The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

So, for an Asian Death and Dying (and Mysticism)TM focused season, I don't know how they'll possibly avoid invoking all the crazy stereotypes.

Seductive Asian women who are also somehow wise being the balm of the soul of old white dudes. Who screw them and then leave.

Wise shaman types (Pat Morita anyone?) who proscribe knowledge in a superficial bid to get rich which people (probably women) to have realizations about life (again, likely superficial, but they feel profound at the time.)

Don't get me wrong, I'll watch every second, but there are many well trodden plot devices out there. We'll see if any are employed in the next White Lotus.

Who do I want to see back? I want to learn more about Daphne and Cameron. I feel like we just scratched the surface.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't remember where I read this but in some chat someone said the next season will actually be set in the Maldives and they'll bring back Cameron and Daphne, since they had that line "can't wait til next trip to the Maldives!" I wouldn't be surprised since Daphne was such an amazing character. I'd watch a show just of her traipsing around a strip mall.

Daphne was a really compelling character, I agree. Although part of what made her compelling but not knowing for sure what her game was/what the deal was with the marriage, and I feel like we got somewhat of a reveal at the end. So I'm not sure I would find another season of them as interesting

I don't know why everyone found her so compelling. She basically just bleated her "I'm not a victim. Do you what you need to do" mantra over and over again. She seemed pretty one-note to me.

Because millions of women are treated like crap by their shack up boyfriends and husbands, so Daphne rationalizing that it's okay to be treated like dirt as long as you smugly and passive-aggressively treat him like dirt in return was seen as some sort of empowering feminist gobbledygook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the 3 DiGrasso men plotline had the most "dropped" threads. I really thought that we were moving towards a confrontation involving Lucia and some combination of the three of them over her scam to get the money. Or a fight between Albie and Dom when Albie discovers that Dom was a Lucia client. Or a fight between Albie and Cameron when Albie tries to get Lucia her money. Or Dom's wife shows up and finds out that the girls are registered guests on the room. Or something

I don't hate how it turned out, and I enjoyed the Albie/Portia reunion, but it seemed like a lot of buildup for kind of a nothing ending for that crew

I agree completely. I guess there wasn't enough time, but I thought there would be some kind of a big explosion there. That said, the family was strong enough to plan a three generation trip that was mostly cancelled, so maybe the point was about how if you have something holding you together (commitment to family) it will keep on holding you together. Whereas most other characters didn't have much to hold them together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, for an Asian Death and Dying (and Mysticism)TM focused season, I don't know how they'll possibly avoid invoking all the crazy stereotypes.

Seductive Asian women who are also somehow wise being the balm of the soul of old white dudes. Who screw them and then leave.

Wise shaman types (Pat Morita anyone?) who proscribe knowledge in a superficial bid to get rich which people (probably women) to have realizations about life (again, likely superficial, but they feel profound at the time.)

Don't get me wrong, I'll watch every second, but there are many well trodden plot devices out there. We'll see if any are employed in the next White Lotus.

Who do I want to see back? I want to learn more about Daphne and Cameron. I feel like we just scratched the surface.

Asia is huge. It’s not cheap to film in half of it either. Easiest in SE island Asia/Vietnam or Tahiti. More difficult and expensive in Japan, even India, Malaysia, s Korea.
China a no go.

I don’t think white needs Asia.

[Anonymous]

I think it's interesting that Ethan knew Harper was lying because she knew or was close enough to Cameron to criticize him openly and tell him he was a jerk for criticizing poor employees who fought for better treatment the way he was doing at the table. Harper from earlier in the vacation would have just bottled that criticism up for later -- but now I guess she had her own relationship with him that wasn't dependent on Ethan's so she could tell him to his face that he was a jerk. I thought that was an interesting observation by Ethan.

I also thought it was interesting that if Lucia had at any time betrayed Dom's secret that she wouldn't have gotten the giant payoff. If she had told Alvie, Alvie wouldn't have lobbied Dom. If she had threatened Dom that she would tell Alvie, I don't think Dom would have paid (because it was Alvie's promise to put in a word for Dom that got him to pay, not keeping his secret). It must have been tempting to use that info, but she walked a thin line and didn't and it really paid off for her. I like PP's observation that now she can use the money to open her shop. yay.

[Anonymous]

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Agreed, but I don't think many people here are arguing that Harper is perfect or had no flaws. It's that some people are pointing out that she's not a total villain with no redeeming qualities and that (1) she might actually love her husband, and (2) she might have some positive qualities that make him love her. And there is one person on here who has decided that we're all idiots who are obsessed with Aubrey Plaza because obviously Harper is a vicious and manipulative harpy.

That is true though. Plaza is the most famous character, especially to all the millennials obsessed with White Lotus. Young people are captivated by her and think she's so witty and funny and totally them, so you don't want to acknowledge even the possibility that she's just as much of a ruthless striver, manipulator and conniver as everyone else on the show. To me, the only pure leading character was Bert.

No, it's not true. People are pointing out that Harper was flawed and complicated, like all the white lotus characters, but not a one-dimensional villain. Meanwhile you keep insisting she is in fact a total villain running a years-long scam aimed at getting Ethan's money when every indication is that, despite her flaws, she married Ethan as an equal partner and just wanted a normal UMC life with a loving husband and some kids and a job.

Years-long scam? I wouldn't necessarily go that far. Unsure about how many years but it's clear Harper's quite cunning and manipulative. And there is some urgency involved in her scheming because he just cashed out, their marriage is sexless, he's not sexually attracted to her even in the most romantic setting, and she's on the wrong side of 30, which means tick-tock on her own beauty and fertility. There's a very long thread in the relationship forum about selfish men who steal a partner's fertility. This is a very real and very valid concern among women Harper's age. What are her prospects if they divorce? She gets a chunk of money, okay. Is her next husband a high status Yale tech titan? No. He's one in a million, she's a dime a dozen late 30s lawyer. How long does it take her to find a new husband? This would all fuel a survival instinct in her to do any and all things necessary to lure him back into her web. Attorneys, like actresses, are professional liars paid to manipulate an audience. Harper's a seasoned pro and she played her husband like a fiddle.

The funniest part of this is that you keep trying to tell a message board full of lawyers that you know Harper was manipulating Ethan because she is - wait for it - a lawyer. CASE CLOSED

By "message board full of lawyers" you mean paralegals, de facto unemployed doc review proles, and bottom of their class law students who became wfh gs-nobodies, who are so secure in their life they seize on a forum typo and can post about an HBO soap opera all work day? Yeah, super prestigious high-powered lawyers. We are all very impressed.

No, this message board has lots of actual lawyers. Lawyers watch tv shows and procrastinate and waste time at work too. Sorry if that upsets you.

Upset? We are all in awe and so impressed by brilliant legal minds who have the idle time to come to the defense of some lawyer whore on TV who likely exposed her pushover husband to insurable HSV-2 herpes (and all sorts of other fun incurable disease) after a tryst with his disgusting college roommate. But she's so sarcastic and snarky, what's not to like!

"Lawyer whore"? Omg. You are so deeply unhinged

Also, if Ethan slept with Daphne (which he did) he was already choosing to expose himself to any disease Cameron has.

That happened after, if at all. There is zero doubt Harper flirted with and then boned Cameron (to torment her husband).

There actually is doubt as to whether Harper had penetrative sex with Cameron. We were not given a clear answer on that either way. Whereas we were given a much clearer indication that Ethan had sex with Daphne.

I don't think in either of these examples it was at all clear what happened--that was the point. People project their own beliefs, insecurities, etc. onto these situations. Hence the frothing-at-the-mouth Harper-hating incel troll.

I'm happily married and have never cheated on my husband. And I don't defend or rationalize immoral sleazy television characters who do. When you do come to the spirited defense of such distasteful (but sardonic and witty!) characters, I think we all know why.

Because life is not black and white? If you think it is, White Lotus is not the show for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Harper hater has a personality disorder. We should all probably move on.

Totally! Very crazy!

[Anonymous]

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Agreed, but I don't think many people here are arguing that Harper is perfect or had no flaws. It's that some people are pointing out that she's not a total villain with no redeeming qualities and that (1) she might actually love her husband, and (2) she might have some positive qualities that make him love her. And there is one person on here who has decided that we're all idiots who are obsessed with Aubrey Plaza because obviously Harper is a vicious and manipulative harpy.

That is true though. Plaza is the most famous character, especially to all the millennials obsessed with White Lotus. Young people are captivated by her and think she's so witty and funny and totally them, so you don't want to acknowledge even the possibility that she's just as much of a ruthless striver, manipulator and conniver as everyone else on the show. To me, the only pure leading character was Bert.

No, it's not true. People are pointing out that Harper was flawed and complicated, like all the white lotus characters, but not a one-dimensional villain. Meanwhile you keep insisting she is in fact a total villain running a years-long scam aimed at getting Ethan's money when every indication is that, despite her flaws, she married Ethan as an equal partner and just wanted a normal UMC life with a loving husband and some kids and a job.

Years-long scam? I wouldn't necessarily go that far. Unsure about how many years but it's clear Harper's quite cunning and manipulative. And there is some urgency involved in her scheming because he just cashed out, their marriage is sexless, he's not sexually attracted to her even in the most romantic setting, and she's on the wrong side of 30, which means tick-tock on her own beauty and fertility. There's a very long thread in the relationship forum about selfish men who steal a partner's fertility. This is a very real and very valid concern among women Harper's age. What are her prospects if they divorce? She gets a chunk of money, okay. Is her next husband a high status Yale tech titan? No. He's one in a million, she's a dime a dozen late 30s lawyer. How long does it take her to find a new husband? This would all fuel a survival instinct in her to do any and all things necessary to lure him back into her web. Attorneys, like actresses, are professional liars paid to manipulate an audience. Harper's a seasoned pro and she played her husband like a fiddle.

The funniest part of this is that you keep trying to tell a message board full of lawyers that you know Harper was manipulating Ethan because she is - wait for it - a lawyer. CASE CLOSED

By "message board full of lawyers" you mean paralegals, de facto unemployed doc review proles, and bottom of their class law students who became wfh gs-nobodies, who are so secure in their life they seize on a forum typo and can post about an HBO soap opera all work day? Yeah, super prestigious high-powered lawyers. We are all very impressed.

No, this message board has lots of actual lawyers. Lawyers watch tv shows and procrastinate and waste time at work too. Sorry if that upsets you.

Upset? We are all in awe and so impressed by brilliant legal minds who have the idle time to come to the defense of some lawyer whore on TV who likely exposed her pushover husband to insurable HSV-2 herpes (and all sorts of other fun incurable disease) after a tryst with his disgusting college roommate. But she's so sarcastic and snarky, what's not to like!

"Lawyer whore"? Omg. You are so deeply unhinged

Also, if Ethan slept with Daphne (which he did) he was already choosing to expose himself to any disease Cameron has.

That happened after, if at all. There is zero doubt Harper flirted with and then boned Cameron (to torment her husband).

There actually is doubt as to whether Harper had penetrative sex with Cameron. We were not given a clear answer on that either way. Whereas we were given a much clearer indication that Ethan had sex with Daphne.

I don't think in either of these examples it was at all clear what happened--that was the point. People project their own beliefs, insecurities, etc. onto these situations. Hence the frothing-at-the-mouth Harper-hating incel troll.

I'm happily married and have never cheated on my husband. And I don't defend or rationalize immoral sleazy television characters who do. When you do come to the spirited defense of such distasteful (but sardonic and witty!) characters, I think we all know why.

Because life is not black and white? If you think it is, White Lotus is not the show for you.

Cheating on your spouse is very black and white. As is potentially spreading incurable sexually transmitted disease(s) to your husband after having raw sex with his disgusting college friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's interesting that Ethan knew Harper was lying because she knew or was close enough to Cameron to criticize him openly and tell him he was a jerk for criticizing poor employees who fought for better treatment the way he was doing at the table. Harper from earlier in the vacation would have just bottled that criticism up for later -- but now I guess she had her own relationship with him that wasn't dependent on Ethan's so she could tell him to his face that he was a jerk. I thought that was an interesting observation by Ethan.

I also thought it was interesting that if Lucia had at any time betrayed Dom's secret that she wouldn't have gotten the giant payoff. If she had told Alvie, Alvie wouldn't have lobbied Dom. If she had threatened Dom that she would tell Alvie, I don't think Dom would have paid (because it was Alvie's promise to put in a word for Dom that got him to pay, not keeping his secret). It must have been tempting to use that info, but she walked a thin line and didn't and it really paid off for her. I like PP's observation that now she can use the money to open her shop. yay.

Me again. But it's like Harper only takes the time to be honest with people she somewhat cares about. So she didn't care enough about Cameron to call him out at the beginning of the trip. When Tanya was having trouble at the buffet she lied about "oh I think someone is coming to help you" and ran away. She lied to Cameron and Daphne to varying degrees about Ethan and herself. She lied to Cameron in the ocean about liking him. But once she knew him better, she called him out for being a jerk, the same way she calls out Ethan and Ethan calls her out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's interesting that Ethan knew Harper was lying because she knew or was close enough to Cameron to criticize him openly and tell him he was a jerk for criticizing poor employees who fought for better treatment the way he was doing at the table. Harper from earlier in the vacation would have just bottled that criticism up for later -- but now I guess she had her own relationship with him that wasn't dependent on Ethan's so she could tell him to his face that he was a jerk. I thought that was an interesting observation by Ethan.

I also thought it was interesting that if Lucia had at any time betrayed Dom's secret that she wouldn't have gotten the giant payoff. If she had told Alvie, Alvie wouldn't have lobbied Dom. If she had threatened Dom that she would tell Alvie, I don't think Dom would have paid (because it was Alvie's promise to put in a word for Dom that got him to pay, not keeping his secret). It must have been tempting to use that info, but she walked a thin line and didn't and it really paid off for her. I like PP's observation that now she can use the money to open her shop. yay.

I think she was just more open about her feelings because it was the last day of the trip, so she didn't have to face him for the next week after insulting him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can't remember where I read this but in some chat someone said the next season will actually be set in the Maldives and they'll bring back Cameron and Daphne, since they had that line "can't wait til next trip to the Maldives!" I wouldn't be surprised since Daphne was such an amazing character. I'd watch a show just of her traipsing around a strip mall.

Daphne was a really compelling character, I agree. Although part of what made her compelling but not knowing for sure what her game was/what the deal was with the marriage, and I feel like we got somewhat of a reveal at the end. So I'm not sure I would find another season of them as interesting

I don't know why everyone found her so compelling. She basically just bleated her "I'm not a victim. Do you what you need to do" mantra over and over again. She seemed pretty one-note to me.

Because millions of women are treated like crap by their shack up boyfriends and husbands, so Daphne rationalizing that it's okay to be treated like dirt as long as you smugly and passive-aggressively treat him like dirt in return was seen as some sort of empowering feminist gobbledygook.

For me it was that she was so glamorous and breezy but there was clearly something sinister under the surface, which was slowly revealed as the show went on. Also she and Cameron are an insanely attractive couple with a lot of chemistry, which made them fun to watch. But I am certainly not "team Daphne" and I don't think she or their marriage is anything aspirational (except that I aspire to look and dress like her)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:
Agreed, but I don't think many people here are arguing that Harper is perfect or had no flaws. It's that some people are pointing out that she's not a total villain with no redeeming qualities and that (1) she might actually love her husband, and (2) she might have some positive qualities that make him love her. And there is one person on here who has decided that we're all idiots who are obsessed with Aubrey Plaza because obviously Harper is a vicious and manipulative harpy.

That is true though. Plaza is the most famous character, especially to all the millennials obsessed with White Lotus. Young people are captivated by her and think she's so witty and funny and totally them, so you don't want to acknowledge even the possibility that she's just as much of a ruthless striver, manipulator and conniver as everyone else on the show. To me, the only pure leading character was Bert.

No, it's not true. People are pointing out that Harper was flawed and complicated, like all the white lotus characters, but not a one-dimensional villain. Meanwhile you keep insisting she is in fact a total villain running a years-long scam aimed at getting Ethan's money when every indication is that, despite her flaws, she married Ethan as an equal partner and just wanted a normal UMC life with a loving husband and some kids and a job.

Years-long scam? I wouldn't necessarily go that far. Unsure about how many years but it's clear Harper's quite cunning and manipulative. And there is some urgency involved in her scheming because he just cashed out, their marriage is sexless, he's not sexually attracted to her even in the most romantic setting, and she's on the wrong side of 30, which means tick-tock on her own beauty and fertility. There's a very long thread in the relationship forum about selfish men who steal a partner's fertility. This is a very real and very valid concern among women Harper's age. What are her prospects if they divorce? She gets a chunk of money, okay. Is her next husband a high status Yale tech titan? No. He's one in a million, she's a dime a dozen late 30s lawyer. How long does it take her to find a new husband? This would all fuel a survival instinct in her to do any and all things necessary to lure him back into her web. Attorneys, like actresses, are professional liars paid to manipulate an audience. Harper's a seasoned pro and she played her husband like a fiddle.

The funniest part of this is that you keep trying to tell a message board full of lawyers that you know Harper was manipulating Ethan because she is - wait for it - a lawyer. CASE CLOSED

By "message board full of lawyers" you mean paralegals, de facto unemployed doc review proles, and bottom of their class law students who became wfh gs-nobodies, who are so secure in their life they seize on a forum typo and can post about an HBO soap opera all work day? Yeah, super prestigious high-powered lawyers. We are all very impressed.

No, this message board has lots of actual lawyers. Lawyers watch tv shows and procrastinate and waste time at work too. Sorry if that upsets you.

Upset? We are all in awe and so impressed by brilliant legal minds who have the idle time to come to the defense of some lawyer whore on TV who likely exposed her pushover husband to insurable HSV-2 herpes (and all sorts of other fun incurable disease) after a tryst with his disgusting college roommate. But she's so sarcastic and snarky, what's not to like!

"Lawyer whore"? Omg. You are so deeply unhinged

Also, if Ethan slept with Daphne (which he did) he was already choosing to expose himself to any disease Cameron has.

That happened after, if at all. There is zero doubt Harper flirted with and then boned Cameron (to torment her husband).

There actually is doubt as to whether Harper had penetrative sex with Cameron. We were not given a clear answer on that either way. Whereas we were given a much clearer indication that Ethan had sex with Daphne.

I don't think in either of these examples it was at all clear what happened--that was the point. People project their own beliefs, insecurities, etc. onto these situations. Hence the frothing-at-the-mouth Harper-hating incel troll.

I'm happily married and have never cheated on my husband. And I don't defend or rationalize immoral sleazy television characters who do. When you do come to the spirited defense of such distasteful (but sardonic and witty!) characters, I think we all know why.

Because life is not black and white? If you think it is, White Lotus is not the show for you.

Cheating on your spouse is very black and white. As is potentially spreading incurable sexually transmitted disease(s) to your husband after having raw sex with his disgusting college friend.

You people who think everyone is crawling with STIs are hilarious. And yes, there are shades of gray to adultery. Who taught you about this, Mr. Rogers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most unrealistic thing on the show was how often Daphne was laying out in the direct sunlight without a hat.

No late-30s freckled blonde who cares about their skin is doing that.

Yup. Especially with so many umbrellas to be had and lovely beach assistants who could help with them.

I've been looking at Daphne's sun-damaged chest the whole season. It's pretty bad for late 30's. I hope it's makeup for the show, because the actress is only 32! So maybe being a freckled blonde and laying out in the sun is realistic.

[Anonymous]

Interesting to see who received Golden Globe nomination - I like Coolidge, not sure about the others.

Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role in a Series, Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television

F. Murray Abraham, “The White Lotus”


Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role in a Series, Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television

Jennifer Coolidge, “The White Lotus”

Aubrey Plaza, “The White Lotus”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's interesting that Ethan knew Harper was lying because she knew or was close enough to Cameron to criticize him openly and tell him he was a jerk for criticizing poor employees who fought for better treatment the way he was doing at the table. Harper from earlier in the vacation would have just bottled that criticism up for later -- but now I guess she had her own relationship with him that wasn't dependent on Ethan's so she could tell him to his face that he was a jerk. I thought that was an interesting observation by Ethan.

I also thought it was interesting that if Lucia had at any time betrayed Dom's secret that she wouldn't have gotten the giant payoff. If she had told Alvie, Alvie wouldn't have lobbied Dom. If she had threatened Dom that she would tell Alvie, I don't think Dom would have paid (because it was Alvie's promise to put in a word for Dom that got him to pay, not keeping his secret). It must have been tempting to use that info, but she walked a thin line and didn't and it really paid off for her. I like PP's observation that now she can use the money to open her shop. yay.

Me again. But it's like Harper only takes the time to be honest with people she somewhat cares about. So she didn't care enough about Cameron to call him out at the beginning of the trip. When Tanya was having trouble at the buffet she lied about "oh I think someone is coming to help you" and ran away. She lied to Cameron and Daphne to varying degrees about Ethan and herself. She lied to Cameron in the ocean about liking him. But once she knew him better, she called him out for being a jerk, the same way she calls out Ethan and Ethan calls her out.

I knew Ethan was going to see it as a tell as soon as it happened. I thought it had a little bit of an affectionate/flirty vibe - like something you would say to a guy you liked who was acting dumb, but who you were into anyway. She doesn't tear him a new one, which she could given that lame rant he went on