What is the real reason MCPS uses Lottery for Middle School Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

The fact that there is zero transparency regarding process is troubling.

That is when they can manipulate with no accountability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do it so that the classes are more diverse. I remember years ago many of the kids from my elementary school who went to magnet programs were white or Asian. The past few years when I look at who was accepted and compare it to the actual performance data, there are kids waitlisted who "qualified" over the accepted students.

No. I believe they did it so that families that could not afford the CoGAT prep schools could have a chance.

But anyone who has plowed through 15 pages of this debate has seen both sides of it by now...

Why not give everyone qualified a chance? Why do you cherish the chance only for select ones? Why are we leaving some kids behind even though they are qualified ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

The fact that there is zero transparency regarding process is troubling.

I know for a fact in my high school technical program that we use a random lottery. 358 8th graders entered from all over the county. We will invite them in waves of 20 to 30 without about 1 week to decide, then we invite the next random group. We do not look at academics, race, or any other metrics. However, I am sure other program might do so for equity reasons.

There is no standard approach with proper measurement and metrics for selection process. from 30000 feet above it looks like a curcus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do it so that the classes are more diverse. I remember years ago many of the kids from my elementary school who went to magnet programs were white or Asian. The past few years when I look at who was accepted and compare it to the actual performance data, there are kids waitlisted who "qualified" over the accepted students.

No. I believe they did it so that families that could not afford the CoGAT prep schools could have a chance.

But anyone who has plowed through 15 pages of this debate has seen both sides of it by now...

Why not give everyone qualified a chance? Why do you cherish the chance only for select ones? Why are we leaving some kids behind even though they are qualified ?

All of this could be solved with differentated classes at the MS level. It's so easy, and the answer is RIGHT THERE. Create a reasonable cut-off like 90th percentile. Cohort those kids at their home middle school UNLESS there are not enough of them to create a cohort, in which case bus them somewhere that does.

This solves the problem of an undifferentiated MS curriculum, does not require new staff, and cuts down on transportation bills. It would also alleviate 99% of the parental discontent because you would have bright, capable, kids working alongside other bright, capable, kids.

[Anonymous]

I find the whole magnet thing racist and favoring rich people in general even with the lottery.

A top 100 school district in another state did away with then for “equity” reasons around 20 years ago.

They took that money and instead of focusing on the top 5 percent of students spent it in a new type of magnet school for the bottom 5 percent of students to provide remedial help, better teacher to student rations, provide autistic and help special needs kids and kids with emotional issues.

Why did well off straight A white and Asian kids with college educated parents need extra help.

It is like putting Tom Brady on a bad football team and deciding let’s only give Tom Brady extra help. No you spend resources on the players that need it not the already great players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole magnet thing racist and favoring rich people in general even with the lottery.

A top 100 school district in another state did away with then for “equity” reasons around 20 years ago.

They took that money and instead of focusing on the top 5 percent of students spent it in a new type of magnet school for the bottom 5 percent of students to provide remedial help, better teacher to student rations, provide autistic and help special needs kids and kids with emotional issues.

Why did well off straight A white and Asian kids with college educated parents need extra help.

It is like putting Tom Brady on a bad football team and deciding let’s only give Tom Brady extra help. No you spend resources on the players that need it not the already great players.

This whole thread reminds me of the NYT podcast Nice White Parents. Privledged, wealthy people who think the public school owes them something special because they’re enrolling precious Larla in their local school system and who feed off exclusion at the expense of a vast majority of children. That there are so many people who are freaking out because a small number of kids who are very bright and capable and who will likely be successful in the magnet have been admitted despite not being 99th percentile is absurd - and shows how entitled so many parents on this forum are. No wonder MCPS is going to the crapper. Parents like these drain resources and divert attention from a majority of the children in the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole magnet thing racist and favoring rich people in general even with the lottery.

A top 100 school district in another state did away with then for “equity” reasons around 20 years ago.

They took that money and instead of focusing on the top 5 percent of students spent it in a new type of magnet school for the bottom 5 percent of students to provide remedial help, better teacher to student rations, provide autistic and help special needs kids and kids with emotional issues.

Why did well off straight A white and Asian kids with college educated parents need extra help.

It is like putting Tom Brady on a bad football team and deciding let’s only give Tom Brady extra help. No you spend resources on the players that need it not the already great players.

This whole thread reminds me of the NYT podcast Nice White Parents. Privledged, wealthy people who think the public school owes them something special because they’re enrolling precious Larla in their local school system and who feed off exclusion at the expense of a vast majority of children. That there are so many people who are freaking out because a small number of kids who are very bright and capable and who will likely be successful in the magnet have been admitted despite not being 99th percentile is absurd - and shows how entitled so many parents on this forum are. No wonder MCPS is going to the crapper. Parents like these drain resources and divert attention from a majority of the children in the school.

I think the complaint stems from randomness being used as a means of selection over actual merit to ensure a politically motivated demographic outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

The fact that there is zero transparency regarding process is troubling.

That is when they can manipulate with no accountability.

Except they've clearly laid out the process for years. The problem is some people who don't like to pretend it's unclear. It's a lottery run on the top 15%. It's that simple. Now stop complaining and seeing conspiracies that don't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole magnet thing racist and favoring rich people in general even with the lottery.

A top 100 school district in another state did away with then for “equity” reasons around 20 years ago.

They took that money and instead of focusing on the top 5 percent of students spent it in a new type of magnet school for the bottom 5 percent of students to provide remedial help, better teacher to student rations, provide autistic and help special needs kids and kids with emotional issues.

Why did well off straight A white and Asian kids with college educated parents need extra help.

It is like putting Tom Brady on a bad football team and deciding let’s only give Tom Brady extra help. No you spend resources on the players that need it not the already great players.

This whole thread reminds me of the NYT podcast Nice White Parents. Privledged, wealthy people who think the public school owes them something special because they’re enrolling precious Larla in their local school system and who feed off exclusion at the expense of a vast majority of children. That there are so many people who are freaking out because a small number of kids who are very bright and capable and who will likely be successful in the magnet have been admitted despite not being 99th percentile is absurd - and shows how entitled so many parents on this forum are. No wonder MCPS is going to the crapper. Parents like these drain resources and divert attention from a majority of the children in the school.

I think the complaint stems from randomness being used as a means of selection over actual merit to ensure a politically motivated demographic outcome.

It also stems from the complete lack of differentiated instruction for kids not in the magnet. Math is tracked, but English is not. That means that you have kids in the 99th percentile who just weren't "lucky" in the lottery in the same class as kids who didn't read in English until last year. As a result, no one is assigned books. All of the assigned reading is these short little sections from Benchmark, with no class discussion or analysis. Writing assignments are scarce and ungraded. MCPS has totally abdicated its responsibility to these kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

The fact that there is zero transparency regarding process is troubling.

That is when they can manipulate with no accountability.

Except they've clearly laid out the process for years. The problem is some people who don't like to pretend it's unclear. It's a lottery run on the top 15%. It's that simple. Now stop complaining and seeing conspiracies that don't exist.

You are super naive. I have older kids (including 2 in college). The process has never been clear--ever. Why not expand the program so that 99 percenters and 85 percenters can participate? Why can't we have a bigger pie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole magnet thing racist and favoring rich people in general even with the lottery.

A top 100 school district in another state did away with then for “equity” reasons around 20 years ago.

They took that money and instead of focusing on the top 5 percent of students spent it in a new type of magnet school for the bottom 5 percent of students to provide remedial help, better teacher to student rations, provide autistic and help special needs kids and kids with emotional issues.

Why did well off straight A white and Asian kids with college educated parents need extra help.

It is like putting Tom Brady on a bad football team and deciding let’s only give Tom Brady extra help. No you spend resources on the players that need it not the already great players.

There is no way MCPS is creating an entire school filled with poor performing brown kids. The optics would never fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do it so that the classes are more diverse. I remember years ago many of the kids from my elementary school who went to magnet programs were white or Asian. The past few years when I look at who was accepted and compare it to the actual performance data, there are kids waitlisted who "qualified" over the accepted students.

No. I believe they did it so that families that could not afford the CoGAT prep schools could have a chance.

But anyone who has plowed through 15 pages of this debate has seen both sides of it by now...

Why not give everyone qualified a chance? Why do you cherish the chance only for select ones? Why are we leaving some kids behind even though they are qualified ?

All of this could be solved with differentated classes at the MS level. It's so easy, and the answer is RIGHT THERE. Create a reasonable cut-off like 90th percentile. Cohort those kids at their home middle school UNLESS there are not enough of them to create a cohort, in which case bus them somewhere that does.

This solves the problem of an undifferentiated MS curriculum, does not require new staff, and cuts down on transportation bills. It would also alleviate 99% of the parental discontent because you would have bright, capable, kids working alongside other bright, capable, kids.

I agree with you and would add my own spin:


get rid of CES programs
increase the number of teachers in focus and title 1 ESs (let's start with 2 teachers per classroom)

Why do we spend so much $ on consultants, lawsuits, a bloated bureaucracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do it so that the classes are more diverse. I remember years ago many of the kids from my elementary school who went to magnet programs were white or Asian. The past few years when I look at who was accepted and compare it to the actual performance data, there are kids waitlisted who "qualified" over the accepted students.

No. I believe they did it so that families that could not afford the CoGAT prep schools could have a chance.

But anyone who has plowed through 15 pages of this debate has seen both sides of it by now...

Why not give everyone qualified a chance? Why do you cherish the chance only for select ones? Why are we leaving some kids behind even though they are qualified ?

All of this could be solved with differentated classes at the MS level. It's so easy, and the answer is RIGHT THERE. Create a reasonable cut-off like 90th percentile. Cohort those kids at their home middle school UNLESS there are not enough of them to create a cohort, in which case bus them somewhere that does.

This solves the problem of an undifferentiated MS curriculum, does not require new staff, and cuts down on transportation bills. It would also alleviate 99% of the parental discontent because you would have bright, capable, kids working alongside other bright, capable, kids.

I agree with you and would add my own spin:


get rid of CES programs
increase the number of teachers in focus and title 1 ESs (let's start with 2 teachers per classroom)

Why do we spend so much $ on consultants, lawsuits, a bloated bureaucracy.

And redo the boundaries to minimize transportation costs so the $$$ can be used for education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole magnet thing racist and favoring rich people in general even with the lottery.

A top 100 school district in another state did away with then for “equity” reasons around 20 years ago.

They took that money and instead of focusing on the top 5 percent of students spent it in a new type of magnet school for the bottom 5 percent of students to provide remedial help, better teacher to student rations, provide autistic and help special needs kids and kids with emotional issues.

Why did well off straight A white and Asian kids with college educated parents need extra help.

It is like putting Tom Brady on a bad football team and deciding let’s only give Tom Brady extra help. No you spend resources on the players that need it not the already great players.

There is no way MCPS is creating an entire school filled with poor performing brown kids. The optics would never fly.

It is actually super smart to do. The town I mentioned has a top 100 in US non magnet public school. As high or higher TJ some years. What they did is legally create a second HS. The second HS has no name on building and listed only as a special HS so Niche sends you to the town top rated school.

My sister lives their an examples are a mom died, kids grades slipping, her friend had big medical issues one semester, ESL kids, kids vocational track. Voluntary special needs kids, bullied kids, or handicapped. It is not me to be four years a place to have extra attention. Get you back on track.

But what it does is pulls up the scores on the Public HS way up.

I recall the principal once saying (Asian and shire parents are it up) unlike other school districts HS with magnet and gifted learning for their few gifted students our HS is 100 percent gifted students. We graduate 100 percent gifted and high performing students and unlike other towns where only a select few get this type of amazing education.

It truly was part scam and part genius. He got the egos of the white and Asian parents fed. School rating to shoot up and was able to serve the students who needed most help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole magnet thing racist and favoring rich people in general even with the lottery.

A top 100 school district in another state did away with then for “equity” reasons around 20 years ago.

They took that money and instead of focusing on the top 5 percent of students spent it in a new type of magnet school for the bottom 5 percent of students to provide remedial help, better teacher to student rations, provide autistic and help special needs kids and kids with emotional issues.

Why did well off straight A white and Asian kids with college educated parents need extra help.

It is like putting Tom Brady on a bad football team and deciding let’s only give Tom Brady extra help. No you spend resources on the players that need it not the already great players.

There is no way MCPS is creating an entire school filled with poor performing brown kids. The optics would never fly.

It is actually super smart to do. The town I mentioned has a top 100 in US non magnet public school. As high or higher TJ some years. What they did is legally create a second HS. The second HS has no name on building and listed only as a special HS so Niche sends you to the town top rated school.

My sister lives their an examples are a mom died, kids grades slipping, her friend had big medical issues one semester, ESL kids, kids vocational track. Voluntary special needs kids, bullied kids, or handicapped. It is not me to be four years a place to have extra attention. Get you back on track.

But what it does is pulls up the scores on the Public HS way up.

I recall the principal once saying (Asian and shire parents are it up) unlike other school districts HS with magnet and gifted learning for their few gifted students our HS is 100 percent gifted students. We graduate 100 percent gifted and high performing students and unlike other towns where only a select few get this type of amazing education.

It truly was part scam and part genius. He got the egos of the white and Asian parents fed. School rating to shoot up and was able to serve the students who needed most help.

You are on a discussion board talking about MCPS in Montgomery County, MD. I can barely understand your response above, but, I assume you are not from here. This is a large county-wide district with a signficant portion of students who are on FARMS and/or have special needs designations. We aren't going to be able to stick all the students who need extra help into one high school (or even a couple of high schools).