ICE Shooting in Minneapolis

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

Failure to obey commands?
This is not a police state. ICE doesn’t have unfettered authority to issue commands. ICE’s task is to enforce immigration laws. That’s it.

The correct place to argue that is in court, not during a tense confrontation with federal agents in the middle of a street.

And again, the point here is that it’s legally relevant to determining reasonableness.

Ok, when will we see charges and the start of the investigation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

And here's the other thing. ICE is not acting like a legitimate law enforcement agency. They are acting like gestapo. Period. And American people, the ones who studied history, are unwilling to just let this gestapo agency haul people off the way the Nazis did. Americans are laying down their lives, putting themselves in danger for others. ICE entered school property in Minneapolis and tear gassed students and teachers. Students and teachers!!! Grown men did this.

My husband and I, who are as anti gun as possible, talked last night about getting a gun. This doesn't end peacefully. Either congress is going to step up and get rid of this entire administration or Americans are going to end up at war with each other. I don't see any other way out of this. I don't want this to be the case, but since it appears we don't really have a functioning congress anymore, I think this ends in civil war.

Then you should beg your Democrat mayors, attorneys general, & governors to cooperate with ICE by handing over illegal aliens who end up in their courts & jails. This is all preventable, but Democrats WANT it to be messy & bloody.

Immigrants are getting arrested at court hearings to become legal. So, that makes no sense. They are going through the hoops -- and getting detained in deplorable conditions. So, this isn't about legality. It's about violence and terror and you know it. Trump was able to do it his first term with nary a peep from regular Dems who weren't in immigration circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

And here's the other thing. ICE is not acting like a legitimate law enforcement agency. They are acting like gestapo. Period. And American people, the ones who studied history, are unwilling to just let this gestapo agency haul people off the way the Nazis did. Americans are laying down their lives, putting themselves in danger for others. ICE entered school property in Minneapolis and tear gassed students and teachers. Students and teachers!!! Grown men did this.

My husband and I, who are as anti gun as possible, talked last night about getting a gun. This doesn't end peacefully. Either congress is going to step up and get rid of this entire administration or Americans are going to end up at war with each other. I don't see any other way out of this. I don't want this to be the case, but since it appears we don't really have a functioning congress anymore, I think this ends in civil war.

Then you should beg your Democrat mayors, attorneys general, & governors to cooperate with ICE by handing over illegal aliens who end up in their courts & jails. This is all preventable, but Democrats WANT it to be messy & bloody.

ICE are the ones with the guns, hun. Maybe they should stop pretending they are Rambo in Vietnam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

I'd rather be alive than try to prove a point with someone who's armed

Me, too. And I'd rather be on a street without any terrifying trigger-happy ICE agents.

Sure. But I'm not going to intentionally antagonize and disobey one.

Well, good. But if you do, let me just say it out loud: you do not deserve to be shot. Maybe glared at. Maybe given a citation. But not shot. And if someone shoots you for anyagonizing and disobeying, it will be murder and I will come out on DCUM to say it, regardless of who you voted for.

PP here. I voted for Harris and work in schools that are majority Hispanic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

Failure to obey commands?
This is not a police state. ICE doesn’t have unfettered authority to issue commands. ICE’s task is to enforce immigration laws. That’s it.

The correct place to argue that is in court, not during a tense confrontation with federal agents in the middle of a street.

And again, the point here is that it’s legally relevant to determining reasonableness.

It’s a free country. We have 1st amendment rights and Ross should have taken it like a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The car was turning right away from the agent. The agent was trying to block the vehicle from leaving. Shooting dead the driver does not help the agent. It made the steering wheel automatically rewind to the left and back to the direction of the agent.

The agent had already made up his mind to shoot the driver when she backed up his car.

Yes, there is no world in which this video exonerates him. She was turning the steering wheel right. The car was pulling out. We've all seen that action thousands of times in our lifetime. There is no point in that video where it makes any sense to start taking headshots.

I am a school teacher who does carpool / bus duty every morning and afternoon.

I’m in as much danger as officer Ross was. Should I carry a piece to shoot parents?

Exactly this. It's hard to believe that a hardened law enforcement official "feared for his life" in that video. Not even MAGA would believe he's that big of a snowflake. He wanted to shoot.

This video does make clear that the shooter was literally very easily triggered. He was angry because the speaker mocked him and called him “big boy”. That’s why he pulled his gun.

So.. her wife got her killed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

I'd rather be alive than try to prove a point with someone who's armed

Me, too. And I'd rather be on a street without any terrifying trigger-happy ICE agents.

Sure. But I'm not going to intentionally antagonize and disobey one.

Well, good. But if you do, let me just say it out loud: you do not deserve to be shot. Maybe glared at. Maybe given a citation. But not shot. And if someone shoots you for anyagonizing and disobeying, it will be murder and I will come out on DCUM to say it, regardless of who you voted for.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

Not correct. It’s part of the reasonableness assessment.

Those words were not threats of harm or injury. There were no visible weapons. And nothing that could put you in fear of your life. Just some bad attiude by a third party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

And here's the other thing. ICE is not acting like a legitimate law enforcement agency. They are acting like gestapo. Period. And American people, the ones who studied history, are unwilling to just let this gestapo agency haul people off the way the Nazis did. Americans are laying down their lives, putting themselves in danger for others. ICE entered school property in Minneapolis and tear gassed students and teachers. Students and teachers!!! Grown men did this.

My husband and I, who are as anti gun as possible, talked last night about getting a gun. This doesn't end peacefully. Either congress is going to step up and get rid of this entire administration or Americans are going to end up at war with each other. I don't see any other way out of this. I don't want this to be the case, but since it appears we don't really have a functioning congress anymore, I think this ends in civil war.

Then you should beg your Democrat mayors, attorneys general, & governors to cooperate with ICE by handing over illegal aliens who end up in their courts & jails. This is all preventable, but Democrats WANT it to be messy & bloody.

This sounds an awful lot like the argument you hear from an abusive spouse. Why did you make us so mad? If you’d just listen the first time it wouldn’t happen..,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

And here's the other thing. ICE is not acting like a legitimate law enforcement agency. They are acting like gestapo. Period. And American people, the ones who studied history, are unwilling to just let this gestapo agency haul people off the way the Nazis did. Americans are laying down their lives, putting themselves in danger for others. ICE entered school property in Minneapolis and tear gassed students and teachers. Students and teachers!!! Grown men did this.

My husband and I, who are as anti gun as possible, talked last night about getting a gun. This doesn't end peacefully. Either congress is going to step up and get rid of this entire administration or Americans are going to end up at war with each other. I don't see any other way out of this. I don't want this to be the case, but since it appears we don't really have a functioning congress anymore, I think this ends in civil war.

Then you should beg your Democrat mayors, attorneys general, & governors to cooperate with ICE by handing over illegal aliens who end up in their courts & jails. This is all preventable, but Democrats WANT it to be messy & bloody.

The vast majority of people ICE has deported this past year had zero criminal history. They were hurting no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

And here's the other thing. ICE is not acting like a legitimate law enforcement agency. They are acting like gestapo. Period. And American people, the ones who studied history, are unwilling to just let this gestapo agency haul people off the way the Nazis did. Americans are laying down their lives, putting themselves in danger for others. ICE entered school property in Minneapolis and tear gassed students and teachers. Students and teachers!!! Grown men did this.

My husband and I, who are as anti gun as possible, talked last night about getting a gun. This doesn't end peacefully. Either congress is going to step up and get rid of this entire administration or Americans are going to end up at war with each other. I don't see any other way out of this. I don't want this to be the case, but since it appears we don't really have a functioning congress anymore, I think this ends in civil war.

How is ICE not acting like a legitimate law enforcement agency? They are upholding the immigration laws Congress passed.

ICE is not hauling people off like the Nazis did. They are deporting illegal immigrants back to their home countries.

The American people voted for this, but some arrogant liberals believe their opinions matter more than other people’s - that you/they have the right to dictate public policy in this country and impede the enforcement of the laws that Congress passed.

Your post is filled with lies to make yourself seem like some sort of savior. You openly advocate for Congress deposing a lawfully elected administration, just because you don’t like its policies. I didn’t like Biden’s policies. Maybe Biden shouldn't have opened up the border to everyone in the world and ICE’s actions wouldn’t be necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

Failure to obey commands?
This is not a police state. ICE doesn’t have unfettered authority to issue commands. ICE’s task is to enforce immigration laws. That’s it.

The correct place to argue that is in court, not during a tense confrontation with federal agents in the middle of a street.

And again, the point here is that it’s legally relevant to determining reasonableness.

It’s a free country. We have 1st amendment rights and Ross should have taken it like a man.

Well he’s a “committed conservative Christian.” He couldn’t possibly have some queer woman threatening his masculinity, could he?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

And here's the other thing. ICE is not acting like a legitimate law enforcement agency. They are acting like gestapo. Period. And American people, the ones who studied history, are unwilling to just let this gestapo agency haul people off the way the Nazis did. Americans are laying down their lives, putting themselves in danger for others. ICE entered school property in Minneapolis and tear gassed students and teachers. Students and teachers!!! Grown men did this.

My husband and I, who are as anti gun as possible, talked last night about getting a gun. This doesn't end peacefully. Either congress is going to step up and get rid of this entire administration or Americans are going to end up at war with each other. I don't see any other way out of this. I don't want this to be the case, but since it appears we don't really have a functioning congress anymore, I think this ends in civil war.

Then you should beg your Democrat mayors, attorneys general, & governors to cooperate with ICE by handing over illegal aliens who end up in their courts & jails. This is all preventable, but Democrats WANT it to be messy & bloody.

So this was suicide by cop in an effort to become a martyr? That's your position?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ross's own cell phone video showed that he already had the vehicle's license plate number. At that point, the only thing the victim was doing that was illegal was a parking violation.

Even if you want to insist that she illegally knowingly intended to disrupt a federal ICE investigation of illegal immigration by blocking their cars, a) you have evidence on his own phone that she wasn't actually blocking traffic at that moment since cars were going around her and b) these particular ICE agents weren't even on an ICE mission (as per Noem).

Even if that were the charge - it's not an emergency situation where the ICE agents need to fear for their lives. Neither charge is a violent one. No urgent action needed to be taken, like dragging a woman out of her car. Ross already HAD the license plate number, video of the driver in the car as evidence.

Even if she were "fleeing the scene" - so what? A) It wasn't a violent crime (parking, obstructing and investigation). B) You have her - you have her plates, you know where she lives. C) They had zero reason to suspect she had something else she was hiding (like drugs, a dead body, whatever) in her car, as you might suspect at a traffic stop. If a cop pulls someone over for speeding, and while the cop is writing out the ticket, the person speeds off in their car? Sure - that's a reason to pursue. (Not to shoot them in the face. To pursue). But this was clearly a different situation, a different set of circumstances, as any experience law enforcement should understand.

Ross had the plate numbers, he got pissed at the wife's tone. He saw his buddies run up to the car and tell the victim to get out and saw that the victim was going to drive away. He then walked in FRONT of the car, knowing she was trying to get away. So he assumed his physical presence was going to stop her - something no law enforcement officer should ever assume - and if she failed to comply he was fully prepared to shoot her.

That's soldier mentality. Not civilian law enforcement mentality.

This is why we do not have soldiers policing our streets and enforcing routine traffic laws like parking violations and speeding tickets.

Well said. And it’s a good, albeit tragic, reminder of why we have Posse Comitatus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

JFC how thick can you be? Of course it doesn't give permission to kill someone. The officer made a mistake, one that he should receive some kind of reprimendation for. The point that some of us posters are making is that it was an understandable mistake given that,six months earlier he was hospitalized for being dragged by another driver, dealing with someone who was intentionally blocking him in (extremely hostile and agressive behavior) and being antagonized and belittled by the wife (who seemed to be part of the incident) and likely the victim herself. When the victim left she did so recklessly, coming within inches of hitting him (I don't think she was intentionally trying to hit him, but I think she was taking off in a huff)

All of these circumstances together led him to make a split second decision to shoot. The wrong decision, a decision that will at a minimum cost him his job, but given the situation not hard to see how such a mistake happened. These people are in a job where emotions are high, safety is always a concern, and if they make a mistake it could lead to tragedy. It's certainly not a job I could do, because honestly I don't know if I would have been able to keep from backhanding that b**** wife for talking to me like that. But I know that I am not cut out for such a job and sympathize greatly with officers who have to deal with a$$holes who deliberately try to heckle and insult them.

NP. No, PP. It is not a "mistake." It is murder. If he can't keep from reacting like that, then he never should have been allowed to do this job. Not only was he allowed, he was probably encouraged. Kristi Noem should be indicted for murder, too.

And you are right that you should absolutely not be allowed to be a LEO. I sincerely hope you do not own a gun.

It’s not murder because it's understandable that within that split second of almost being hit he would have thought that it was doing so intentionally
Keep in mind this is a woman who shortly before was using her car to block the officers in. An incredibly brazen and hostile act. Not something “normal” protestors do.