PSA about Dartmouth

[Anonymous]

Ok, then go to one of the schools where all anybody cares about 24/7 are race & gender issues. Those are good places to prepare for the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is Dartmouth in the current Ivy pecking order? I've viewed it more as a great large LAC. Dartmouth and Brown are hard for me to judge since they are not as strong as research institutions as Cornell, Penn, or Columbia but seem to care a lot about undergrad education.

Dartmouth is its own beast, and large LAC is almost a good shorthand for what it feels like. The students who actually get in and say yes are very self-selecting. It’s different from Penn or Columbia where someone might apply as a reach and go regardless of if it’s a fit because of the name alone. The location and vibe of Dartmouth makes for a a very tight-knit campus. Sophomore summer is also unique and gives students interested in internships in DC or NYC or wherever a much better chance at them during a less competitive time of year. Tbh, people at Dartmouth aren’t concerned about where they are in the Ivy pecking order unless they play a sport.

-HYP undergrad, Dartmouth grad alum

I mean…the kids I know going carpet bombed all the Ivies. This was their “best” option based on acceptances.

Not to say they are unhappy with Dartmouth…but they aren’t self-selecting or any different from the kids you describe above.

Doesn’t really make sense. Half the class applied and got in early so by definition it was their top choice. Yeah perhaps a lot of RD admits would have chosen HYP over it only because they are HYP but a lot of them are probably happy HYP didn’t work out because in some ways HYP is lame. I would also suggest that the half the class that comes in RD probably skews towards diversity and first gen (cannot afford to commit ED without seeing FA packages) so it’s a group of kids getting pulled in rather than self-selecting at any particular institution. If there were one Ivy that is self selecting, it is Dartmouth.

You have to parse through ED...it's not that simple. Let's go through it:

- Dartmouth has 4500 undergrads, so 1,125 per class;
- 50% ED, so they accept 563 kids ED;
- Recruited, committed athletes are all ED applicants... so assume 250 kids out of 563 are recruited athletes...only 313 ED kids are non-athletes which are 28% of all accepts;
- For athletes was Dartmouth a top choice...I don't know...my own kid has gotten some interest from Dartmouth coaches and before they showed interest, he never mentioned the school once. The adage in athletic recruiting is..."You want to go where you are wanted"...sounds simple right, but an athlete thinks "If Dartmouth is interested, then Yale and Harvard must be as well"...which is not the correct way to think. Do I think he could be happy there...sure...but is it their "top" choice...wasn't a month ago. It is all "pie in the sky" right now.

You see lots of football players in Spring of HS junior year tweeting their visits to Dartmouth, Cornell, Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, etc. All the same tweet...so enjoyed my visit with Coach and would be honored to play at [IVY] college. They all show a picture of the kid in full football gear inside the school locker room. Seems like the same football player is recruited by all the schools.
- Legacy applicants are likely to be ED...I know in our HS you have lots of Ivy legacies making the calculation that I would prefer to go to X, but I am applying to where I have legacy status because I would rather go to Legacy Y vs. taking my shot at X, not getting accepted...and now I have to go to school Z. These are wise calculations when these schools have 5% acceptance rates.

There are always games with these places.

Fair point. I still think Dartmouth is as self selecting as any school because of its uniqueness. Look at the end of the day almost any student would choose to attend HYPSM if they could just for the brand value. Or their parents would make them!

I applied to and got into Dartmouth back in the day. I didn't carpet bomb the Ivies. I always think it's odd when people do that, as they really are very different schools. I applied to just 2 Ivies that spoke to me, including Dartmouth which I liked very much. But in the end, I didn't go there. I also got into two in the HYPSM group, and I picked one of those instead. It's very, very hard to turn down one of those top tier schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is Dartmouth in the current Ivy pecking order? I've viewed it more as a great large LAC. Dartmouth and Brown are hard for me to judge since they are not as strong as research institutions as Cornell, Penn, or Columbia but seem to care a lot about undergrad education.

Dartmouth is its own beast, and large LAC is almost a good shorthand for what it feels like. The students who actually get in and say yes are very self-selecting. It’s different from Penn or Columbia where someone might apply as a reach and go regardless of if it’s a fit because of the name alone. The location and vibe of Dartmouth makes for a a very tight-knit campus. Sophomore summer is also unique and gives students interested in internships in DC or NYC or wherever a much better chance at them during a less competitive time of year. Tbh, people at Dartmouth aren’t concerned about where they are in the Ivy pecking order unless they play a sport.

-HYP undergrad, Dartmouth grad alum

I mean…the kids I know going carpet bombed all the Ivies. This was their “best” option based on acceptances.

Not to say they are unhappy with Dartmouth…but they aren’t self-selecting or any different from the kids you describe above.

Doesn’t really make sense. Half the class applied and got in early so by definition it was their top choice. Yeah perhaps a lot of RD admits would have chosen HYP over it only because they are HYP but a lot of them are probably happy HYP didn’t work out because in some ways HYP is lame. I would also suggest that the half the class that comes in RD probably skews towards diversity and first gen (cannot afford to commit ED without seeing FA packages) so it’s a group of kids getting pulled in rather than self-selecting at any particular institution. If there were one Ivy that is self selecting, it is Dartmouth.

You have to parse through ED...it's not that simple. Let's go through it:

- Dartmouth has 4500 undergrads, so 1,125 per class;
- 50% ED, so they accept 563 kids ED;
- Recruited, committed athletes are all ED applicants... so assume 250 kids out of 563 are recruited athletes...only 313 ED kids are non-athletes which are 28% of all accepts;
- For athletes was Dartmouth a top choice...I don't know...my own kid has gotten some interest from Dartmouth coaches and before they showed interest, he never mentioned the school once. The adage in athletic recruiting is..."You want to go where you are wanted"...sounds simple right, but an athlete thinks "If Dartmouth is interested, then Yale and Harvard must be as well"...which is not the correct way to think. Do I think he could be happy there...sure...but is it their "top" choice...wasn't a month ago. It is all "pie in the sky" right now.

You see lots of football players in Spring of HS junior year tweeting their visits to Dartmouth, Cornell, Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, etc. All the same tweet...so enjoyed my visit with Coach and would be honored to play at [IVY] college. They all show a picture of the kid in full football gear inside the school locker room. Seems like the same football player is recruited by all the schools.
- Legacy applicants are likely to be ED...I know in our HS you have lots of Ivy legacies making the calculation that I would prefer to go to X, but I am applying to where I have legacy status because I would rather go to Legacy Y vs. taking my shot at X, not getting accepted...and now I have to go to school Z. These are wise calculations when these schools have 5% acceptance rates.

There are always games with these places.

Fair point. I still think Dartmouth is as self selecting as any school because of its uniqueness. Look at the end of the day almost any student would choose to attend HYPSM if they could just for the brand value. Or their parents would make them!

I applied to and got into Dartmouth back in the day. I didn't carpet bomb the Ivies. I always think it's odd when people do that, as they really are very different schools. I applied to just 2 Ivies that spoke to me, including Dartmouth which I liked very much. But in the end, I didn't go there. I also got into two in the HYPSM group, and I picked one of those instead. It's very, very hard to turn down one of those top tier schools.

Princeton and Dartmouth make a ton of sense app overlap wise.
HYPSM are also all not true equals, especially depending on interest areas. It is interesting to see the grouping used all the time on DCUM.
There is a good discussion of MIT's weaknesses in the humanities on another thread. Also, Yale was late to the CS party (but is doing a lot now).
HYS have a different level of international name recognition and acclaim than Dartmouth, MIT, and Princeton too, especially in the developed/western world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting read.

https://www.koppelmangroup.com/blog/2018/3/14/schools-similar-to-dartmouth

That article is interesting. A lot of LACs on the list. I've heard the Vandy comparison before too.
The social scene and Hanover environment are good to know about. Unlike Penn or Brown or Vandy, you don't many off-campus options. It is most like Williams to me in that regard.

Several years ago, I read this article a couple times. Used to have Case Western Reserve on the list as well, but apparently this school was removed after many disagreed.

Vanderbilt isn't really as similar to Dartmouth as the article suggests. Vanderbilt is much larger & it is located in a lively city--Nashville. The key to Dartmouth College is its rural, isolated location. (Vanderbilt is much more similar to Northwestern University, Duke, Emory, WashUStL, and Rice than it is to Dartmouth College.)

Dartmouth isn't really similar to Kenyon College either. The demographics at Kenyon have shifted to being very liberal & rural, isolated Kenyon College is tiny. The difference is that Dartmouth attracts more mainstream students and has a decent sized student body that enhances the rural, isolated location while Kenyon's tiny student body makes the rural, isolated location seem constricting. (Kenyon College is more similar to Grinnell College & Hamilton College.)

Dartmouth College is similar to Colgate & Middlebury & Bucknell & Colby.

A lot of misunderstanding here. Kenyon certainly has a lot of liberal students but every single one of these schools does, especially Dartmouth. In terms of wokeness (liberal to the point of dogmatism) Kenyon does a far better job avoiding it than most. https://reason.com/2019/05/02/10-colleges-where-you-wont-have-to-walk-on-eggshells/

In terms of size, Kenyon is basically the same size as the other LACs mentioned with some 1800 students. Dartmouth is compared to these LACs because it actually is pretty small for an Ivy with 4500.

Everyone single one of the schools mentioned above are basically in the middle of nowhere including Dartmouth but Kenyon is in fact an hour away from Columbus which has a population of nearly one million.

Culturally and geographically, all of these schools have a lot in common. Bizarre that you would think Hamilton and Colby are at different ends of any sort of spectrum. Hamilton in fact is often considered a very preppy school that has the sort of kids you imagine going to Dartmouth. But I think your perception of a typical Dartmouth student is dated. In general, your stereotypes are dated or just off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting read.

https://www.koppelmangroup.com/blog/2018/3/14/schools-similar-to-dartmouth

That article is interesting. A lot of LACs on the list. I've heard the Vandy comparison before too.
The social scene and Hanover environment are good to know about. Unlike Penn or Brown or Vandy, you don't many off-campus options. It is most like Williams to me in that regard.

Several years ago, I read this article a couple times. Used to have Case Western Reserve on the list as well, but apparently this school was removed after many disagreed.

Vanderbilt isn't really as similar to Dartmouth as the article suggests. Vanderbilt is much larger & it is located in a lively city--Nashville. The key to Dartmouth College is its rural, isolated location. (Vanderbilt is much more similar to Northwestern University, Duke, Emory, WashUStL, and Rice than it is to Dartmouth College.)

Dartmouth isn't really similar to Kenyon College either. The demographics at Kenyon have shifted to being very liberal & rural, isolated Kenyon College is tiny. The difference is that Dartmouth attracts more mainstream students and has a decent sized student body that enhances the rural, isolated location while Kenyon's tiny student body makes the rural, isolated location seem constricting. (Kenyon College is more similar to Grinnell College & Hamilton College.)

Dartmouth College is similar to Colgate & Middlebury & Bucknell & Colby.

A lot of misunderstanding here. Kenyon certainly has a lot of liberal students but every single one of these schools does, especially Dartmouth. In terms of wokeness (liberal to the point of dogmatism) Kenyon does a far better job avoiding it than most. https://reason.com/2019/05/02/10-colleges-where-you-wont-have-to-walk-on-eggshells/

In terms of size, Kenyon is basically the same size as the other LACs mentioned with some 1800 students. Dartmouth is compared to these LACs because it actually is pretty small for an Ivy with 4500.

Everyone single one of the schools mentioned above are basically in the middle of nowhere including Dartmouth but Kenyon is in fact an hour away from Columbus which has a population of nearly one million.

Culturally and geographically, all of these schools have a lot in common. Bizarre that you would think Hamilton and Colby are at different ends of any sort of spectrum. Hamilton in fact is often considered a very preppy school that has the sort of kids you imagine going to Dartmouth. But I think your perception of a typical Dartmouth student is dated. In general, your stereotypes are dated or just off.

^ and sadly Dartmouth is trending in the direction of its Ivy peers and turning into just another woke madras https://www.realcleareducation.com/articles/2020/11/06/dartmouths_free_speech_decline_110502.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you not get enough attention bragging to your friends about your kid's ivy acceptance so need to seek out some strangers? Everyone already knows this is a good school.

NP-- such a mean response. Let the poster enjoy a little afterglow instead of getting your claws out and snarking.

I am just so tired of parents trying to flex on this. I think we would all agree that for every kid admitted, there are many more that were on paper qualified and would do well at these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you not get enough attention bragging to your friends about your kid's ivy acceptance so need to seek out some strangers? Everyone already knows this is a good school.

NP-- such a mean response. Let the poster enjoy a little afterglow instead of getting your claws out and snarking.

I am just so tired of parents trying to flex on this. I think we would all agree that for every kid admitted, there are many more that were on paper qualified and would do well at these schools.

As an HYP grad, one problem of attending a super selective school is that you have to be more cautious of evincing school pride (because you look like a total a-hole) whereas families that are connected with slightly less prestigious schools (say Michigan) can run around proudly. This may be the only outlet where the mom above can flex without risking social repercussions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is also still September. Wait until December-February before making a broad PSA about Dartmouth!

If it never got cold, how could we wear our moncler?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you not get enough attention bragging to your friends about your kid's ivy acceptance so need to seek out some strangers? Everyone already knows this is a good school.

NP-- such a mean response. Let the poster enjoy a little afterglow instead of getting your claws out and snarking.

I am just so tired of parents trying to flex on this. I think we would all agree that for every kid admitted, there are many more that were on paper qualified and would do well at these schools.

As an HYP grad, one problem of attending a super selective school is that you have to be more cautious of evincing school pride (because you look like a total a-hole) whereas families that are connected with slightly less prestigious schools (say Michigan) can run around proudly. This may be the only outlet where the mom above can flex without risking social repercussions.

I think there’s a difference between public school pride tho.

the vast majority of people regardless of school affiliation get this - I notice you used Michigan as your example vs say Georgetown or WUSTL

Yeah “go blue” is kinda cringe but Michigan’s private peers are even more cringe to flex even amongst private school crowd. It just feels icky

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting read.

https://www.koppelmangroup.com/blog/2018/3/14/schools-similar-to-dartmouth

Lewisburg is nothing like Hanover though

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you not get enough attention bragging to your friends about your kid's ivy acceptance so need to seek out some strangers? Everyone already knows this is a good school.

NP-- such a mean response. Let the poster enjoy a little afterglow instead of getting your claws out and snarking.

I am just so tired of parents trying to flex on this. I think we would all agree that for every kid admitted, there are many more that were on paper qualified and would do well at these schools.

As an HYP grad, one problem of attending a super selective school is that you have to be more cautious of evincing school pride (because you look like a total a-hole) whereas families that are connected with slightly less prestigious schools (say Michigan) can run around proudly. This may be the only outlet where the mom above can flex without risking social repercussions.

I think there’s a difference between public school pride tho.

the vast majority of people regardless of school affiliation get this - I notice you used Michigan as your example vs say Georgetown or WUSTL

Yeah “go blue” is kinda cringe but Michigan’s private peers are even more cringe to flex even amongst private school crowd. It just feels icky

The less elite the school, the safer it is to flex. And the more praise you will receive as to how great the school is.

[Anonymous]

HYP all have terrible football teams. I see college gear mostly on Fridays and Saturdays during the fall here. Lots of Michigan, Georgia, Alabama, ect. People are flexing based on the football program and not the quality of school. I find your observation hilarious.
During the rest of the year, HYP people wear their shirts and hats about as often as other schools of comparable size.
During basketball season, you'll see a lot more Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and Georgetown stuff in DC too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HYP all have terrible football teams. I see college gear mostly on Fridays and Saturdays during the fall here. Lots of Michigan, Georgia, Alabama, ect. People are flexing based on the football program and not the quality of school. I find your observation hilarious.
During the rest of the year, HYP people wear their shirts and hats about as often as other schools of comparable size.
During basketball season, you'll see a lot more Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and Georgetown stuff in DC too!

As a HYP graduate, You have to worry about not flexing but also not not flexing- like hiding the information because you think It’s so great they can’t handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you not get enough attention bragging to your friends about your kid's ivy acceptance so need to seek out some strangers? Everyone already knows this is a good school.

NP-- such a mean response. Let the poster enjoy a little afterglow instead of getting your claws out and snarking.

I am just so tired of parents trying to flex on this. I think we would all agree that for every kid admitted, there are many more that were on paper qualified and would do well at these schools.

As an HYP grad, one problem of attending a super selective school is that you have to be more cautious of evincing school pride (because you look like a total a-hole) whereas families that are connected with slightly less prestigious schools (say Michigan) can run around proudly. This may be the only outlet where the mom above can flex without risking social repercussions.

People end up looking worse in an amusing way trying to hide where they went. When I hear someone talk about going to school in Palo Alto, I go into a little monologue about Palo Alto University and it really throws people off in a funny way. My HY friends joke about how comparatively bad the football and basketball teams are since on an early football season Saturday, they can be in the minority not wearing any gear.

DC has far more people wearing HYP and general college stuff than I've seen before though. People here wear shirts showing off where they went to school in the same way they do where they work in the Bay Area. I'd see as much Google, Meta, Palantir, and Amazon swag as Stanford and Cal there.

Also, do everyone's seniors wear almost nothing but college shirts from May-August? This summer seemed like nothing but college shirts on the kids in our local coffee shop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYP all have terrible football teams. I see college gear mostly on Fridays and Saturdays during the fall here. Lots of Michigan, Georgia, Alabama, ect. People are flexing based on the football program and not the quality of school. I find your observation hilarious.
During the rest of the year, HYP people wear their shirts and hats about as often as other schools of comparable size.
During basketball season, you'll see a lot more Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and Georgetown stuff in DC too!

As a HYP graduate, You have to worry about not flexing but also not not flexing- like hiding the information because you think It’s so great they can’t handle it.

Not to throw P under the bus too much since it is an amazing school but it isn't as impressive to most people. Would they even be able to tell you Princeton's colors or anything?
I wouldn't worry about "flexing" Princeton in the same way as HYS. It is more like any other Ivy when "flexing." Many will know but the general population wouldn't be at all annoyed.