NPS: Ban Cars Now in DC Urban Parks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing off Beach Drive is only viable because most people are still working from home due to the pandemic. As offices reopen in the fall and schools are back full-time, keeping Beach Drive closed will just force more commuter traffic into neighborhoods. Waze worked beautifully when Beach Drive was under construction. Prioritizing the leisure class who can strap on their lycra during normal business hours over people who actually have to work for a living isn't an argument for equity or better living standards for most Washingtonians - it's creating a personal park for those who can afford to live within walking distance of a major thoroughfare.

meh, Beach Drive was closed for three years to be rebuilt and it really didn't impact anything anywhere else.

Leave Blagdon and Broadbranch open and the upper part of Beach closed.

This is absolutely false. The Hawthorne neighborhood became a constant cut through and Western Ave was backed up for a mile or more. I live on Western and trying to get out of my driveway was a nightmare every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are objective standards to tell us whether a particular roadway is dangerous. You're the one claiming Hains Point is dangerous for pedestrians. If you're so sure of that, you should be able to provide evidence of your claim.

If your definition of a "safe" roadway is no deaths, ever, then there's no safe roadway in the world.

No, there aren't. There are subjective standards, for example: one or more serious injuries or deaths in a five-year period. By that standard, Hains Point is dangerous.

As for your second statement, it illustrates how much we in the US accept road deaths as normal and unavoidable. But road deaths are avoidable, and we should not accept road deaths as normal.

By that standard bicycles should be banned as well. Just so you know.

How many bicyclists have killed or seriously injured pedestrians on Ohio Drive in the last five years?

Fine, Ill trade you downtown for Hains Point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing off Beach Drive is only viable because most people are still working from home due to the pandemic. As offices reopen in the fall and schools are back full-time, keeping Beach Drive closed will just force more commuter traffic into neighborhoods. Waze worked beautifully when Beach Drive was under construction. Prioritizing the leisure class who can strap on their lycra during normal business hours over people who actually have to work for a living isn't an argument for equity or better living standards for most Washingtonians - it's creating a personal park for those who can afford to live within walking distance of a major thoroughfare.

meh, Beach Drive was closed for three years to be rebuilt and it really didn't impact anything anywhere else.

Leave Blagdon and Broadbranch open and the upper part of Beach closed.

This is absolutely false. The Hawthorne neighborhood became a constant cut through and Western Ave was backed up for a mile or more. I live on Western and trying to get out of my driveway was a nightmare every day.

It also.effed up Wisconsin and Connectixut

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are objective standards to tell us whether a particular roadway is dangerous. You're the one claiming Hains Point is dangerous for pedestrians. If you're so sure of that, you should be able to provide evidence of your claim.

If your definition of a "safe" roadway is no deaths, ever, then there's no safe roadway in the world.

No, there aren't. There are subjective standards, for example: one or more serious injuries or deaths in a five-year period. By that standard, Hains Point is dangerous.

As for your second statement, it illustrates how much we in the US accept road deaths as normal and unavoidable. But road deaths are avoidable, and we should not accept road deaths as normal.

By that standard bicycles should be banned as well. Just so you know.

How many bicyclists have killed or seriously injured pedestrians on Ohio Drive in the last five years?

Fine, Ill trade you downtown for Hains Point.

I don't think this trade is what you think it is, but I'll take it. Keep driving around Hains Point, while downtown becomes a car-free heaven. Sounds pretty great to me!

[Anonymous]

Sounds good to me too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP: Notice how the.cyclists.are using pedestrian deaths to advance a pro-cyclist (not a pedestrian) agenda. It really is very disgusting. Cyclists don't care about pedestrains. Pedestrians are just pawns in their war with cars.

PP, we're all anonymous here. How do you know which of the posts come from people who ride a bike? Let alone who exclusively ride a bike and never, ever walk (assuming that's even possible)?

Because pedestrians need a car to get to Hains Point. You're not trying to help pedestrians.

The only ways to get to Hains Point are (1) by car and (2) by bike? That seems like a problem.

There's a bus stop as well, IIRC. And you can walk from a couple of Metro stops, if you really want to.

The park isn't in a residential area, so it's never going to be easy to get there on foot, based on distances to the nearest residential areas in Foggy Bottom,

cars could be limited to a few parking lots. they do not need access to the whole park. people who need to bring a ton of stuff can just find a picnic spot near the lot, or get a few wagons.

The vast majority of East Potomac Park is a golf course. Vehicles only have access to the perimeter to begin with. The recreation area is effectively just the point. One of the open parking lots has to be the one at the playground/picnic area. You could easily close just the tip and direct cars through the lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are objective standards to tell us whether a particular roadway is dangerous. You're the one claiming Hains Point is dangerous for pedestrians. If you're so sure of that, you should be able to provide evidence of your claim.

If your definition of a "safe" roadway is no deaths, ever, then there's no safe roadway in the world.

No, there aren't. There are subjective standards, for example: one or more serious injuries or deaths in a five-year period. By that standard, Hains Point is dangerous.

As for your second statement, it illustrates how much we in the US accept road deaths as normal and unavoidable. But road deaths are avoidable, and we should not accept road deaths as normal.

By that standard bicycles should be banned as well. Just so you know.

How many bicyclists have killed or seriously injured pedestrians on Ohio Drive in the last five years?

Fine, Ill trade you downtown for Hains Point.

I don't think this trade is what you think it is, but I'll take it. Keep driving around Hains Point, while downtown becomes a car-free heaven. Sounds pretty great to me!

Nope the opppsite

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are objective standards to tell us whether a particular roadway is dangerous. You're the one claiming Hains Point is dangerous for pedestrians. If you're so sure of that, you should be able to provide evidence of your claim.

If your definition of a "safe" roadway is no deaths, ever, then there's no safe roadway in the world.

No, there aren't. There are subjective standards, for example: one or more serious injuries or deaths in a five-year period. By that standard, Hains Point is dangerous.

As for your second statement, it illustrates how much we in the US accept road deaths as normal and unavoidable. But road deaths are avoidable, and we should not accept road deaths as normal.

And you're engaging in sophistry if you make that argument. Using that standard, we'd have to close down most roads in the US.

Road deaths are not avoidable. So long as we have roads, people will die on them. We do a cost benefit analysis when deciding what level of road deaths are acceptable.

and my cost-benefit analysis is that a park should be a sanctuary from road death. restrict the cars.

And by that you mean, restrict the pedestrians (in order to save them). It's disgusting how you all are using tragic pedestrian deaths to try and limit their use of the park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP: Notice how the.cyclists.are using pedestrian deaths to advance a pro-cyclist (not a pedestrian) agenda. It really is very disgusting. Cyclists don't care about pedestrains. Pedestrians are just pawns in their war with cars.

PP, we're all anonymous here. How do you know which of the posts come from people who ride a bike? Let alone who exclusively ride a bike and never, ever walk (assuming that's even possible)?

Because pedestrians need a car to get to Hains Point. You're not trying to help pedestrians.

The only ways to get to Hains Point are (1) by car and (2) by bike? That seems like a problem.

There's a bus stop as well, IIRC. And you can walk from a couple of Metro stops, if you really want to.

The park isn't in a residential area, so it's never going to be easy to get there on foot, based on distances to the nearest residential areas in Foggy Bottom,

cars could be limited to a few parking lots. they do not need access to the whole park. people who need to bring a ton of stuff can just find a picnic spot near the lot, or get a few wagons.

The vast majority of East Potomac Park is a golf course. Vehicles only have access to the perimeter to begin with. The recreation area is effectively just the point. One of the open parking lots has to be the one at the playground/picnic area. You could easily close just the tip and direct cars through the lot.

People should be allowed to drive onto the golf course. It’s impinging on our freedoms. Besides, no one has ever died from being hit by a car on the golf course so it’s not a problem.

-a very smart person

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP: Notice how the.cyclists.are using pedestrian deaths to advance a pro-cyclist (not a pedestrian) agenda. It really is very disgusting. Cyclists don't care about pedestrains. Pedestrians are just pawns in their war with cars.

PP, we're all anonymous here. How do you know which of the posts come from people who ride a bike? Let alone who exclusively ride a bike and never, ever walk (assuming that's even possible)?

Because pedestrians need a car to get to Hains Point. You're not trying to help pedestrians.

The only ways to get to Hains Point are (1) by car and (2) by bike? That seems like a problem.

There's a bus stop as well, IIRC. And you can walk from a couple of Metro stops, if you really want to.

The park isn't in a residential area, so it's never going to be easy to get there on foot, based on distances to the nearest residential areas in Foggy Bottom,

cars could be limited to a few parking lots. they do not need access to the whole park. people who need to bring a ton of stuff can just find a picnic spot near the lot, or get a few wagons.

The vast majority of East Potomac Park is a golf course. Vehicles only have access to the perimeter to begin with. The recreation area is effectively just the point. One of the open parking lots has to be the one at the playground/picnic area. You could easily close just the tip and direct cars through the lot.

I’m sure there are many potential solutions to prevent some of the most beautiful and rare waterfront spances from being nothing more than a road to a parking lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP: Notice how the.cyclists.are using pedestrian deaths to advance a pro-cyclist (not a pedestrian) agenda. It really is very disgusting. Cyclists don't care about pedestrains. Pedestrians are just pawns in their war with cars.

PP, we're all anonymous here. How do you know which of the posts come from people who ride a bike? Let alone who exclusively ride a bike and never, ever walk (assuming that's even possible)?

Because pedestrians need a car to get to Hains Point. You're not trying to help pedestrians.

The only ways to get to Hains Point are (1) by car and (2) by bike? That seems like a problem.

There's a bus stop as well, IIRC. And you can walk from a couple of Metro stops, if you really want to.

The park isn't in a residential area, so it's never going to be easy to get there on foot, based on distances to the nearest residential areas in Foggy Bottom,

cars could be limited to a few parking lots. they do not need access to the whole park. people who need to bring a ton of stuff can just find a picnic spot near the lot, or get a few wagons.

The vast majority of East Potomac Park is a golf course. Vehicles only have access to the perimeter to begin with. The recreation area is effectively just the point. One of the open parking lots has to be the one at the playground/picnic area. You could easily close just the tip and direct cars through the lot.

I’m sure there are many potential solutions to prevent some of the most beautiful and rare waterfront spances from being nothing more than a road to a parking lot.

Only one subset of a subset of users is trying to prevent everyone else from enjoying the park

[Anonymous]

All this anti-car stuff seems so silly. The vast majority of people in DC drive. Almost no one in DC rides bikes. How about: Majority rules?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All this anti-car stuff seems so silly. The vast majority of people in DC drive. Almost no one in DC rides bikes. How about: Majority rules?

I just drove around for an hour. I saw a two bicyclists and more cars than I could count.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP: Notice how the.cyclists.are using pedestrian deaths to advance a pro-cyclist (not a pedestrian) agenda. It really is very disgusting. Cyclists don't care about pedestrains. Pedestrians are just pawns in their war with cars.

PP, we're all anonymous here. How do you know which of the posts come from people who ride a bike? Let alone who exclusively ride a bike and never, ever walk (assuming that's even possible)?

Because pedestrians need a car to get to Hains Point. You're not trying to help pedestrians.

The only ways to get to Hains Point are (1) by car and (2) by bike? That seems like a problem.

There's a bus stop as well, IIRC. And you can walk from a couple of Metro stops, if you really want to.

The park isn't in a residential area, so it's never going to be easy to get there on foot, based on distances to the nearest residential areas in Foggy Bottom,

cars could be limited to a few parking lots. they do not need access to the whole park. people who need to bring a ton of stuff can just find a picnic spot near the lot, or get a few wagons.

The vast majority of East Potomac Park is a golf course. Vehicles only have access to the perimeter to begin with. The recreation area is effectively just the point. One of the open parking lots has to be the one at the playground/picnic area. You could easily close just the tip and direct cars through the lot.

I’m sure there are many potential solutions to prevent some of the most beautiful and rare waterfront spances from being nothing more than a road to a parking lot.

Only one subset of a subset of users is trying to prevent everyone else from enjoying the park

one subset of users is actively preventing other people from using the park now, and actually killed some of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All this anti-car stuff seems so silly. The vast majority of people in DC drive. Almost no one in DC rides bikes. How about: Majority rules?

sure, why not just sell Hains Point to the highest bidder and let developers rip it all up and build condos?