what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How about 2 reversible toll lanes? How about at least attempting to discuss what is supposed to happen at Exit 9 when the toll lanes stop? Could we consider HOV 2 so current carpoolers are encouraged to keep carpooling? It is not this plan or nothing.

These are your ideas. These are not serious alternatives under consideration. The people blocking the HOT lanes have nothing to provide to solve the problem except to say “we need more transit” which is not useful.

Because the Hogan administration has refused to propose them.

It's as though my family said, "Let's have lasagna for dinner," and I said, "No, we're having chicken and dumplings for dinner," and I went to the store and bought only the ingredients for chicken and dumplings, and I came home, and my family said, "Let's have lasagna for dinner," and I said, "No, lasagna for dinner is not a serious alternative, the only serious alternative for dinner is chicken and dumplings."

RIght...remember when there were like 15 alternatives and then suddenly they were all excluded except the HOT PPP alternatives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's clear none of these people need to drive any significant distance to work. FWIW, I take metro, but DH has to drive (we live in MD, he works in NoVA) and the traffic is insane. IIRC the expansion of 495 really only went to the 270 interchange anyway, right?

Yes, that's a horrible drive. The question is, is the best solution for the state of Maryland to sign a secret contract with a for-profit company to widen the highway with toll lanes?

What’s your solution?

My solution is more and better public transportation options, better and safer walking/biking connections to public transportation, more remote work, more off-peak work hours, more incentives for people to use public transportation instead of driving by themselves, and (last but not least) adding housing close to existing transit, services, and jobs.

Explain how your “more and better public transportation” that is going to get this person from upper MoCo to NoVA?

There is no current plan for this anywhere. Nor is there funding. The HOT lanes would’ve been ready in 3 years. Your plan, which is actually just an idea because there is no current plan, wouldn’t see fruition in decades. What should this person do until then, move out of the county?

Continue with their current commute, work out a telework plan, work out an off-peak commuting plan, look for a different job, look for a different place to live.

It's ridiculous to say that we have to go with Larry Hogan's plan on grounds that he has refused to propose any other plan. It's also ridiculous to say that it would take decades to start running more buses (for example).

You do realize there are a ton of workers that can't telework, right? Do you really want all these lauded "essential workers", those who work in national security, etc. to just up and leave their jobs do to a crap commute? While the # of people teleworking is probably not as high as early in the pandemic, it's pretty high compared to normal. And there's still a lot of traffic on 495 and 270.

I don't think the proposal is perfect, but there are no other proposals on the table to lessen the gridlock. The VA hot lanes are essentially wasted right now since they end at the bridge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don’t have a credible alternative to Hogan’s plan. So it’s either his plan or no plan. I will go with the person that actually has a plan over the people without a plan thank you very much.

Really? I propose scrapping the bad plan and working to come up with a different, better plan, over going with the bad plan on the basis that the only current plan is the bad plan.

You say his plan is bad but there have never been any alternative plans. The current alternative plan is the second bridge which is currently under study, but also opposed by the county. The county is opposed to anything infrastructure, despite decades of promises (see M83). The state want to protect BWI. The combination of the two is a diminished economy that will impoverish this county. Protectionism never results I’m good outcomes nor does Luddite NIMBYism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It’s all Hogan, Hogan, Hogan with you. Sounds like you are taking county residents hostage because you have a problem with the political affiliation of the governor.

My problem is with the projects/policies the governor is proposing and refusing to propose, not with his political affiliation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How about 2 reversible toll lanes? How about at least attempting to discuss what is supposed to happen at Exit 9 when the toll lanes stop? Could we consider HOV 2 so current carpoolers are encouraged to keep carpooling? It is not this plan or nothing.

These are your ideas. These are not serious alternatives under consideration. The people blocking the HOT lanes have nothing to provide to solve the problem except to say “we need more transit” which is not useful.

Because the Hogan administration has refused to propose them.

It's as though my family said, "Let's have lasagna for dinner," and I said, "No, we're having chicken and dumplings for dinner," and I went to the store and bought only the ingredients for chicken and dumplings, and I came home, and my family said, "Let's have lasagna for dinner," and I said, "No, lasagna for dinner is not a serious alternative, the only serious alternative for dinner is chicken and dumplings."

RIght...remember when there were like 15 alternatives and then suddenly they were all excluded except the HOT PPP alternatives?


Not a Hogan fan but a lot of this can be blamed on prior administrations and planners - across the DMV- who had zero foresight. Everyone waits until it's full crisis mode to do anything, and then homeowners put up roadblocks regardless (see: Herndon, Chevy Chase).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's clear none of these people need to drive any significant distance to work. FWIW, I take metro, but DH has to drive (we live in MD, he works in NoVA) and the traffic is insane. IIRC the expansion of 495 really only went to the 270 interchange anyway, right?

Yes, that's a horrible drive. The question is, is the best solution for the state of Maryland to sign a secret contract with a for-profit company to widen the highway with toll lanes?

What’s your solution?

My solution is more and better public transportation options, better and safer walking/biking connections to public transportation, more remote work, more off-peak work hours, more incentives for people to use public transportation instead of driving by themselves, and (last but not least) adding housing close to existing transit, services, and jobs.

Explain how your “more and better public transportation” that is going to get this person from upper MoCo to NoVA?

There is no current plan for this anywhere. Nor is there funding. The HOT lanes would’ve been ready in 3 years. Your plan, which is actually just an idea because there is no current plan, wouldn’t see fruition in decades. What should this person do until then, move out of the county?

Continue with their current commute, work out a telework plan, work out an off-peak commuting plan, look for a different job, look for a different place to live.

It's ridiculous to say that we have to go with Larry Hogan's plan on grounds that he has refused to propose any other plan. It's also ridiculous to say that it would take decades to start running more buses (for example).

You do realize there are a ton of workers that can't telework, right? Do you really want all these lauded "essential workers", those who work in national security, etc. to just up and leave their jobs do to a crap commute? While the # of people teleworking is probably not as high as early in the pandemic, it's pretty high compared to normal. And there's still a lot of traffic on 495 and 270.

I don't think the proposal is perfect, but there are no other proposals on the table to lessen the gridlock. The VA hot lanes are essentially wasted right now since they end at the bridge.

I’m the meantime VA is producing large numbers of relatively affordable SFHs in Loudon and Stafford that will probably look a lot more enticing to someone who doesn’t want to quit their job to stay living here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s all Hogan, Hogan, Hogan with you. Sounds like you are taking county residents hostage because you have a problem with the political affiliation of the governor.

My problem is with the projects/policies the governor is proposing and refusing to propose, not with his political affiliation.

Too bad the governor prior to him didn't address it.

[Anonymous]

If you think living in Stafford our Loudon and commuting to the Pentagon or much of the NSA infrastructure is that much better than living in MoCo and commuting there, then you haven't spent much time on 95 or 66/Toll Road in the mornings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you think living in Stafford our Loudon and commuting to the Pentagon or much of the NSA infrastructure is that much better than living in MoCo and commuting there, then you haven't spent much time on 95 or 66/Toll Road in the mornings.

If people are commuting to the Pentagon, they don’t need to cross the ALB. Either driving or transit. Your view of where people work in NoVA is limited. The private sector has vastly out paced public sector in terms of high paying and quality jobs. You may wan to check out where most corporate HQs are located.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s all Hogan, Hogan, Hogan with you. Sounds like you are taking county residents hostage because you have a problem with the political affiliation of the governor.

My problem is with the projects/policies the governor is proposing and refusing to propose, not with his political affiliation.

Too bad the governor prior to him didn't address it.

What was that guys name again and what party was he associated with? I cannot seem to recall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's clear none of these people need to drive any significant distance to work. FWIW, I take metro, but DH has to drive (we live in MD, he works in NoVA) and the traffic is insane. IIRC the expansion of 495 really only went to the 270 interchange anyway, right?

Yes, that's a horrible drive. The question is, is the best solution for the state of Maryland to sign a secret contract with a for-profit company to widen the highway with toll lanes?

What’s your solution?

My solution is more and better public transportation options, better and safer walking/biking connections to public transportation, more remote work, more off-peak work hours, more incentives for people to use public transportation instead of driving by themselves, and (last but not least) adding housing close to existing transit, services, and jobs.

Explain how your “more and better public transportation” that is going to get this person from upper MoCo to NoVA?

There is no current plan for this anywhere. Nor is there funding. The HOT lanes would’ve been ready in 3 years. Your plan, which is actually just an idea because there is no current plan, wouldn’t see fruition in decades. What should this person do until then, move out of the county?

Continue with their current commute, work out a telework plan, work out an off-peak commuting plan, look for a different job, look for a different place to live.

It's ridiculous to say that we have to go with Larry Hogan's plan on grounds that he has refused to propose any other plan. It's also ridiculous to say that it would take decades to start running more buses (for example).

You do realize there are a ton of workers that can't telework, right? Do you really want all these lauded "essential workers", those who work in national security, etc. to just up and leave their jobs do to a crap commute? While the # of people teleworking is probably not as high as early in the pandemic, it's pretty high compared to normal. And there's still a lot of traffic on 495 and 270.

I don't think the proposal is perfect, but there are no other proposals on the table to lessen the gridlock. The VA hot lanes are essentially wasted right now since they end at the bridge.

I’m the meantime VA is producing large numbers of relatively affordable SFHs in Loudon and Stafford that will probably look a lot more enticing to someone who doesn’t want to quit their job to stay living here.

Because the Loudon DC commute is so easy? The toll and I66 are very expensive and alternatives are slow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you think living in Stafford our Loudon and commuting to the Pentagon or much of the NSA infrastructure is that much better than living in MoCo and commuting there, then you haven't spent much time on 95 or 66/Toll Road in the mornings.

Right- this is partly why we live in MoCo. My spouse commutes to VA but I work in MD. There are (or were 5 yrs ago) more affordable pockets in MoCo that gave me a decent commute but are close to the beltway for him. If we had bought in VA we would have had to go further out and then we both would have had a long commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RIght...remember when there were like 15 alternatives and then suddenly they were all excluded except the HOT PPP alternatives?

Care to provide a link so I can read about the 15 alternatives that were proposed and seriously studied?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's clear none of these people need to drive any significant distance to work. FWIW, I take metro, but DH has to drive (we live in MD, he works in NoVA) and the traffic is insane. IIRC the expansion of 495 really only went to the 270 interchange anyway, right?

Yes, that's a horrible drive. The question is, is the best solution for the state of Maryland to sign a secret contract with a for-profit company to widen the highway with toll lanes?

What’s your solution?

My solution is more and better public transportation options, better and safer walking/biking connections to public transportation, more remote work, more off-peak work hours, more incentives for people to use public transportation instead of driving by themselves, and (last but not least) adding housing close to existing transit, services, and jobs.

Explain how your “more and better public transportation” that is going to get this person from upper MoCo to NoVA?

There is no current plan for this anywhere. Nor is there funding. The HOT lanes would’ve been ready in 3 years. Your plan, which is actually just an idea because there is no current plan, wouldn’t see fruition in decades. What should this person do until then, move out of the county?

Continue with their current commute, work out a telework plan, work out an off-peak commuting plan, look for a different job, look for a different place to live.

It's ridiculous to say that we have to go with Larry Hogan's plan on grounds that he has refused to propose any other plan. It's also ridiculous to say that it would take decades to start running more buses (for example).

You do realize there are a ton of workers that can't telework, right? Do you really want all these lauded "essential workers", those who work in national security, etc. to just up and leave their jobs do to a crap commute? While the # of people teleworking is probably not as high as early in the pandemic, it's pretty high compared to normal. And there's still a lot of traffic on 495 and 270.

I don't think the proposal is perfect, but there are no other proposals on the table to lessen the gridlock. The VA hot lanes are essentially wasted right now since they end at the bridge.

I’m the meantime VA is producing large numbers of relatively affordable SFHs in Loudon and Stafford that will probably look a lot more enticing to someone who doesn’t want to quit their job to stay living here.

Because the Loudon DC commute is so easy? The toll and I66 are very expensive and alternatives are slow.

Again, your presumption is that people commute to DC. The NoVA job centers are in Fairfax and Reston.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don’t have a credible alternative to Hogan’s plan. So it’s either his plan or no plan. I will go with the person that actually has a plan over the people without a plan thank you very much.

Really? I propose scrapping the bad plan and working to come up with a different, better plan, over going with the bad plan on the basis that the only current plan is the bad plan.

You say his plan is bad but there have never been any alternative plans. The current alternative plan is the second bridge which is currently under study, but also opposed by the county. The county is opposed to anything infrastructure, despite decades of promises (see M83). The state want to protect BWI. The combination of the two is a diminished economy that will impoverish this county. Protectionism never results I’m good outcomes nor does Luddite NIMBYism.

Oh good grief, you're an M83 supporter, too. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

It's not 1960 anymore.