APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Page 160 of this thread is filled with 6 anti-Nottingham replies within a 5 minute period. This is clearly one Nottingham-hating parent with nothing better to do on a Sunday afternoon.

As one of the commenters pushing against the narrowminded Nottingham perspective, I can assure you there is more than one of us.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enjoying these comments from Nottingham parents suddenly concerned with equity when in the past other schools problems didn't bother them at all and in fact they have been more than enthusiastic to burn other schools down if it would solve their own problems. Suddenly though they want a kumbaya moment and everyone to hold hands!

Na, I'm good.

You’re proving our point. Let’s all burn each other to the ground over some perceived sleight from six years ago by a group of parents that has long since left. Cool.

The Nottingham parents have entirely the same entitled, oblivious, and burn-down-their-neighbors-schools-if-it-could-help-them Weltanschauung as their forbears. Have you read any of this thread? Asking for neighbors to support one another only when it benefits them is Nottingham's tell. Note that this swing space plan actually does benefit other neighbors in Arlington who need school renovations that would run longer than 3 months -- but that sacrifice is too much for Nottingham.

Come on, Nottingham -- why won't YOU support others in the community who need swing space that your school is perfect for, because it is underenrolled, and surrounding schools could take your kids without that much difficulty -- and meanwhile APS would not need to spend exorbitant amounts of money to retrofit some other building into a school? Why can't you just be a good citizen? Why is that so hard?

Being a good citizen is second guessing a planning department that can’t seem to plan and wastes money like there is no tomorrow. Comments like yours make me think they are coming from people who expect to get that full $50m gut job. News flash- you’re probably not, at least not anytime soon.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

3 years is too fast for you?
And as has repeatedly been pointed out, they will do the studies IF they decide to move forward and implement for the start of school two years from now. If they did detailed studies of every potential site before making decisions, people would be complaining it's taking them so long to make a proposal and a decision and they're wasting time and taxpayer money on a bunch of studies that aren't even going to matter. Also, any study they do today will need to be (and would) be re-done when it's time to implement the plan because a study done today will be outdated by then.

There is not one single location - not one - that will not have traffic implications or that does not already have traffic concerns. Not one. Traffic is not going to be the factor that stops NES becoming swing space.

This is where you are wrong. Some locations may have unique factors that then don’t make sense as a 100 percent driveable location. The time to study is before the location is chosen because otherwise you’ve now pigeonholed the site, even if it makes no sense after studies are conducted.

Right. Kenmore didn't become a high school because of, wait for it.... traffic!

Well, sort of. The real reason is APS and Arlington County refuse to try to work with Ffx Co to be able to do what they say they need to do to increase access to the site. Traffic is cited as the reason but it's just a cover for "it's too hard." anytime something requires the cooperation of the County or another entity, APS says it can't be done because they don't have the authority.

Exactly this. APS doesn’t want to have to work with the county. Ever. Over anything.

Well, TBF, it’s really the other way around. Libby Garvey thinks we don’t even need schools since we have iPads.

Also, there’s no way Fairfax county will work with Arlington—they are still mad about the streetcar cancellation which Fairfax was counting on to revitalize Bailey’s Crossroads. People who’ve been involved in local politics for a while know this.

[Anonymous]

Send the Notties to Drew

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No one want to join Nottingham. Even in N Arlington. You’ve alienated just about everyone with your prior and current style Of “advocacy.”

In that case, you should want us to stay at our own school. Because otherwise we’ll be coming to your’s! Help us advocate to keep Nottingham open so that our abhorrent values and alienating nature don’t infiltrate the whole of North Arlington.

Oh, that's clearly never going to happen! You'd sooner move to Montana than come to my kids' schools south of 50. Of course, the rest of your comment indicates you don't consider south Arlington part of the picture anyway. But you'd probably do better to solicit south Arlington support, if south Arlington schools end up being the ones destined for the swing space. They're your best bet arguing about the inconvenient and unfeasible location.

So we are on the same page!

NP. I'm in SA and our school desperately needs a reno, and I think the proposal is the best and most cost-efficient way to improve our school and the others that need it. I fully support this plan and would have no problem moving locations for one year, even if it's not that convenient. It would be better than staying in our building through construction, noise, and dust.

What if, as an alternative, you could go to Fairlington? Do you wonder if APS seriously considered that as an option? Or what if you could go to a state of the art classroom at Amazon? Aren’t you curious whether APS placed a call to them to ask? Or maybe Syphax would be closer and more convenient? Does it make you wonder whether it’s anything other than APS’s office-work policy that shut down that option?

It’s not Nottingham or nothing, and you ought to press your elected leaders to get a little more creative in their thinking. You say it’s the best choice but you history have no idea… APS doesn’t either. And that’s the point. They were so laser focused on closing a north Arlington school that they literally didn’t try to find any other solution.

Yes, because sacrificing a well-utilized community center in SA so NA can keep their under-enrolled school makes a TON of sense.

And I know you hate Zumba, but Fairlington CC also houses a preschool and tons of classes that are used by residents of all ages.

Give it a rest.

And Amazon? You probably hate them too, right? Our kids don’t need technology! Let’s drive them to a 20-year old elementary school 30 mins away instead! That makes more sense!

And Syphax is good for our administrators but not our kids. Ewww.

Do you work for APS? Your thinking is about as deep as theirs appears to be.

We can do so much better than this.

The thing about NES: It’s already set up as an elementary school, which saves tons of money.

Fairlington and Amazon are asinine suggestions. I have no idea about Syphax, but we all know that’s a non-starter anyway.

I’m sorry. There’s still time for you to move though.

“I have no idea but that’s a non-starter.”

Yep, that’s what APS says, too.

“I don’t understand this, but that’s ok, I don’t want to think too hard.”

Its a non-starter because APS won’t hear of it. You and I both know that.

And that’s the real problem. Not Nottie mommies. APS. They suck. And we suck for letting them get away with it.

It’s Nottingham this time. And Hamm. And the 90% of Arlington families that hate the new calendar but APD is doing it anyway. It’ll be another school and another issue next time. They’ll keep doing this because we keep letting them do it.

What if we actually expected our elected Board Members to push back? To make APS be better? Maybe our school district wouldn’t be such a mess. Maybe we could think long-term for once, and stop throwing good money after short-term problems of our own making.

If only.

PP in SA here - I actually think the proposal is good long-term thinking that is the least likely to waste money.

NA is going to need that capacity back by 2028. And SA will still need more capacity in 2028. It’s not long term thinking at all.

But maybe my SA school can be renovated by 2028 and enlarged to increase capacity. Then Nottingham will re-open and our school (or someone else's school, or maybe even 2-3 schools by then) will be able to hold more capacity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No one want to join Nottingham. Even in N Arlington. You’ve alienated just about everyone with your prior and current style Of “advocacy.”

In that case, you should want us to stay at our own school. Because otherwise we’ll be coming to your’s! Help us advocate to keep Nottingham open so that our abhorrent values and alienating nature don’t infiltrate the whole of North Arlington.

Oh, that's clearly never going to happen! You'd sooner move to Montana than come to my kids' schools south of 50. Of course, the rest of your comment indicates you don't consider south Arlington part of the picture anyway. But you'd probably do better to solicit south Arlington support, if south Arlington schools end up being the ones destined for the swing space. They're your best bet arguing about the inconvenient and unfeasible location.

So we are on the same page!

NP. I'm in SA and our school desperately needs a reno, and I think the proposal is the best and most cost-efficient way to improve our school and the others that need it. I fully support this plan and would have no problem moving locations for one year, even if it's not that convenient. It would be better than staying in our building through construction, noise, and dust.

What if, as an alternative, you could go to Fairlington? Do you wonder if APS seriously considered that as an option? Or what if you could go to a state of the art classroom at Amazon? Aren’t you curious whether APS placed a call to them to ask? Or maybe Syphax would be closer and more convenient? Does it make you wonder whether it’s anything other than APS’s office-work policy that shut down that option?

It’s not Nottingham or nothing, and you ought to press your elected leaders to get a little more creative in their thinking. You say it’s the best choice but you history have no idea… APS doesn’t either. And that’s the point. They were so laser focused on closing a north Arlington school that they literally didn’t try to find any other solution.

For the umpteenth time, Fairlington is not available to APS until the County makes it available and they are not interested in doing so.
They chose a NA school because of its enrollment amid multiple neighboring NA schools also with below-capacity enrollments.
It is far FASTER and CHEAPER to re-use an existing operating elementary school as an elementary school than to renovate a community center (that isn't even in APS' authority to use) or to find another location for central admin and the SB and convert that LEASED space into swing space that can accommodate preschool and elementary school.

I think their idea is fine. I don't believe it's actually going to happen because APS won't have its crap together to proceed with school renovations by the time the NES proposal is to take effect. By the time they're actually ready to begin using swing space, there probably won't be enough capacity in NW to do what they're currently proposing to do. On that point, it might end up being just as feasible from a timeframe standpoint to find some empty office buildings and do some other major renovations to create a swing space. But it will cost a LOT more. A LOT. Then the complaints will be that APS is wasting too much money creating a temporary space. And those complaints would probably be justified.

How do you know the County won’t help? How do you know APS has even asked? Spoiler alert: they haven’t.

Well then someone should ask them. Have YOU?

In fact, I have. Thanks for playing.

Great, who did you ask, when, and what was the response?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

I recall a vocal contingent in SA who opposed using the CC site as a neighborhood high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

Where did I admit I didn't support the Heights? I only said many people questioned and pushed back on the design. That's not the same as opposing the project.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

I recall a vocal contingent in SA who opposed using the CC site as a neighborhood high school.

As a comprehensive neighborhood high school if it didn't have a pool. And that was a minority voice. Ultimately, the whole thing was paused due to cost - not to division over a pool. Then they revised the plan and it's even more inefficient financially.

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Anonymous wrote:No one want to join Nottingham. Even in N Arlington. You’ve alienated just about everyone with your prior and current style Of “advocacy.”

In that case, you should want us to stay at our own school. Because otherwise we’ll be coming to your’s! Help us advocate to keep Nottingham open so that our abhorrent values and alienating nature don’t infiltrate the whole of North Arlington.

Oh, that's clearly never going to happen! You'd sooner move to Montana than come to my kids' schools south of 50. Of course, the rest of your comment indicates you don't consider south Arlington part of the picture anyway. But you'd probably do better to solicit south Arlington support, if south Arlington schools end up being the ones destined for the swing space. They're your best bet arguing about the inconvenient and unfeasible location.

So we are on the same page!

NP. I'm in SA and our school desperately needs a reno, and I think the proposal is the best and most cost-efficient way to improve our school and the others that need it. I fully support this plan and would have no problem moving locations for one year, even if it's not that convenient. It would be better than staying in our building through construction, noise, and dust.

What if, as an alternative, you could go to Fairlington? Do you wonder if APS seriously considered that as an option? Or what if you could go to a state of the art classroom at Amazon? Aren’t you curious whether APS placed a call to them to ask? Or maybe Syphax would be closer and more convenient? Does it make you wonder whether it’s anything other than APS’s office-work policy that shut down that option?

It’s not Nottingham or nothing, and you ought to press your elected leaders to get a little more creative in their thinking. You say it’s the best choice but you history have no idea… APS doesn’t either. And that’s the point. They were so laser focused on closing a north Arlington school that they literally didn’t try to find any other solution.

Yes, because sacrificing a well-utilized community center in SA so NA can keep their under-enrolled school makes a TON of sense.

And I know you hate Zumba, but Fairlington CC also houses a preschool and tons of classes that are used by residents of all ages.

Give it a rest.

And Amazon? You probably hate them too, right? Our kids don’t need technology! Let’s drive them to a 20-year old elementary school 30 mins away instead! That makes more sense!

And Syphax is good for our administrators but not our kids. Ewww.

Do you work for APS? Your thinking is about as deep as theirs appears to be.

We can do so much better than this.

The thing about NES: It’s already set up as an elementary school, which saves tons of money.

Fairlington and Amazon are asinine suggestions. I have no idea about Syphax, but we all know that’s a non-starter anyway.

I’m sorry. There’s still time for you to move though.

“I have no idea but that’s a non-starter.”

Yep, that’s what APS says, too.

“I don’t understand this, but that’s ok, I don’t want to think too hard.”

Its a non-starter because APS won’t hear of it. You and I both know that.

And that’s the real problem. Not Nottie mommies. APS. They suck. And we suck for letting them get away with it.

It’s Nottingham this time. And Hamm. And the 90% of Arlington families that hate the new calendar but APD is doing it anyway. It’ll be another school and another issue next time. They’ll keep doing this because we keep letting them do it.

What if we actually expected our elected Board Members to push back? To make APS be better? Maybe our school district wouldn’t be such a mess. Maybe we could think long-term for once, and stop throwing good money after short-term problems of our own making.

If only.

PP in SA here - I actually think the proposal is good long-term thinking that is the least likely to waste money.

NA is going to need that capacity back by 2028. And SA will still need more capacity in 2028. It’s not long term thinking at all.

But maybe my SA school can be renovated by 2028 and enlarged to increase capacity. Then Nottingham will re-open and our school (or someone else's school, or maybe even 2-3 schools by then) will be able to hold more capacity.

APS says 1 school every two years, max, and they’re basically admitting that they won’t start in 2026. So… not likely for you, PP.

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Anonymous wrote:Here’s APS’s dirty little secret—THEY DON’T ACTUALLY NEED A SWING SPACE IN 2026! Write them. Ask them. Nobody thinks that’s going to happen. They won’t possibly get their shit together by then. Even when they get their bond, they’re not going to throw $40 million into one school. They’re going to take it and spread it around to maybe 5 schools, none of which will have to move to swing space. So Nottingham will just sit empty in the meantime. All so the anti-Nottie community can sleep at night and not have to ask their politicians practical questions. What a waste.

This isn’t about swing space. This is about APS wanting to try and reverse the bad decisions they made 5 years ago when they built Discovery and Cardinal on top of each other, and on top of Nottingham. Now they’ve got too much capacity in NA, and that’s not a good look for them. So they close Nottingham, and move all other NA schools to 100%. That’s what success looks like for them.

They’re just trying to save face, not create a swing space. And you idiots who just go along with it are making it so easy for them.

This is utter nonsense.

I agree this all isn't going to happen in 2026 because APS Facilities can't get its act together and in sync with the CIP and bonding cycles.
However, IF and when a proposal like this does go through, APS can direct that $40 million to a renovation that can benefit from swing space instead of the multiple lesser projects because they will have to take advantage of the swing space while it's available. They can't just sit on it indefinitely and hope it's still not needed as a regular elementary school when they finally get around to needing the swing space.

Why not? Their track record isn’t great.

But their intention is not just to close a beloved NA school. And it isn't about making a mistake building Discovery. The mistake was building Discovery where they built it.

I honestly don't think it was a mistake. APS has learned it must build, grow and keep schools where it can - they have learned the very hard lesson of giving away schools to County in 1990s to never get them back. The County made wry clear with the Buck property, VHC on Carlin Springs and Fairlington's new programming that it will not give new sites to schools. What have they talked about in Pentagon City...Virginia Highlands park?, yea, right. That's like the president threatening to close the Washington Monument knowing Congress will never let that happen. Now the County even wants to restrict the school budget. I think North Arl sees major incompetence and nefariousness in short-term NA "overcapacity" when in reality it is a necessary byproduct of a long term effort to counter the bigger issue of County no longer cooperating with APS. The County world is full of people who are post-APS in their life and they want the money and buildings for their own use as seniors.