How many fights did your kid see at Deal this week?

[Anonymous]

Can I just bring it back to the fact that this is a Deal thread, and Deal isn’t doing RJ?

[Anonymous]

In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

What do you suggest?

And I think the issue is that in talking about discipline, the focus is always on the agressor(s) and not on the victims or hundreds of kids whose learning is disrupted. It goes hand in hand with the idea that there is never a cost to non-disrpuptive kids. They can have whole classes disturbed, be scared of walking down halls, etc., and it doesn't factor into the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

Much of the problem stems from spanking children. It teaches kids that hitting is a way to deal with your frustration with someone’s behavior. It also causes aggression in children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

What do you suggest?

And I think the issue is that in talking about discipline, the focus is always on the agressor(s) and not on the victims or hundreds of kids whose learning is disrupted. It goes hand in hand with the idea that there is never a cost to non-disrpuptive kids. They can have whole classes disturbed, be scared of walking down halls, etc., and it doesn't factor into the discussion.

I don’t work at Deal but do the students who are bullying have an actual behavior plan? What is the plan to CHANGE and replace the students behavior? Restorative circles can only do some much if the victim and the bully both have trauma and sometimes being with multiple people make some kids quiet.

The bully needs a behavior plan, second they need to see the school counselor or school social worker weekly, and then the victim also needs to see them but separately. And does Deal have a dean, behavior tech, or anyone who can be the head of essentially an anti-fight/bully initiative?

And it seems like fighting has become part of the school’s culture then that means teachers also have to spend some time even just 5 minutes building a more positive school culture, it starts small in the classroom.

So..
1. Behavior plan- based on actual data and a plan on how to change the behavior.
2. Time with a mental health staff member (aggressor and victim separately)
3. Shift the school’s culture, starting in the classroom
4. Parent advocacy for more mental health team members or whatever staff Deal is lacking in to help address this.

And yes, I realize the focus is on the aggressor because they are the ones whose behavior we are trying to replace/extinguish. I assume it doesn’t interrupt learning in the classroom for long because they are removed (the aggressor).

[Anonymous]

I do work at Deal and no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

What do you suggest?

And I think the issue is that in talking about discipline, the focus is always on the agressor(s) and not on the victims or hundreds of kids whose learning is disrupted. It goes hand in hand with the idea that there is never a cost to non-disrpuptive kids. They can have whole classes disturbed, be scared of walking down halls, etc., and it doesn't factor into the discussion.

I don’t work at Deal but do the students who are bullying have an actual behavior plan? What is the plan to CHANGE and replace the students behavior? Restorative circles can only do some much if the victim and the bully both have trauma and sometimes being with multiple people make some kids quiet.

The bully needs a behavior plan, second they need to see the school counselor or school social worker weekly, and then the victim also needs to see them but separately. And does Deal have a dean, behavior tech, or anyone who can be the head of essentially an anti-fight/bully initiative?

And it seems like fighting has become part of the school’s culture then that means teachers also have to spend some time even just 5 minutes building a more positive school culture, it starts small in the classroom.

So..
1. Behavior plan- based on actual data and a plan on how to change the behavior.
2. Time with a mental health staff member (aggressor and victim separately)
3. Shift the school’s culture, starting in the classroom
4. Parent advocacy for more mental health team members or whatever staff Deal is lacking in to help address this.

And yes, I realize the focus is on the aggressor because they are the ones whose behavior we are trying to replace/extinguish. I assume it doesn’t interrupt learning in the classroom for long because they are removed (the aggressor).

The aggressor is not removed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

What do you suggest?

And I think the issue is that in talking about discipline, the focus is always on the agressor(s) and not on the victims or hundreds of kids whose learning is disrupted. It goes hand in hand with the idea that there is never a cost to non-disrpuptive kids. They can have whole classes disturbed, be scared of walking down halls, etc., and it doesn't factor into the discussion.

I don’t work at Deal but do the students who are bullying have an actual behavior plan? What is the plan to CHANGE and replace the students behavior? Restorative circles can only do some much if the victim and the bully both have trauma and sometimes being with multiple people make some kids quiet.

The bully needs a behavior plan, second they need to see the school counselor or school social worker weekly, and then the victim also needs to see them but separately. And does Deal have a dean, behavior tech, or anyone who can be the head of essentially an anti-fight/bully initiative?

And it seems like fighting has become part of the school’s culture then that means teachers also have to spend some time even just 5 minutes building a more positive school culture, it starts small in the classroom.

So..
1. Behavior plan- based on actual data and a plan on how to change the behavior.
2. Time with a mental health staff member (aggressor and victim separately)
3. Shift the school’s culture, starting in the classroom
4. Parent advocacy for more mental health team members or whatever staff Deal is lacking in to help address this.

And yes, I realize the focus is on the aggressor because they are the ones whose behavior we are trying to replace/extinguish. I assume it doesn’t interrupt learning in the classroom for long because they are removed (the aggressor).

How does this work if the classroom otherwise has a positive culture and the disruptive student is an outlier?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

What do you suggest?

And I think the issue is that in talking about discipline, the focus is always on the agressor(s) and not on the victims or hundreds of kids whose learning is disrupted. It goes hand in hand with the idea that there is never a cost to non-disrpuptive kids. They can have whole classes disturbed, be scared of walking down halls, etc., and it doesn't factor into the discussion.

I don’t work at Deal but do the students who are bullying have an actual behavior plan? What is the plan to CHANGE and replace the students behavior? Restorative circles can only do some much if the victim and the bully both have trauma and sometimes being with multiple people make some kids quiet.

The bully needs a behavior plan, second they need to see the school counselor or school social worker weekly, and then the victim also needs to see them but separately. And does Deal have a dean, behavior tech, or anyone who can be the head of essentially an anti-fight/bully initiative?

And it seems like fighting has become part of the school’s culture then that means teachers also have to spend some time even just 5 minutes building a more positive school culture, it starts small in the classroom.

So..
1. Behavior plan- based on actual data and a plan on how to change the behavior.
2. Time with a mental health staff member (aggressor and victim separately)
3. Shift the school’s culture, starting in the classroom
4. Parent advocacy for more mental health team members or whatever staff Deal is lacking in to help address this.

And yes, I realize the focus is on the aggressor because they are the ones whose behavior we are trying to replace/extinguish. I assume it doesn’t interrupt learning in the classroom for long because they are removed (the aggressor).

The aggressor is not removed.

You are telling me that if a child is hitting peers or staff they just stay in the room the whole or majority time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

What do you suggest?

And I think the issue is that in talking about discipline, the focus is always on the agressor(s) and not on the victims or hundreds of kids whose learning is disrupted. It goes hand in hand with the idea that there is never a cost to non-disrpuptive kids. They can have whole classes disturbed, be scared of walking down halls, etc., and it doesn't factor into the discussion.

I don’t work at Deal but do the students who are bullying have an actual behavior plan? What is the plan to CHANGE and replace the students behavior? Restorative circles can only do some much if the victim and the bully both have trauma and sometimes being with multiple people make some kids quiet.

The bully needs a behavior plan, second they need to see the school counselor or school social worker weekly, and then the victim also needs to see them but separately. And does Deal have a dean, behavior tech, or anyone who can be the head of essentially an anti-fight/bully initiative?

And it seems like fighting has become part of the school’s culture then that means teachers also have to spend some time even just 5 minutes building a more positive school culture, it starts small in the classroom.

So..
1. Behavior plan- based on actual data and a plan on how to change the behavior.
2. Time with a mental health staff member (aggressor and victim separately)
3. Shift the school’s culture, starting in the classroom
4. Parent advocacy for more mental health team members or whatever staff Deal is lacking in to help address this.

And yes, I realize the focus is on the aggressor because they are the ones whose behavior we are trying to replace/extinguish. I assume it doesn’t interrupt learning in the classroom for long because they are removed (the aggressor).

How does this work if the classroom otherwise has a positive culture and the disruptive student is an outlier?

If they are the outlier that’s what step 1 and 2 are for. And ofc as teachers we all know we have to bend over backwards to get the child’s parents on board. We do not want them to feel attacked or think their child is ‘bad.’

I know it’s not a magical solution people want to hear but to change a behavior you actually have to know why. Is it for attention? To escape work? You will never be able to change these students behavior for the long term by giving punitive punishments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the old days teachers used to be able to hit students, should we go back to that since people are saying things from the past have worked the best?

The US has the most people in prison and yet one of the highest crime rates and rates of gun violence, EVEN when we expelled and suspended students.

It.does.not.work. Scared straight was a funny show but a crock of crap. Children who hurt others also need help and hitting someone once is not bullying people, bulling is chronic.

RJ is not something I’m super familiar with as I teach students who have mostly been diagnosed with ED. And let me tell you some of them don’t actually have ED but it’s parents like you or their gen ed teachers who advocated for them to be suspended and put eventually in self contained.

These band aid methods don’t work. These are children and they need help. If a child is being bullied they need help too but their bully being suspended isn’t going to always stop the bully.
We have to figure out the why. Unless the child has a mental disorder there is a function for their behavior.

Deal strikes me as a school not working on the why, just asking them ‘why did you hit ‘X,’ let’s love each other kumbayah’ isn’t what I am talking about.

What do you suggest?

And I think the issue is that in talking about discipline, the focus is always on the agressor(s) and not on the victims or hundreds of kids whose learning is disrupted. It goes hand in hand with the idea that there is never a cost to non-disrpuptive kids. They can have whole classes disturbed, be scared of walking down halls, etc., and it doesn't factor into the discussion.

I don’t work at Deal but do the students who are bullying have an actual behavior plan? What is the plan to CHANGE and replace the students behavior? Restorative circles can only do some much if the victim and the bully both have trauma and sometimes being with multiple people make some kids quiet.

The bully needs a behavior plan, second they need to see the school counselor or school social worker weekly, and then the victim also needs to see them but separately. And does Deal have a dean, behavior tech, or anyone who can be the head of essentially an anti-fight/bully initiative?

And it seems like fighting has become part of the school’s culture then that means teachers also have to spend some time even just 5 minutes building a more positive school culture, it starts small in the classroom.

So..
1. Behavior plan- based on actual data and a plan on how to change the behavior.
2. Time with a mental health staff member (aggressor and victim separately)
3. Shift the school’s culture, starting in the classroom
4. Parent advocacy for more mental health team members or whatever staff Deal is lacking in to help address this.

And yes, I realize the focus is on the aggressor because they are the ones whose behavior we are trying to replace/extinguish. I assume it doesn’t interrupt learning in the classroom for long because they are removed (the aggressor).

The aggressor is not removed.

You are telling me that if a child is hitting peers or staff they just stay in the room the whole or majority time?

Yes