Spare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For very long time Harry was one of the most popular royal family members. I think the public was really happy for him when he found Meghan. Clearly, however there were signs that not all was well even before the wedding. And William tried to warn him, and Harry has been upset with him ever since.

What do you all think were William's objections and reasoning for trying to warn him? I'm sure it was the alleged staff bullying, but there has to be more.

That Harry and Meghan were getting popular, too popular.

Yeah how’s that working? Where’s the joy in how beloved they are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For very long time Harry was one of the most popular royal family members. I think the public was really happy for him when he found Meghan. Clearly, however there were signs that not all was well even before the wedding. And William tried to warn him, and Harry has been upset with him ever since.

What do you all think were William's objections and reasoning for trying to warn him? I'm sure it was the alleged staff bullying, but there has to be more.

William did not like the speed with which the courtship unfolded, and thought Harry needed to take more time to make sure Meghan understands the reality of royal life, and what she's getting into. Harry took it as an offense.

From all accounts, Meghan never did want to understand the reality of royal life, and was deeply uninterested in fitting in in any normal sense.

I personally am very put off by the evidence of how early and often they videotaped themselves in the process. Who videotapes the call to a girlfriend when your bf is about to propose? It's almost like they were collecting material they planned to use in the future.

I also think that both Diana and Charles failed as parents for not acclimating Harry properly to the reality of being, yes, a spare. Resentment and envy toward the royal hierarchy is a main theme of Harry's book and I don't know that anyone grown should be THAT angry on what is a physical fact of the order of birth.

Yes. William's caution to Harry to take it slow with M seemed a normal and a reasonable one. Yet Harry instantly took offense.

Also, does anyone remember Harry's tantrum during the wedding prep: screaming "what Meghan wants, Meghan gets"?

I'm sure both sides had valid reasons to be upset with the other side, but Harry will always strike me as emotionally stunted.

[Anonymous]

The account of the altercation, frankly, paints Harry in a light that's too precious to sympathize with. I mean William's not much better but at least his vices are easy to understand.

But Harry? The broken necklace? the broken dog bowl? (what's it made of, crystal? what type of dog bowl breaks when a man falls on top of it?) The shards cutting his delicate skin? The therapist on speed dial?

It's all a bit much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The account of the altercation, frankly, paints Harry in a light that's too precious to sympathize with. I mean William's not much better but at least his vices are easy to understand.

But Harry? The broken necklace? the broken dog bowl? (what's it made of, crystal? what type of dog bowl breaks when a man falls on top of it?) The shards cutting his delicate skin? The therapist on speed dial?

It's all a bit much.

It’s insane. It doesn’t hold water with how fights happen.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If these are the worst stories they can come up with....

she wagged a finger at me after I made a snarky comment about hormones...

he pushed me back after we got in a face to face shouting match about my wife bullying people....

This is a lot of ruined relationships over pretty petty family conflicts.

The confrontation escalated, Harry writes, until William “grabbed me by the collar, ripping my necklace, and … knocked me to the floor”.

The extraordinary scene, which Harry says resulted in visible injury to his back, is one of many in Spare, which will be published worldwide next week and is likely to spark a serious furore for the British royal family.

… After William complained about Meghan, Harry writes, Harry told him he was repeating the press narrative and that he expected better. But William, Harry says, was not being rational, leading to the two men shouting over each other.

Harry then accused his brother of acting like an heir, unable to understand why his younger brother was not content to be a spare.


Insults were exchanged, before William claimed he was trying to help.

Harry said: “Are you serious? Help me? Sorry – is that what you call this? Helping me?”

That comment, Harry says, angered his brother, who swore while stepping towards him. Now scared, Harry writes, he went to the kitchen, his furious brother following.

Harry writes that he gave his brother a glass of water and said: “Willy, I can’t speak to you when you’re like this.”

He writes: “He set down the water, called me another name, then came at me. It all happened so fast. So very fast. He grabbed me by the collar, ripping my necklace, and he knocked me to the floor. I landed on the dog’s bowl, which cracked under my back, the pieces cutting into me. I lay there for a moment, dazed, then got to my feet and told him to get out.”

Harry writes that William urged him to hit back, citing fights they had as children. Harry says he refused to do so. William left, Harry says, then returned “looking regretful, and apologised”.

When William left again, his brother writes, he “turned and called back: ‘You don’t need to tell Meg about this.’

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/04/prince-harry-william-physical-attack-2019-meghan-spare-book

The story about Kate and Will encouraging Harry to dress in the Nazi costume is the worst one in my opinion. It's one thing for 20 year old Harry to have bad judgment--he'll never have an important role in Britain. But the future king and queen?
https://people.com/royals/prince-harry-says-kate-middleton-prince-william-told-him-wear-nazi-costume-spare-reports/

WOW. This grown ass man is completely unable to take any responsibility for his actions. Is he really trying to blame this particular event on anyone other than himself? It completely diminishes his credibility on other topics.

I think he solely took responsibility for that action for more than a decade. But if he says that Will and Kate also egged him on, he's got a right to share his story.

I actually think all of the criticism for this is unfair - the rules changed very recently and this event preceded the time when dressing like a bad guy was no longer acceptable. But when he starts defensively pointing a finger at his brother and SIL, who he used to have a good relationship with, it's just pathetic. None of them knew better at the time. Now they all do. He can say whatever he wants, but that doesn't mean he should.

Um, no. They're in their 40s. Dressing like a Nazi for a costume party wasn't ever acceptable or funny in their time. Jewish people. Old people with memories of being blitzed. Anyone who finds anti-Semitism wrong. These are all people who would not find this not acceptable.

Yes, dressing for a costume party used to be okay. Now it's not. We've changed the rules - but in the not-too-distant past, it wasn't unacceptable. (I actually wonder if the rules have changed or if the costume parties with offensive costumes are just a little quieter nowadays.)

Did you go to KKK U? I didn’t and am about the same age as William and no, this would not been acceptable when we were in our 20s.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

Protect him in what way? From whom? How do we know they were not protecting him? Because he said so? It seems to me that Harry has been well protected. But then Meghan came in the picture and all hell broke loose.

I think Harry doesn't acknowledge the times he was protected, and that was clearly the case for a long while. But I also think he had the goods on William allowing the anti-Meghan leak to the Daily Mail, and of course would resent that. An outspoken American joining the royal family was a culture shock all around, and it seems they were not inclined to protect her in terms of PR. Even if I think some of it (eg the question of staff treatment) was her own doing, Harry felt the need to draw the line when it came to her and the kids. I don't blame him for that, and I also think he's well aware Kate was trashed in the press for many years but, unlike William, was unwilling to tolerate it. As is often the case, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Do you think the outspoken American sort of brought it on herself by a very open lack of interest in fitting in and learning what's expected of her?

Seeing as Meghan has rejected all advice and mentorship offered to her early on, it looks like she never intended to stay. She saw huge commercial value to the BRF connection, and wanted to merch it. From the beginning. That's the motherlode.

Is this true though? I don't know whether we have enough info to make that determination. That is not to say I don't think they both come across as stereotypically self-centered millennials.

+1

NP and I think they did very little to help her out.

I am interested in reading the book.

It's a story of "my famous family sucks" and I think he is entitled to tell it.

Let's face it, after the Queen died, someone of the enthusiasm for the whole monarchy went with it. I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to dwindle away. If it's as if they claim, and it's a whole marketing machine, then why haven't they figured out that Charles should have said yeah I am going to pass on being the King and let my son take over bc I am older and he is the new generation, blah, blah, blah. People love Kate and this would have ensured the monarchy would receive the same enthusiasm.

I think most of what Harry says has truth to it. It's just the way it is. They aren't perfect people. They are rich and white and royal and the live in their own little bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For very long time Harry was one of the most popular royal family members. I think the public was really happy for him when he found Meghan. Clearly, however there were signs that not all was well even before the wedding. And William tried to warn him, and Harry has been upset with him ever since.

What do you all think were William's objections and reasoning for trying to warn him? I'm sure it was the alleged staff bullying, but there has to be more.

That Harry and Meghan were getting popular, too popular.

Yeah how’s that working? Where’s the joy in how beloved they are?

Well unfortunately they chose to monetize the wrong thing. Maybe they felt it's all they had, maybe they really wanted revenge, but the joy is for sure extinguished. They chose poorly imo.

[Anonymous]

I had wondered about the big picture of H (and M) trashing his family and the long term prospect of the BRF. Here's an article that touches on that:

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3784176-the-trouble-with-harry-and-meghan/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

I agree! And I bet the posters saying Meghan is at fault because she didn’t accept “mentoring” or exhaustively research the role would be very free to gripe that their MILs want to be called Oma or Grammy Barb or serve cornbread stuffing instead of regular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

Protect him in what way? From whom? How do we know they were not protecting him? Because he said so? It seems to me that Harry has been well protected. But then Meghan came in the picture and all hell broke loose.

I think Harry doesn't acknowledge the times he was protected, and that was clearly the case for a long while. But I also think he had the goods on William allowing the anti-Meghan leak to the Daily Mail, and of course would resent that. An outspoken American joining the royal family was a culture shock all around, and it seems they were not inclined to protect her in terms of PR. Even if I think some of it (eg the question of staff treatment) was her own doing, Harry felt the need to draw the line when it came to her and the kids. I don't blame him for that, and I also think he's well aware Kate was trashed in the press for many years but, unlike William, was unwilling to tolerate it. As is often the case, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Do you think the outspoken American sort of brought it on herself by a very open lack of interest in fitting in and learning what's expected of her?

Seeing as Meghan has rejected all advice and mentorship offered to her early on, it looks like she never intended to stay. She saw huge commercial value to the BRF connection, and wanted to merch it. From the beginning. That's the motherlode.

Is this true though? I don't know whether we have enough info to make that determination. That is not to say I don't think they both come across as stereotypically self-centered millennials.

+1

NP and I think they did very little to help her out.

I am interested in reading the book.

It's a story of "my famous family sucks" and I think he is entitled to tell it.

Let's face it, after the Queen died, someone of the enthusiasm for the whole monarchy went with it. I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to dwindle away. If it's as if they claim, and it's a whole marketing machine, then why haven't they figured out that Charles should have said yeah I am going to pass on being the King and let my son take over bc I am older and he is the new generation, blah, blah, blah. People love Kate and this would have ensured the monarchy would receive the same enthusiasm.

I think most of what Harry says has truth to it. It's just the way it is. They aren't perfect people. They are rich and white and royal and the live in their own little bubble.

I disagree entirely with your premise. Yes, Elizabeth was an international icon, an institution. But Charles is the King of England. Abdication for the clicks is an American idray, not something that would even happen.

Some of what Harry is saying may be true. But none of it should be said in public. That's not living in a bubble. That's real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

Only one person can inherit. That's a fact of life. Life that has dealt Harry rather a good hand. Older brother is being raised to lead, younger to support him.

He could have had his family if he played by the rules.

This book virtually guarantees he'd never be welcome back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11602551/Prince-Harrys-book-William-pointed-finger-Meghan-called-rude.html
I hope Spare is clearer than this DailyMail article. Meghan makes a comment about hormones that sets Kate off at the bridal salon, but then somehow (at a different point in time?) William shows up and waves a finger in her face and that makes Meghan cry?

The way I read this is that there was a confrontation after the bridal salon exchange.

Man if someone I barely knew told me I had "baby brain" I would be LIVID. Is anyone else seeing this as William defending his wife?

Yeah, but I thought there was crying during the bridal salon exchange, so I guess I'm just not understanding the sequence. Anyway, I can see how some people would get pissed at that kind of offhand remark being made, especially Kate with her tough pregnancies. But many many many others would just laugh it off.

yeah. i joke about mommy brain and baby brain with my friends (who are also mothers). it's definitely not up there with the worst things you could say to an in-law.

Not the worst thing. But it can be used as an insult. And getting a finger wag in response seems appropriate.

Not a great relationship among in-laws. But not the worst. Or at least not then - now it is. SMH

How could the money and revenge possibly have been worth the end of your relationship with your only brother? I don't care how much you resented being "the spare," it is simply not worth it.

What did Harry actually want of William? To change their birth order? In every aspect of life (like it or not), there is a hierarchy.

I think he wanted his family/the institution to protect him in the same way William was protected. It's an understandable desire, if not realistic.

+1

He literally says in the 60 minutes clip “I want a family, not an institution.”

What do people not get about this?? Makes perfect sense. It’s never a good idea to so clearly treat one sibling better than the other. And don’t give me any Bs about this being the royal family. It doesn’t matter, they don’t “have” to do things that way.

I agree! And I bet the posters saying Meghan is at fault because she didn’t accept “mentoring” or exhaustively research the role would be very free to gripe that their MILs want to be called Oma or Grammy Barb or serve cornbread stuffing instead of regular.

If I come to work for my MIL, I do what she says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For very long time Harry was one of the most popular royal family members. I think the public was really happy for him when he found Meghan. Clearly, however there were signs that not all was well even before the wedding. And William tried to warn him, and Harry has been upset with him ever since.

What do you all think were William's objections and reasoning for trying to warn him? I'm sure it was the alleged staff bullying, but there has to be more.

That Harry and Meghan were getting popular, too popular.

Yeah how’s that working? Where’s the joy in how beloved they are?

They sit on a throne of lies. It's pretty clear the Emperor and Empress have no clothes on at this point. How long will their deluded fans cling to this love story fantasy?

[Anonymous]

I am not planning to read the book or buy the book. But, I certainly will give money to Meghan and Harry directly or through GoFundMe, if there is a way to do so.

I do not understand why a substandard human as Charles can become King, just because of his birth? THere is no need to have a monarchy in a democracy. If these jokers are wealthy on tax payer dime, then so can Harry and Meghan be. They lost their collective minds because of Meghan being half black.