that parents shouldn’t be responsible for the actions of another adult. But I have no idea what the law says and if this type of situation has even been addressed in VA.

I don’t think it’s so much parents being responsible in civil matters. I think it’s the owners of the car that matters as the insurance and titling of the car follows the owner.