APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

SA here. I strongly argued against Cardinal - that was supposed to be a SA ES getting built. I became disgruntled as soon as I learned of the slide in Discovery while knowing what shape Henry and Drew were in wth my own eyes. But arguing against those at the time was ... wait for it... arguing against those NA neighborhoods and what they say they needed, wanted, deserved. PP does not have much credibility trying to claim SA did not do enough to fight NA's own excess. Like a criminal telling the police to stop him before he robs again.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

3 years is too fast for you?
And as has repeatedly been pointed out, they will do the studies IF they decide to move forward and implement for the start of school two years from now. If they did detailed studies of every potential site before making decisions, people would be complaining it's taking them so long to make a proposal and a decision and they're wasting time and taxpayer money on a bunch of studies that aren't even going to matter. Also, any study they do today will need to be (and would) be re-done when it's time to implement the plan because a study done today will be outdated by then.

There is not one single location - not one - that will not have traffic implications or that does not already have traffic concerns. Not one. Traffic is not going to be the factor that stops NES becoming swing space.

This is where you are wrong. Some locations may have unique factors that then don’t make sense as a 100 percent driveable location. The time to study is before the location is chosen because otherwise you’ve now pigeonholed the site, even if it makes no sense after studies are conducted.

Right. Kenmore didn't become a high school because of, wait for it.... traffic!

Well, sort of. The real reason is APS and Arlington County refuse to try to work with Ffx Co to be able to do what they say they need to do to increase access to the site. Traffic is cited as the reason but it's just a cover for "it's too hard." anytime something requires the cooperation of the County or another entity, APS says it can't be done because they don't have the authority.

Exactly this. APS doesn’t want to have to work with the county. Ever. Over anything.

Well, TBF, it’s really the other way around. Libby Garvey thinks we don’t even need schools since we have iPads.

Also, there’s no way Fairfax county will work with Arlington—they are still mad about the streetcar cancellation which Fairfax was counting on to revitalize Bailey’s Crossroads. People who’ve been involved in local politics for a while know this.

DP. This is right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

3 years is too fast for you?
And as has repeatedly been pointed out, they will do the studies IF they decide to move forward and implement for the start of school two years from now. If they did detailed studies of every potential site before making decisions, people would be complaining it's taking them so long to make a proposal and a decision and they're wasting time and taxpayer money on a bunch of studies that aren't even going to matter. Also, any study they do today will need to be (and would) be re-done when it's time to implement the plan because a study done today will be outdated by then.

There is not one single location - not one - that will not have traffic implications or that does not already have traffic concerns. Not one. Traffic is not going to be the factor that stops NES becoming swing space.

This is where you are wrong. Some locations may have unique factors that then don’t make sense as a 100 percent driveable location. The time to study is before the location is chosen because otherwise you’ve now pigeonholed the site, even if it makes no sense after studies are conducted.

Right. Kenmore didn't become a high school because of, wait for it.... traffic!

Well, sort of. The real reason is APS and Arlington County refuse to try to work with Ffx Co to be able to do what they say they need to do to increase access to the site. Traffic is cited as the reason but it's just a cover for "it's too hard." anytime something requires the cooperation of the County or another entity, APS says it can't be done because they don't have the authority.

Yes and same problem with Nottingham. APS can't fix Little Falls, the County would need to.

Seems like we should know whether the County would do anything BEFORE deciding to put hundreds more cars and buses around the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

Where did I admit I didn't support the Heights? I only said many people questioned and pushed back on the design. That's not the same as opposing the project.

questioned and pushed back does not mean you did not support? ok.........

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

I recall a vocal contingent in SA who opposed using the CC site as a neighborhood high school.

As a comprehensive neighborhood high school if it didn't have a pool. And that was a minority voice. Ultimately, the whole thing was paused due to cost - not to division over a pool. Then they revised the plan and it's even more inefficient financially.

Fine but my point was in response to a poster who claimed NA opposed the CC development, and I was pointing out that I recall a very vocal and active contingent from SA who opposed it. You all may have had your reasons, just don't try to rewrite history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

3 years is too fast for you?
And as has repeatedly been pointed out, they will do the studies IF they decide to move forward and implement for the start of school two years from now. If they did detailed studies of every potential site before making decisions, people would be complaining it's taking them so long to make a proposal and a decision and they're wasting time and taxpayer money on a bunch of studies that aren't even going to matter. Also, any study they do today will need to be (and would) be re-done when it's time to implement the plan because a study done today will be outdated by then.

There is not one single location - not one - that will not have traffic implications or that does not already have traffic concerns. Not one. Traffic is not going to be the factor that stops NES becoming swing space.

This is where you are wrong. Some locations may have unique factors that then don’t make sense as a 100 percent driveable location. The time to study is before the location is chosen because otherwise you’ve now pigeonholed the site, even if it makes no sense after studies are conducted.

Right. Kenmore didn't become a high school because of, wait for it.... traffic!

Well, sort of. The real reason is APS and Arlington County refuse to try to work with Ffx Co to be able to do what they say they need to do to increase access to the site. Traffic is cited as the reason but it's just a cover for "it's too hard." anytime something requires the cooperation of the County or another entity, APS says it can't be done because they don't have the authority.

Yes and same problem with Nottingham. APS can't fix Little Falls, the County would need to.

Seems like we should know whether the County would do anything BEFORE deciding to put hundreds more cars and buses around the school.

Nice try. Your are consistent and once again prove unable to home in on the key points. The COUNTY doesn't have the authority to create the additional access at Kenmore without FAIRFAX CO's cooperation. APS never has authority to fix roads in the first place. But in this instance, per APS/County, it can't be done at Kenmore without another jurisidiction's involvement.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

Where did I admit I didn't support the Heights? I only said many people questioned and pushed back on the design. That's not the same as opposing the project.

questioned and pushed back does not mean you did not support? ok.........

on. the. DESIGN. "design" does not = "project."
And there was no big organized formal effort from SA to oppose it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

I recall a vocal contingent in SA who opposed using the CC site as a neighborhood high school.

As a comprehensive neighborhood high school if it didn't have a pool. And that was a minority voice. Ultimately, the whole thing was paused due to cost - not to division over a pool. Then they revised the plan and it's even more inefficient financially.

Fine but my point was in response to a poster who claimed NA opposed the CC development, and I was pointing out that I recall a very vocal and active contingent from SA who opposed it. You all may have had your reasons, just don't try to rewrite history.

I hope you don't work in a job in which attention and understanding of details is important.

Poster didn't say NA opposed CC development: a certain neighborhood in NA didn't want a comprehensive neighborhood high school there because there was a good chance they'd be moved from WL to a high school at the CC site. That same neighborhood was not pushing back on the entire idea of redeveloping the site.

Furthermore, a contingent within SA opposed a comprehensive high school without a pool. They otherwise fully supported redevelopment of the site, including an option high school - just not a neighborhood school without a pool. And others supported a neighborhood high school there even without a pool on site.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

I recall a vocal contingent in SA who opposed using the CC site as a neighborhood high school.

As a comprehensive neighborhood high school if it didn't have a pool. And that was a minority voice. Ultimately, the whole thing was paused due to cost - not to division over a pool. Then they revised the plan and it's even more inefficient financially.

Fine but my point was in response to a poster who claimed NA opposed the CC development, and I was pointing out that I recall a very vocal and active contingent from SA who opposed it. You all may have had your reasons, just don't try to rewrite history.

I hope you don't work in a job in which attention and understanding of details is important.

Poster didn't say NA opposed CC development: a certain neighborhood in NA didn't want a comprehensive neighborhood high school there because there was a good chance they'd be moved from WL to a high school at the CC site. That same neighborhood was not pushing back on the entire idea of redeveloping the site.

Furthermore, a contingent within SA opposed a comprehensive high school without a pool. They otherwise fully supported redevelopment of the site, including an option high school - just not a neighborhood school without a pool. And others supported a neighborhood high school there even without a pool on site.

Actually yes, they did. This was the exact quote, perhaps you missed it:

"And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

3 years is too fast for you?
And as has repeatedly been pointed out, they will do the studies IF they decide to move forward and implement for the start of school two years from now. If they did detailed studies of every potential site before making decisions, people would be complaining it's taking them so long to make a proposal and a decision and they're wasting time and taxpayer money on a bunch of studies that aren't even going to matter. Also, any study they do today will need to be (and would) be re-done when it's time to implement the plan because a study done today will be outdated by then.

There is not one single location - not one - that will not have traffic implications or that does not already have traffic concerns. Not one. Traffic is not going to be the factor that stops NES becoming swing space.

This is where you are wrong. Some locations may have unique factors that then don’t make sense as a 100 percent driveable location. The time to study is before the location is chosen because otherwise you’ve now pigeonholed the site, even if it makes no sense after studies are conducted.

Right. Kenmore didn't become a high school because of, wait for it.... traffic!

Well, sort of. The real reason is APS and Arlington County refuse to try to work with Ffx Co to be able to do what they say they need to do to increase access to the site. Traffic is cited as the reason but it's just a cover for "it's too hard." anytime something requires the cooperation of the County or another entity, APS says it can't be done because they don't have the authority.

Yes and same problem with Nottingham. APS can't fix Little Falls, the County would need to.

Seems like we should know whether the County would do anything BEFORE deciding to put hundreds more cars and buses around the school.

Nice try. Your are consistent and once again prove unable to home in on the key points. The COUNTY doesn't have the authority to create the additional access at Kenmore without FAIRFAX CO's cooperation. APS never has authority to fix roads in the first place. But in this instance, per APS/County, it can't be done at Kenmore without another jurisidiction's involvement.

Will the County fix Little Falls? The road narrows dangerously in front of Nottingham. So far, the answer has been a big no. Whether can't or won't doesn't make a difference - the question is WILL they?

If the answer continues to be no, then the school should absolutely not be used as a swing space.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

Where did I admit I didn't support the Heights? I only said many people questioned and pushed back on the design. That's not the same as opposing the project.

questioned and pushed back does not mean you did not support? ok.........

on. the. DESIGN. "design" does not = "project."
And there was no big organized formal effort from SA to oppose it.

if you dispute that "pushed back" = "opposed," then we will have to leave it there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To update, They have put in 4 way stops in those places where people were tragically hit, though if they were there in the 1st place, it wouldn’t have happened

Nottingham doesn’t want to talk about the two different 4-way stops that have been added within 2 blocks in either direction of the school. Not consistent with their narrative that MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham doesn’t keep its ridiculously underenrolled school jus the way it is now.

Ok great! Now the neighborhood is safer based on CURRENT TRAFFIC PATTERNS. A swing space upends every thing we know already about traffic in the area. It is a huge fundamental change to neighborhood traffic going from a school that is overwhelmingly walkable to 100 pct driving.

I’m sorry you can’t understand that.

You do realize you're then making the case that NO pLACE can be swing space, right? You Notties certainly can't go advocating for somewhere else to take the fall. In fact, you're saying the whole idea is just too dangerous. So, no accelerated renos anywhere, right?

No, it’s a lack of a traffic study to see if/what can be done to make the streets safer. Some streets and neighborhoods are inherently safer than others based on factors outside of the control of APS. Width? Sidewalks? Stop signs? Hills?

On that basis, I think your neighborhood around NES is far more suitable than most others - esp in central/south arlington - since you have far more space and far less traffic and far less density of people.

Agreed. I think some of these NES parents have never witnessed the buzz of cars, buses, and general humanity at an elementary school drop off/pickup south of 50.

Thank you for making our point for us! We don’t want that nor can Nottingham accommodate that.

But what’s the issue with APS taking a breath and actually studying the issue? The whole argument is APS is moving too fast without supporting data and study. Making decisions like this is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Honey, you’re missing the point. The “buzz of cars, busses, and general humanity” is an acceptable state of being during school drop off/pick up.

You don’t want that? Doesn’t matter. Move to the country or go private.

And if we lose a few kids or other pedestrians in the meantime, no problem! Cost of doing business!

Please stop this. People all over the county are concerned about the safety of their kids.

Exactly, that’s the point. This isn’t NA v SA. We all want our kids to be safe. That’s why we all should want a traffic study.

PP wants NA to feel the pain the way they say SA does. What if we just demanded that it be better and safer for all of us, rather than demonizing each other?

Nice thought. So were you out demanding and advocating on behalf of other schools, especially SA schools all these years. Or just now that NES is the victim?

Where was SA back when NA schools were ridiculously overcrowded? I don't recall help from SA at all.

It goes both ways.

I believe we did nothing to stand in the way of building Discovery. Or Cardinal. Or Hamm. Though many of us, like many across the County, objected to the costs and over-the-top design of The Heights and similar things.

And where was NA in regards to the Career Center site redevelopment? From what I can tell: absent, objecting to the entire project due to cost, and/or making sure it doesn't involve a new neighborhood high school there because neighborhoods north of 50 don't want to be moved away from WL.

So not stopping something is now your version of supporting it? That's rich. But even you admit you opposed the Heights and whatever you mean by "similar things."

For the record, I live in NA and I supported the CC redevelopment.

Where did I admit I didn't support the Heights? I only said many people questioned and pushed back on the design. That's not the same as opposing the project.

questioned and pushed back does not mean you did not support? ok.........

on. the. DESIGN. "design" does not = "project."
And there was no big organized formal effort from SA to oppose it.

if you dispute that "pushed back" = "opposed," then we will have to leave it there

If you insist on leaving out "on the design," then sure.

[Anonymous]

Nottingham trying to make this a Discovery problem in the other thread. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

What is the slide at Discovery and what was the controversy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham trying to make this a Discovery problem in the other thread. Good luck.

Discovery parents aint gonna be happy when they are forced out of their palace to make room for the notties.