immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing you posted says we need more unskilled immigrants.

Exactly this. Our country allows plenty of LEGAL, skilled immigrants to become citizens. We are not in any danger of a demographic decline, as much as the OP insists we are.

ya know, you are not convincing anyone if you fail to engage.

this entire thread just convinces me that the DCUM Trumpers have no interest in facts or policy. Which I guess isn't surprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

This

Please, you're going to have to do better than "bingo" and "this." Actual research, please.

Are you the PP (OP?) who keeps demanding the thread go the way you want it to go? No. Take a seat. The original PP, above, laid out a rational, common sense suggestion and two other PPs agreed. You simply didn't like the suggestion and can't stand that people are agreeing. There doesn't have to be "research" for someone to lay out their ideas. Grow up and stop telling others what to do and how to write their posts.

why are you so scared of examining actual policies? I actually find the class analysis posters are bringing in to be interesting and important, albeit funny to turn people into marxists. what you can't do is claim you have "ideas" of any merit when you continue to repeat canards that have been rebuttted time and time again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

This

Please, you're going to have to do better than "bingo" and "this." Actual research, please.

Are you the PP (OP?) who keeps demanding the thread go the way you want it to go? No. Take a seat. The original PP, above, laid out a rational, common sense suggestion and two other PPs agreed. You simply didn't like the suggestion and can't stand that people are agreeing. There doesn't have to be "research" for someone to lay out their ideas. Grow up and stop telling others what to do and how to write their posts.

why are you so scared of examining actual policies? I actually find the class analysis posters are bringing in to be interesting and important, albeit funny to turn people into marxists. what you can't do is claim you have "ideas" of any merit when you continue to repeat canards that have been rebuttted time and time again.

They haven't. You saying it doesn't make it so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing you posted says we need more unskilled immigrants.

Exactly this. Our country allows plenty of LEGAL, skilled immigrants to become citizens. We are not in any danger of a demographic decline, as much as the OP insists we are.

ya know, you are not convincing anyone if you fail to engage.

this entire thread just convinces me that the DCUM Trumpers have no interest in facts or policy. Which I guess isn't surprising.

Actually no one has set out to convince you of anything. You are the one who started this thread, who keeps posting pages and pages of irrelevant articles and whatnot. You are just annoyed no one finds your argument convincing. That's OK. Can't win them all, can you. When mad, you can always call your opponents Trumpers. That should work. Never mind that you have not a slightest idea of their political inclinations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.

No. You need to accept that your imputation of immorality to illegal immigrants is not the only possible position. And, please focus on the actual question in the post. Are you able to understand the situation Japan is in due to is immigration policies? Do you understand that people are here illegally because the US economy NEEDS them, and therefore our policies don't actually keep them out?

Again, if what you're saying is that we need to create routes of legal immigration to regularize our labor force - I totally agree. And, this is the Democratic party position.

We are not impugning immorality to illegal aliens. We are starting the obvious, which liberals continue to disregard - they are breaking our laws by coming here the way they do.

And they are not coming here because the U.S. economy needs them. They are a net drain to Americans. They are coming here for the benefits of U.S. residency, which does not justify their flouting the immigration law.

I just wish liberals had the same concern and sympathy for Americans who are struggling than for foreigners who are scofflaws.

I've posted a kagillion articles rebutting this, from all over the political spectrum.

DP

And you can post all the BS articles you want. The data means nothing because it can be manipulated to support either side.

But for those of us who live in communities with high numbers of illegal immigrants, we see exactly what kind of a toll it takes on the neighborhood. Financially and otherwise.

I’m sorry you are still stuck in this situation. Can you move? Or would you lose a lot of money on your house?

PP here

Spouse and I are currently having this very discussion. We are lucky in that we've paid off a good chunk of our mortgage, and can leave. Two of our neighbors have already left, and one family skips MCPS for private school. However, we're not sure where to go! MoCo has had illegal immigration affect the entire county. From what I understand, Fairfax County faces similar challenges.

We'll see. We're not the only ones in our Middle Class suburb wrestling with this issue, however. And, we're not White, FWIW. We've lived in a very diverse, solidly middle class area on MoCo for over 15 years, but recent years have led to a complete lack on housing code enforcement, etc, which has led to declines in our neighborhood. It's been a bummer to watch.

DP. My parents' neighborhood has really gone downhill too as a result of the influx of non-English speaking immgrants, a percentage of which are illegal. (The school rating is a 3, and the worst in MoCo.) The majority of students are on free lunches and a very high percentage are ESOL. There are five and six cars in front of many houses, with multiple families squeezed into SFHs. It's sad. It used to be an upper-middle class neighborhood when I lived there.

Anyone who claims that an influx of uneducated, unskilled, non-English speaking families does not bring down a neighborhood doesn't live in one.

We should just have laws so landlords don't have to rent to teh Mexicans and banks don't have to make mortgages to them, amirite?

Not the PP, but you're being obtuse.

We actually DO have laws in MoCo regarding how many families can live in a SFH rental. But, when the residents are not documented, it's impossible to prove who lives there, and results in major overcrowding, which carries over to the schools.

As a matter of fact, we do have laws about who can enter and legally stay and work in the country, but some counties ignore those laws also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

Is it your contention that there are physically no able-bodied Americans capable of working in services, construction or agriculture? No? Could it be that the demand for them is cut from the same cloth as the demand for Bangladeshi construction workers in Dubai?

It is abundantly obvious that there are not enough Americans who will do low-skilled labor. Americans expect to make more money and have more opportunities for advancement.

There are PLENTY of jails that can outsource field work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

Is it your contention that there are physically no able-bodied Americans capable of working in services, construction or agriculture? No? Could it be that the demand for them is cut from the same cloth as the demand for Bangladeshi construction workers in Dubai?

It is abundantly obvious that there are not enough Americans who will do low-skilled labor. Americans expect to make more money and have more opportunities for advancement.

My brother’s landscaping company went capital because the Potomac richies rather have Jose for $20 a mow, than a US company for $30.

Last time I checked Americans did the skilled labor UNTIL the illegals came into do it cheaper. So now we pay for their benefits and the kids they pop out yearly on top of bancrupt businesses and unemployment.

Also, last time I checked, minimum wage jobs were for high schoolers, college kids, part time adults, and retirees. Now we have immigrants running every store/restaurant in MoCo and want to work FT as a cashier and get paid $15 an hour. The same as anEMT with years of training. Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You seem to confuse "low skill" with "permanent underclass." But I am so thrilled that you are concerned about income inequality (are you a Bernie bro?) and class-based analysis. As I have stated and posted research to support multiple times, regularizing labor is the *best* way to start protecting low-skill workers. After that, there's a lot we can do for the whole class, like union rights and minumum wage. As for the low-skill immigrants themselves, the researcj shows the move to the US is the big leap in social mobility, then their kids continue the upward trajectory.

There are plenty of low-skilled and unskilled natives in this big country. They already have union rights and minimum wage. Why do employers turn to illegal labor? Because it's cheap. That's what you're arguing for - a stable pool of cheap labor. But sure. It feels like coming up in the world if you're coming from the slums of Lagos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.

No. You need to accept that your imputation of immorality to illegal immigrants is not the only possible position. And, please focus on the actual question in the post. Are you able to understand the situation Japan is in due to is immigration policies? Do you understand that people are here illegally because the US economy NEEDS them, and therefore our policies don't actually keep them out?

Again, if what you're saying is that we need to create routes of legal immigration to regularize our labor force - I totally agree. And, this is the Democratic party position.

We are not impugning immorality to illegal aliens. We are starting the obvious, which liberals continue to disregard - they are breaking our laws by coming here the way they do.

And they are not coming here because the U.S. economy needs them. They are a net drain to Americans. They are coming here for the benefits of U.S. residency, which does not justify their flouting the immigration law.

I just wish liberals had the same concern and sympathy for Americans who are struggling than for foreigners who are scofflaws.

I've posted a kagillion articles rebutting this, from all over the political spectrum.

DP

And you can post all the BS articles you want. The data means nothing because it can be manipulated to support either side.

But for those of us who live in communities with high numbers of illegal immigrants, we see exactly what kind of a toll it takes on the neighborhood. Financially and otherwise.

I’m sorry you are still stuck in this situation. Can you move? Or would you lose a lot of money on your house?

PP here

Spouse and I are currently having this very discussion. We are lucky in that we've paid off a good chunk of our mortgage, and can leave. Two of our neighbors have already left, and one family skips MCPS for private school. However, we're not sure where to go! MoCo has had illegal immigration affect the entire county. From what I understand, Fairfax County faces similar challenges.

We'll see. We're not the only ones in our Middle Class suburb wrestling with this issue, however. And, we're not White, FWIW. We've lived in a very diverse, solidly middle class area on MoCo for over 15 years, but recent years have led to a complete lack on housing code enforcement, etc, which has led to declines in our neighborhood. It's been a bummer to watch.

DP. My parents' neighborhood has really gone downhill too as a result of the influx of non-English speaking immgrants, a percentage of which are illegal. (The school rating is a 3, and the worst in MoCo.) The majority of students are on free lunches and a very high percentage are ESOL. There are five and six cars in front of many houses, with multiple families squeezed into SFHs. It's sad. It used to be an upper-middle class neighborhood when I lived there.

Anyone who claims that an influx of uneducated, unskilled, non-English speaking families does not bring down a neighborhood doesn't live in one.

This, exactly. OP, we're looking at you.

Op here. One of the favorite places I lived was a 95% dominican neighborhood in NYC. I am not scared of Spanish, I guess?

That's nice. Why did you leave? Do you plan to go back and raise your kids there so that they can attend school in that neighborhood? Be honest, please.

I'm not scared of Spanish either. What does that even mean? I speak Spanish, lived in Spain for a few months, and have traveled around Central South America.

Why would you even mention being 'scared of Spanish'. Do you think that the only uneducated, unskilled, non-English speaking families in my MoCo neighborhood are Spanish speakers? Not even close. Maybe your racist tendencies are showing.

The people who are here illegally are from all over the world. We have Asians, Muslims, Jews, everyone. Illegal immigration is not limited to one language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

Is it your contention that there are physically no able-bodied Americans capable of working in services, construction or agriculture? No? Could it be that the demand for them is cut from the same cloth as the demand for Bangladeshi construction workers in Dubai?

It is abundantly obvious that there are not enough Americans who will do low-skilled labor. Americans expect to make more money and have more opportunities for advancement.

My brother’s landscaping company went capital because the Potomac richies rather have Jose for $20 a mow, than a US company for $30.

Last time I checked Americans did the skilled labor UNTIL the illegals came into do it cheaper. So now we pay for their benefits and the kids they pop out yearly on top of bancrupt businesses and unemployment.

Also, last time I checked, minimum wage jobs were for high schoolers, college kids, part time adults, and retirees. Now we have immigrants running every store/restaurant in MoCo and want to work FT as a cashier and get paid $15 an hour. The same as anEMT with years of training. Give me a break.

This exactly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Op here. One of the favorite places I lived was a 95% dominican neighborhood in NYC. I am not scared of Spanish, I guess?

Way to go to belittle the experience the poster reports. If only he were more enlightened! If only he wasn't scared of Spanish! Then his property values wouldn't tank and his kids' school wouldn't have gone to shits. It's all about fear you see. Not the trash, not the dilapidation, not the overwhelmed schools, not the wave of poor uneducated folks in his neighborhood. It's all about fear of Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

You have yet to address the question that's been posed to you several times: you are advocating for a permanent, low-paid, unskilled underclass, correct? Yet you pay lip service to the concept that income disparity in the US has never been greater, and you feel that needs to change. So which is it?? Answer the question.

You seem to confuse "low skill" with "permanent underclass." But I am so thrilled that you are concerned about income inequality (are you a Bernie bro?) and class-based analysis. As I have stated and posted research to support multiple times, regularizing labor is the *best* way to start protecting low-skill workers. After that, there's a lot we can do for the whole class, like union rights and minumum wage. As for the low-skill immigrants themselves, the researcj shows the move to the US is the big leap in social mobility, then their kids continue the upward trajectory.

You've repeated these talking points of yours ad nauseum. The fact is, you ARE advocating for a permanent underclass. Low skill does indeed = underclass, no matter how much you argue to the contrary. Essentially, you're insisting we need to import *illegal* immigrants to do the unskilled work labor requires. So forgive me (and others) if we just think you're incredibly disingenuous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

You have yet to address the question that's been posed to you several times: you are advocating for a permanent, low-paid, unskilled underclass, correct? Yet you pay lip service to the concept that income disparity in the US has never been greater, and you feel that needs to change. So which is it?? Answer the question.

You seem to confuse "low skill" with "permanent underclass." But I am so thrilled that you are concerned about income inequality (are you a Bernie bro?) and class-based analysis. As I have stated and posted research to support multiple times, regularizing labor is the *best* way to start protecting low-skill workers. After that, there's a lot we can do for the whole class, like union rights and minumum wage. As for the low-skill immigrants themselves, the researcj shows the move to the US is the big leap in social mobility, then their kids continue the upward trajectory.

You've repeated these talking points of yours ad nauseum. The fact is, you ARE advocating for a permanent underclass. Low skill does indeed = underclass, no matter how much you argue to the contrary. Essentially, you're insisting we need to import *illegal* immigrants to do the unskilled work labor requires. So forgive me (and others) if we just think you're incredibly disingenuous.

It's not low skill that makes it underclass, it's that she insists that it must come cheap. There are plenty of low skilled Americans. Employers who turn to the illegal labor force do so to save money. No other reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Op here. One of the favorite places I lived was a 95% dominican neighborhood in NYC. I am not scared of Spanish, I guess?

Way to go to belittle the experience the poster reports. If only he were more enlightened! If only he wasn't scared of Spanish! Then his property values wouldn't tank and his kids' school wouldn't have gone to shits. It's all about fear you see. Not the trash, not the dilapidation, not the overwhelmed schools, not the wave of poor uneducated folks in his neighborhood. It's all about fear of Spanish.

THIS. Thank you, PP. OP is a moron and I think I'll just stop responding to OP's posts. Maybe this asinine thread will die a well-deserved death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Op here. One of the favorite places I lived was a 95% dominican neighborhood in NYC. I am not scared of Spanish, I guess?

Way to go to belittle the experience the poster reports. If only he were more enlightened! If only he wasn't scared of Spanish! Then his property values wouldn't tank and his kids' school wouldn't have gone to shits. It's all about fear you see. Not the trash, not the dilapidation, not the overwhelmed schools, not the wave of poor uneducated folks in his neighborhood. It's all about fear of Spanish.

THIS. Thank you, PP. OP is a moron and I think I'll just stop responding to OP's posts. Maybe this asinine thread will die a well-deserved death.

It's dying because you have proven, definitively, that Trump supporter's anti-immigrant stance is based on ignorance, gullibility, and racism. You ignore research from across the political spectrum (Brookings, Cato, WSJ, and more) and have nothing to fall back on but slogans and incorrect conventional wisdom. I think you literally can't understand that other people don't viscerally hate "illegals" as much as you. I've given you an honest chance at coming up with well-supported arguments -- ya got nothing.

I'm not dumb enough to think that elections are won on good policies and facts, and I have no doubt that Bannon & Miller have done a great job turning this into an issue to solify their white base.

But, I have satisfied myself that the DCUM Trumpers have no substance or capability.