What is the real reason MCPS uses Lottery for Middle School Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole magnet thing racist and favoring rich people in general even with the lottery.

A top 100 school district in another state did away with then for “equity” reasons around 20 years ago.

They took that money and instead of focusing on the top 5 percent of students spent it in a new type of magnet school for the bottom 5 percent of students to provide remedial help, better teacher to student rations, provide autistic and help special needs kids and kids with emotional issues.

Why did well off straight A white and Asian kids with college educated parents need extra help.

It is like putting Tom Brady on a bad football team and deciding let’s only give Tom Brady extra help. No you spend resources on the players that need it not the already great players.

This whole thread reminds me of the NYT podcast Nice White Parents. Privledged, wealthy people who think the public school owes them something special because they’re enrolling precious Larla in their local school system and who feed off exclusion at the expense of a vast majority of children. That there are so many people who are freaking out because a small number of kids who are very bright and capable and who will likely be successful in the magnet have been admitted despite not being 99th percentile is absurd - and shows how entitled so many parents on this forum are. No wonder MCPS is going to the crapper. Parents like these drain resources and divert attention from a majority of the children in the school.

Neither of you have any idea what you’re talking about. Really.

This is not about rich white families. This is not about kids who would be fine anyway. This is not about parent egos.

Most of the magnets are absolutely full of brown kids from middle class and immigrant families. The white and/or wealthy families I know don’t want to send their kids to the magnets. They prefer for them to stay with their friends at their home school. They aren’t worried about education because they can afford to send their kids to CTY or other nice enrichment if they want to. They usually want to focus their kids on sports. They know their kids will be ok. They like home school enrichment. The few white families who do send their kids to the magnets do so because they have a kid who is really complaining about the pace of school, usually because the home school doesn’t have a strong academic cohort and they aren’t wealthy enough to pay for regular enrichment or private. Or, because they are in Takoma Park and it is their home school anyway.

MCPS was on track to really improve the magnet selection a couple of years ago, putting emphasis on selection methods which favored CoGAT and cohort over MAP and grades (ability over privilege) and doing away with inherent bias like teacher recommendations and parent- initiated applications. By bringing MAP and grades back as the prime selection methods, they have had to vastly widen the pool to overcome the strong privilege bias those metrics create. So they are now just scooping tons of kids into the magnet system without making any effort to consider the need.

PP was correct that home school enrichment, except for kids who don’t have a cohort, is ideal. By adding enriched MS classes and paying attention to need for the actual magnets (ability and available cohort), that is exactly what MCPS was well on their way to doing two years ago, but they have now done a strange and self-destructive about face. It’s a public school system. Parents are allowed to complain and question. The new selection process creates a wasteful and silly system where the magnets are offered as a prize to be won instead of a service to meet student need.

[Anonymous]

MCPS was on track to really improve the magnet selection a couple of years ago, putting emphasis on selection methods which favored CoGAT and cohort over MAP and grades (ability over privilege) and doing away with inherent bias like teacher recommendations and parent- initiated applications. By bringing MAP and grades back as the prime selection methods, they have had to vastly widen the pool to overcome the strong privilege bias those metrics create. So they are now just scooping tons of kids into the magnet system without making any effort to consider the need.

Every single word of this. They were doing the right thing, and it was working. The decision to throw it in the trash before the first cohort even finished the program is inexplicable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MCPS was on track to really improve the magnet selection a couple of years ago, putting emphasis on selection methods which favored CoGAT and cohort over MAP and grades (ability over privilege) and doing away with inherent bias like teacher recommendations and parent- initiated applications. By bringing MAP and grades back as the prime selection methods, they have had to vastly widen the pool to overcome the strong privilege bias those metrics create. So they are now just scooping tons of kids into the magnet system without making any effort to consider the need.

Every single word of this. They were doing the right thing, and it was working. The decision to throw it in the trash before the first cohort even finished the program is inexplicable.

Also ditching teacher recs which are notoriously subjective and instituting universal screening were great moves but out of the blue there was this pandemic which was why things changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MCPS was on track to really improve the magnet selection a couple of years ago, putting emphasis on selection methods which favored CoGAT and cohort over MAP and grades (ability over privilege) and doing away with inherent bias like teacher recommendations and parent- initiated applications. By bringing MAP and grades back as the prime selection methods, they have had to vastly widen the pool to overcome the strong privilege bias those metrics create. So they are now just scooping tons of kids into the magnet system without making any effort to consider the need.

Every single word of this. They were doing the right thing, and it was working. The decision to throw it in the trash before the first cohort even finished the program is inexplicable.

Also ditching teacher recs which are notoriously subjective and instituting universal screening were great moves but out of the blue there was this pandemic which was why things changed.

This is about being GLOBALLY competitive. Other countries couldn't care less if the U.S. handicaps the "rich" or "Whites and Asians". In my opinion, it just makes it all the more sweeter when a Black or Hispanic makes it into the top tiers by hard work and earning the slot. Also not against reserving a few slots for "equity balance" - but only if they're the top in that group.

Think about it this way - will a "runner up" develop a new Covid vaccine or cure to save the World? There are times where you should be grateful, and not spiteful.

[Anonymous]

Indeed. To remain globally competitive American school systems should continue fishing the same rivers for the same fish in the same ways they ways have. Instead of sailing further out and using nets to catch larger numbers of suitable fish MCPS and other systems should stick with spear fishing and only go after a special few easy to spot big fish?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indeed. To remain globally competitive American school systems should continue fishing the same rivers for the same fish in the same ways they ways have. Instead of sailing further out and using nets to catch larger numbers of suitable fish MCPS and other systems should stick with spear fishing and only go after a special few easy to spot big fish?

Huh? At least they need to continue teaching math! "This open letter on math education in the US urges @CADeptEd to reject the latest draft California Math Framework (CMF) which eliminates 8th-grade Algebra I. It has over 150 signatories, including Fields Medalists, Turing Award winners, & Nobel laureates"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/defending-mathematics-science-stem-equity-education-california-k12-math-matters-11638728196?mod=hp_opin_pos_3#cxrecs_s

https://sites.google.com/view/k12mathmatters/home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indeed. To remain globally competitive American school systems should continue fishing the same rivers for the same fish in the same ways they ways have. Instead of sailing further out and using nets to catch larger numbers of suitable fish MCPS and other systems should stick with spear fishing and only go after a special few easy to spot big fish?

To use another fish analogy. It is teaching someone to fish, not giving them the fish. There is a big problem with math literacy in some groups. For example: "84 percent of Black students in eighth grade lack the ability to do math, and 85 percent are functionally illiterate". Source article is below.

https://thehill.com/opinion/education/579750-many-of-americas-black-youths-cannot-read-or-do-math-and-that-imperils-us

Diluting magnet requirements doesn't solve this problem. More resources in early childhood education (which is there in build back better) and other such initiatives will help.

[Anonymous]

That is a whole, whole other conversation.

This thread is about kids performing at an 85-99 percent level and to discover "the real reason" why MCPS is using a lottery to fish them out.

Bringing this other cohort of kids into the debate is another attempt at hoisting a strawman to keep us from staying focused on the fact that there ARE kids that get to these competitive levels without the support of educated, high achieving parents.

We are talking about whether or not those kids should have their names in the lottery fishbowl or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is a whole, whole other conversation.

This thread is about kids performing at an 85-99 percent level and to discover "the real reason" why MCPS is using a lottery to fish them out.

Bringing this other cohort of kids into the debate is another attempt at hoisting a strawman to keep us from staying focused on the fact that there ARE kids that get to these competitive levels without the support of educated, high achieving parents.

We are talking about whether or not those kids should have their names in the lottery fishbowl or not.

Real reason for lowering requirements? It isn't obvious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is a whole, whole other conversation.

This thread is about kids performing at an 85-99 percent level and to discover "the real reason" why MCPS is using a lottery to fish them out.

Bringing this other cohort of kids into the debate is another attempt at hoisting a strawman to keep us from staying focused on the fact that there ARE kids that get to these competitive levels without the support of educated, high achieving parents.

We are talking about whether or not those kids should have their names in the lottery fishbowl or not.

Real reason for lowering requirements? It isn't obvious?

Do tell...

[Anonymous]

If it is true that upwards of 50% of the accepted students were coming out of test prep schools then it is obvious that the students who were not enrolled in the test prep schools were disadvantaged.

You can't fault those families for being able to afford the enrichment, or at the test prep schools for being so good, but you can't in full knowledge of their effectiveness act like all of those testers didn't have an advantage going into the exam hall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is a whole, whole other conversation.

This thread is about kids performing at an 85-99 percent level and to discover "the real reason" why MCPS is using a lottery to fish them out.

Bringing this other cohort of kids into the debate is another attempt at hoisting a strawman to keep us from staying focused on the fact that there ARE kids that get to these competitive levels without the support of educated, high achieving parents.

We are talking about whether or not those kids should have their names in the lottery fishbowl or not.

This thread IS about the reason for lottery and lowering requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is a whole, whole other conversation.

This thread is about kids performing at an 85-99 percent level and to discover "the real reason" why MCPS is using a lottery to fish them out.

Bringing this other cohort of kids into the debate is another attempt at hoisting a strawman to keep us from staying focused on the fact that there ARE kids that get to these competitive levels without the support of educated, high achieving parents.

We are talking about whether or not those kids should have their names in the lottery fishbowl or not.

Real reason for lowering requirements? It isn't obvious?

Do tell...

Same reason why algebra is evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is a whole, whole other conversation.

This thread is about kids performing at an 85-99 percent level and to discover "the real reason" why MCPS is using a lottery to fish them out.

Bringing this other cohort of kids into the debate is another attempt at hoisting a strawman to keep us from staying focused on the fact that there ARE kids that get to these competitive levels without the support of educated, high achieving parents.

We are talking about whether or not those kids should have their names in the lottery fishbowl or not.

This thread IS about the reason for lottery and lowering requirements.

That and covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MCPS was on track to really improve the magnet selection a couple of years ago, putting emphasis on selection methods which favored CoGAT and cohort over MAP and grades (ability over privilege) and doing away with inherent bias like teacher recommendations and parent- initiated applications. By bringing MAP and grades back as the prime selection methods, they have had to vastly widen the pool to overcome the strong privilege bias those metrics create. So they are now just scooping tons of kids into the magnet system without making any effort to consider the need.

Every single word of this. They were doing the right thing, and it was working. The decision to throw it in the trash before the first cohort even finished the program is inexplicable.

The about-face isn´t inexplicable. It´s based on 2 things: Covid + litigation. The cohorts were attacked in the litigation, and from the court record, MCPS admin seems to not have a clue on how to deal with that allegation.