Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many males don’t do a second shift at home come 6pm, 7pm, or 8pm.

They focus on themselves (have a beer, shovel food down, have a rest, read Apple news, watch tv, pass out on the couch), and maybe some short Goof Around time with their young kids.

They are not getting home and organizing a meal, getting kids ready for tomorrow, fixing things in the house, or planning the weekend, etc.. They’ve been conditioned by their parents or by Tv not to do anything. And they have crappy marriages and relationships with their kids to prove it.

Shall I tell you about my evening as a dad this week?

Monday: picked up kids, gave them snacks, took them to music lessons, made them dinner, helped DS with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Tuesday: picked up kids, took DS to sports practice, made them dinner, made them practice music, helped DS with homework, helped DD with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Wednesday: will pick them up, make them dinner, take DS to sports practice, help them with homework, make them practice music, will read to them before they go to sleep

No need to plan this weekend, it's already done -- because I did it -- mostly sports activities for both DS and DD

I have done this for years now, I will do it for years more.
I don't need approval or applause, I do it because I love my kids.

You are awesome, and I’d rather have a DH like you than my DH who makes 7 figures, and didn’t lift a finger at home whether I worked or stayed at home.

My DH does both. Shrug.

This is the thing I don't get about threads like this. You act like YOU have no agency in your own marriage. My husband respects me and my good opinion of him and I make him work for it. Yes he makes a lot of money. Great. But that doesn't mean he's not going to lift a finger at home. Oh no. I would just never allow that.

I honestly don't get it when women complain about this. I tell him when he's not meeting my standards and he works to improve. Same with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

This has been my experience as well. My husband does reasonably well financially (~750k) but more importantly, he has a very flexible job where he can come and go pretty much as he wants. He's leaving today at 3 to take one of our kids to the doctor. He doesn't coach but he makes every game, does pick up from most practices, attends ALL of their school stuff with me in the middle of the day.

If your prioritize your family, you'll find a way to make it work. That's all there is to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

This has been my experience as well. My husband does reasonably well financially (~750k) but more importantly, he has a very flexible job where he can come and go pretty much as he wants. He's leaving today at 3 to take one of our kids to the doctor. He doesn't coach but he makes every game, does pick up from most practices, attends ALL of their school stuff with me in the middle of the day.

If your prioritize your family, you'll find a way to make it work. That's all there is to it.

ExH and I have a fairly decent relationship and we co-parent extremely well. I make significantly less than he does. I'm squarely middle management and he's at the top of the food chain. We both have flexibility in our jobs but for us the key is constant communication about what needs to be done. I WFH so for the most part childcare falls to me. It's just easier as I'm home. But when I call and say I can't do XYZ, he is the one that has the flexibility to cancel meetings. I don't call for willy nilly things but our son has SN and when school calls and says someone needs to pick him up, ExH can move things around more easily than I can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

When you are that high up, you have more flexibility in your job schedule. Think Marissa Mayer and building a nursery next to her office. Middle management type who earn a solid living don't have as much flexibility.

I think there are two types of very high earning men -- one that uses the flexibility they have in their position to be an involved parent or uses their position as an excuse to shirk their duties as a parent/spouse (aka Trump).

It doesn't matter how much the man earns. What it comes down to is, "Is he willing and wanting to be a fully engaged partner and parent". You can have a low earning man not want to fully engage, too. It's not about money. It's about the man.

And yet Trump's kids all seem to adore him.

[Anonymous]

Work to be senior by mid30s and call the shots so you can be present at home or do things that come up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many males don’t do a second shift at home come 6pm, 7pm, or 8pm.

They focus on themselves (have a beer, shovel food down, have a rest, read Apple news, watch tv, pass out on the couch), and maybe some short Goof Around time with their young kids.

They are not getting home and organizing a meal, getting kids ready for tomorrow, fixing things in the house, or planning the weekend, etc.. They’ve been conditioned by their parents or by Tv not to do anything. And they have crappy marriages and relationships with their kids to prove it.

Shall I tell you about my evening as a dad this week?

Monday: picked up kids, gave them snacks, took them to music lessons, made them dinner, helped DS with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Tuesday: picked up kids, took DS to sports practice, made them dinner, made them practice music, helped DS with homework, helped DD with homework, read to them before they went to sleep
Wednesday: will pick them up, make them dinner, take DS to sports practice, help them with homework, make them practice music, will read to them before they go to sleep

No need to plan this weekend, it's already done -- because I did it -- mostly sports activities for both DS and DD

I have done this for years now, I will do it for years more.
I don't need approval or applause, I do it because I love my kids.

You are awesome, and I’d rather have a DH like you than my DH who makes 7 figures, and didn’t lift a finger at home whether I worked or stayed at home.

My DH does both. Shrug.

This is the thing I don't get about threads like this. You act like YOU have no agency in your own marriage. My husband respects me and my good opinion of him and I make him work for it. Yes he makes a lot of money. Great. But that doesn't mean he's not going to lift a finger at home. Oh no. I would just never allow that.

I honestly don't get it when women complain about this. I tell him when he's not meeting my standards and he works to improve. Same with me.

in case you didn’t realize, I was responding to PP, but thanks for the humblebrag and judgment/advice that no one asked for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

When you are that high up, you have more flexibility in your job schedule. Think Marissa Mayer and building a nursery next to her office. Middle management type who earn a solid living don't have as much flexibility.

I think there are two types of very high earning men -- one that uses the flexibility they have in their position to be an involved parent or uses their position as an excuse to shirk their duties as a parent/spouse (aka Trump).

It doesn't matter how much the man earns. What it comes down to is, "Is he willing and wanting to be a fully engaged partner and parent". You can have a low earning man not want to fully engage, too. It's not about money. It's about the man.

And yet Trump's kids all seem to adore him.

Yes, they are looking for affirmation, and because he gives them money and positions in his company. Duh. Per his exwife, he was never involved with his kids until they hit college. How sad.

Would you be ok with your DH not being involved with your kids until they hit 18? Or I guess if you are a man that is what you would like to do but your wife probably forces you to be involved in your children's lives. How sad for your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2019/09/09/marriage-rate-study-economically-unattractive-mxp-vpx.hln


This story discusses a Cornell study that says the reason that US marriage rates are at an all time low is because there is a shortage of economically attractive men. They are labeling economically unattractive as lacking a bachelors degree or making less than $40,000 a year. Apparently women are reluctant to "marry down" so are remaining single instead. Assuming this study is valid, why do you think there is such a shortage of men who are "economically attractive" to women?

Because some women think they are deserving of a Kardashian existence -- too much reality television.

Unmarried woman here. I make much more than 100K a year, own my home, and have a degree. I'm not at all uncommon in this area.

Why should I marry a guy who makes less than me? Doesn't own a home? And can't provide me a higher standard of living than I can for myself?

Especially considering the childbearing years and work would effectively halve my own income.

I'm genuinely curious.

LOL men do this every damn day because they want to be in love and help to support a family and create the next generation. What a colossally selfish post. Have fun being single!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read any of the responses but as a woman who is in the 1% and divorced from someone also in the 1%, a LTR with someone who is not successful either artistically, athletically or monetary is not in the cards for me.

What about aesthetically?

It’s not a super high priority. Personality would be far higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

When you are that high up, you have more flexibility in your job schedule. Think Marissa Mayer and building a nursery next to her office. Middle management type who earn a solid living don't have as much flexibility.

I think there are two types of very high earning men -- one that uses the flexibility they have in their position to be an involved parent or uses their position as an excuse to shirk their duties as a parent/spouse (aka Trump).

It doesn't matter how much the man earns. What it comes down to is, "Is he willing and wanting to be a fully engaged partner and parent". You can have a low earning man not want to fully engage, too. It's not about money. It's about the man.

And yet Trump's kids all seem to adore him.

He provides them with an incredible lifestyle. If they didn't "adore" him he'd cut them off in a minute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is definitely a thing that’s happening in small town America. The men are mostly NEET’s, or they have some dead end retail job or just do odd jobs here and there. The women see them (rightfully, IMO) as basically children, just another mouth to feed and support financially. A lot of them who are married or partnered will basically just quit working while the women work full time and also raise kids. Women would rather be single moms than married to a man-baby.

It’s like a woman without a vagina!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2019/09/09/marriage-rate-study-economically-unattractive-mxp-vpx.hln


This story discusses a Cornell study that says the reason that US marriage rates are at an all time low is because there is a shortage of economically attractive men. They are labeling economically unattractive as lacking a bachelors degree or making less than $40,000 a year. Apparently women are reluctant to "marry down" so are remaining single instead. Assuming this study is valid, why do you think there is such a shortage of men who are "economically attractive" to women?

Because some women think they are deserving of a Kardashian existence -- too much reality television.

Unmarried woman here. I make much more than 100K a year, own my home, and have a degree. I'm not at all uncommon in this area.

Why should I marry a guy who makes less than me? Doesn't own a home? And can't provide me a higher standard of living than I can for myself?

Especially considering the childbearing years and work would effectively halve my own income.

I'm genuinely curious.

LOL men do this every damn day because they want to be in love and help to support a family and create the next generation. What a colossally selfish post. Have fun being single!

I'm not a man. And quite frankly -- I think the ones who go into an agreement like this without a prenup are foolish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

This has been my experience as well. My husband does reasonably well financially (~750k) but more importantly, he has a very flexible job where he can come and go pretty much as he wants. He's leaving today at 3 to take one of our kids to the doctor. He doesn't coach but he makes every game, does pick up from most practices, attends ALL of their school stuff with me in the middle of the day.

If your prioritize your family, you'll find a way to make it work. That's all there is to it.

It’s easy for the CEO to bug out whenever he wants to. He’s in charge.

I’d like to see how some senior associates do when they have to leave for a sick kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

This has been my experience as well. My husband does reasonably well financially (~750k) but more importantly, he has a very flexible job where he can come and go pretty much as he wants. He's leaving today at 3 to take one of our kids to the doctor. He doesn't coach but he makes every game, does pick up from most practices, attends ALL of their school stuff with me in the middle of the day.

If your prioritize your family, you'll find a way to make it work. That's all there is to it.

Years ago my mother was visiting for a week and my husband would get home at 7 and then we would have dinner. Our kids would have had dinner at 6. One night she said “I don’t understand why you can’t be home for dinner at 5:30 like other husbands!” There was a long pause and then he said “If I could figure out how to live in a home like this and provide for your daughter and our kids the way I do and be home at 5:30 I would, but I’m just not that smart.” He never brought work home and was always with us on weekends. I always knew his family was his priority but he ran a big company and could not just head home every few days for a game. He wasn’t going to do things others in his company could not do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEO

s of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

This has been my experience as well. My husband does reasonably well financially (~750k) but more importantly, he has a very flexible job where he can come and go pretty much as he wants. He's leaving today at 3 to take one of our kids to the doctor. He doesn't coach but he makes every game, does pick up from most practices, attends ALL of their school stuff with me in the middle of the day.

If your prioritize your family, you'll find a way to make it work. That's all there is to it.

Years ago my mother was visiting for a week and my husband would get home at 7 and then we would have dinner. Our kids would have had dinner at 6. One night she said “I don’t understand why you can’t be home for dinner at 5:30 like other husbands!” There was a long pause and then he said “If I could figure out how to live in a home like this and provide for your daughter and our kids the way I do and be home at 5:30 I would, but I’m just not that smart.” He never brought work home and was always with us on weekends. I always knew his family was his priority but he ran a big company and could not just head home every few days for a game. He wasn’t going to do things others in his company could not do.

Your mother was out of bounds and your husband handled it gracefully but you should have checked her, too, and had his back.