immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you're an idiot. All of these low IQ jobs are going to be replaced by AI within the foreseeable future and then we're going to be left with millions of unskilled laborers that can't be retrained. Japan has timed it perfectly......they don't need labor for jobs that robots will fill and the dwindling population can enjoy their lives in a prosperous, crime-free state that is free of strife.

Exactly. Why let them all in when the need will be obsolete in a few years? Pay some unemployed folks extra for the time being. Or maybe some high school and college kids could, gasp, get a real summer job rather than doing unpaid internships.

Exactly. My kid did an internship on the hill, but still kept a paying job 6pm-9pm for an entire summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Oh, and let me fix that for you. Like it or not, there IS a difference between legal and illegal immigrants.

Just like there are legal motorists and illegal motorists. When someone exceeds the posted speed limit, we take away their kids. #Justice

You have zero sense of proportionality. And that's probably the least of your issues.
-DP

You're going to have to explain it better than that. If immigrants are not inherently good or bad, then immigrating without proper paperwork is just a regulatory crime. (I think Trump supporters call these "process crimes.") The seriousness of that offense depends on how well designed the regulations are. Our immigration system is not well designed. For starters, we haven't funded it well enough to make it sufficiently efficient.

If someone speeds, I know that they're more likely to hurt someone than someone who doesn't speed. I don't know that an immigrant here without the proper paperwork is any more likely to cause me harm than an immigrant with all the signatures and stamps in order.

I honestly can't believe I'm wasting time replying to such a dolt, but here goes. Illegal immigrants aren't simply hopping into the US for a day trip. They're not coming here to go shopping and then return to their home country later that day. They come here with the full expectation of LIVING here, with everything that entails - free healthcare, free education, under-the-table cash jobs, etc. If you actually think that "immigrating without proper paperwork" is simply a "regulatory crime," then you're clearly ignorant of the types of neighborhoods that have been described for you on this very thread - those in which illegal immigrants have crowded into SFHs and schools, bringing down home values.

I'm curious: why are you so insistent that we allow illegal immigrants in? Why are you arguing for open borders? You do know we accept plenty of LEGAL immigrants, right? So your bizarre comparison to Japan is way off-base.

It's not enough

The US needs an underclass to do menial jobs and to support SS. The alternative is for the more educated to have more kids but like Japan that isn't happening.

So, as suspected, you're advocating for a permanent underclass. Yet you're probably one of the same people railing against "income disparity" and insisting more needs to be done to close the gap. What a hypocrite.

DP. Again - what creates an underclass is PRECISELY that the economy is allowed to run on a pool of illegal labor. Regularlizing their status combats exploitation -- it's the single most important thing to do. You kind of tell on yourself when you assume that advocating for low-skill labor is the equivalent to exploiting them.

Exactly!!

Oh. Ok. So we simply "regularize" illegal immigrants (by that, I assume you mean give them citizenship?) and there's no way millions more won't follow, after hearing they will be "regularized" once in the US, right? Get real. The very last thing we need are MORE illegal immigrants trying to get in the country. There's already no place for the ones at the border, and WE end up footing the bill.

Well said. We need to address our CURRENT homeless population FIRST.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all those who rail against "illegals" -- do you really want us to end up like Japan, with a super-aging population, and not enough workers to support the economy? And now that Japan is trying to get immigrants, the immigrants don't want to stay because of xenophobia.

Where exactly do you picture the US ending up if we don't maintain our level of immigration? What's your plan here? Do you want to be cared for by robots in your old age?

If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform.

On Japan:

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/21/679103541/japans-population-is-in-rapid-decline

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/japan/2018-08-03/japan-becoming-country-immigration

logic isn't your strong suit OP.

illegal immigration is an issue and should be stopped. No one is against legal immigration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys are saying you're against illegal immigration, but it sounds like you're problem is really with poor people. Given a choice between rich illegal immigrants and poor legal immigrants, you'd choose the rich immigrants. So it's not the illegality, it's the poverty.

There is nothing attractive in poverty and there is no need to import it. We need less poverty, not more. There are no redeeming values in it.

Rich immigrants are rarely illegal, seeing that they can afford legal help and the US still sells permanent residency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys are saying you're against illegal immigration, but it sounds like you're problem is really with poor people. Given a choice between rich illegal immigrants and poor legal immigrants, you'd choose the rich immigrants. So it's not the illegality, it's the poverty.

Where do you get that from? That’s certainly not the case for me and most people that I know who are opposed to illegal immigration. Didn’t you see the other thread about Russion women coming here to have babies and take advantage of US citizenship for their kids? I find that absurd. Most posters in that thread also found that absurd.

Also, I doubt there are a ton of rich people trying to immigrate here illegally. They would just come here via legal routes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are saying you're against illegal immigration, but it sounds like you're problem is really with poor people. Given a choice between rich illegal immigrants and poor legal immigrants, you'd choose the rich immigrants. So it's not the illegality, it's the poverty.

Where do you get that from? That’s certainly not the case for me and most people that I know who are opposed to illegal immigration. Didn’t you see the other thread about Russion women coming here to have babies and take advantage of US citizenship for their kids? I find that absurd. Most posters in that thread also found that absurd.

Also, I doubt there are a ton of rich people trying to immigrate here illegally. They would just come here via legal routes.

Just to point out that these Russian women aren't doing anything illegal and aren't immigrating per se. So they are not at all germane to the topic of illegal immigration.

[Anonymous]

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are saying you're against illegal immigration, but it sounds like you're problem is really with poor people. Given a choice between rich illegal immigrants and poor legal immigrants, you'd choose the rich immigrants. So it's not the illegality, it's the poverty.

Where do you get that from? That’s certainly not the case for me and most people that I know who are opposed to illegal immigration. Didn’t you see the other thread about Russion women coming here to have babies and take advantage of US citizenship for their kids? I find that absurd. Most posters in that thread also found that absurd.

Also, I doubt there are a ton of rich people trying to immigrate here illegally. They would just come here via legal routes.

Just to point out that these Russian women aren't doing anything illegal and aren't immigrating per se. So they are not at all germane to the topic of illegal immigration.

PP here

You're right. Thought it's somewhat germane because it might support a case to end birthright citizenship. Obviously many people, from all over the world, of all races, are taking advantage of the United States' crazy immigration laws, and ridiculously lax immigration enforcement.

[Anonymous]

The very title the OP selected reveals the venom she feels for people who want to crack down on illegal immigration. "Immigrant haters"? Get real. It's that very type of holier-than-thou attitude that has turned the majority of Americans off to the far-leftists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The very title the OP selected reveals the venom she feels for people who want to crack down on illegal immigration. "Immigrant haters"? Get real. It's that very type of holier-than-thou attitude that has turned the majority of Americans off to the far-leftists.

Definitely describes me. A previous Democratic voter who is 100% voting for Trump in the next election for this very reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Oh, and let me fix that for you. Like it or not, there IS a difference between legal and illegal immigrants.

Just like there are legal motorists and illegal motorists. When someone exceeds the posted speed limit, we take away their kids. #Justice

You have zero sense of proportionality. And that's probably the least of your issues.
-DP

You're going to have to explain it better than that. If immigrants are not inherently good or bad, then immigrating without proper paperwork is just a regulatory crime. (I think Trump supporters call these "process crimes.") The seriousness of that offense depends on how well designed the regulations are. Our immigration system is not well designed. For starters, we haven't funded it well enough to make it sufficiently efficient.

If someone speeds, I know that they're more likely to hurt someone than someone who doesn't speed. I don't know that an immigrant here without the proper paperwork is any more likely to cause me harm than an immigrant with all the signatures and stamps in order.

Well it's not like they are hanged and quartered for that process crime. You say it's a process crime, I say deporting them is a process solution. Just like if you got your driver's license improperly, the solution is to take it away, not execute you summarily. Deportation doesn't kill anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just "menial jobs." Yes, the need for low-skill immigrants does reflect a need for low-skill labor. But the demographic collapse is overall -- there just won't be the wage base, at any economic level.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/12/21/us-population-growth-hits-80-year-low-capping-off-a-year-of-demographic-stagnation/

You've posted an article that uses the word "stagnation", not "collapse."

Pardon me!

If you misstated that one, it's not at all inappropriate to wonder what other things you've mis-characterized to better suit your argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very title the OP selected reveals the venom she feels for people who want to crack down on illegal immigration. "Immigrant haters"? Get real. It's that very type of holier-than-thou attitude that has turned the majority of Americans off to the far-leftists.

Definitely describes me. A previous Democratic voter who is 100% voting for Trump in the next election for this very reason.

PP you responded to here. I've leaned center right for years, but did often vote for the D in state elections because the R was too conservative. Seeing how crazy and hateful the Ds have become, though, I will vote straight R the next election.

[Anonymous]

The only-rich-immigrants people have no clue about the economy or the labor force.

We really don't need the immigration system to bring in money. Foreign investment comes here without immigration.

We don't need the immigration system to focus on bringing in more mid-level and higher professionals. The biggest problem I see in our current labor force (I recruit for our company in NOVA) is that we have a lot of underemployed people (e.g. people with master's degrees in unchallenging jobs that do not require a bachelor's degree). I see parents stressfully trying to change career fields because there are not enough opportunities for advancement where they are. The legal immigration system's focus on bringing in only those with higher education is directly competing with them.

We do need the immigration system to legally let in more hard working immigrants in low-skilled labor markets - agriculture, services, construction, etc. These currently are undocumented workers because they are shunned by the legal immigration system.

Unemployment among U.S. citizens has been low for a while, to the point that any U.S. citizen who is willing and able to work can find a job, though it may not be the job they want or think that they deserve. Citizens are looking for middle-income opportunities, not laboring jobs with little hope for advancement. Those jobs would be better going to immigrants who are eager to work to build a life for themselves and their families in the U.S. Throughout the history of the U.S., immigrants have worked these jobs that do not require English fluency, school connections, rich relatives, or other cronyism.

If all you care about is legal vs. illegal, the solution is to change the legal immigration system to let in more of the service and labor workers that are in demand in the labor market as legal immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only-rich-immigrants people have no clue about the economy or the labor force.

We really don't need the immigration system to bring in money. Foreign investment comes here without immigration.

We don't need the immigration system to focus on bringing in more mid-level and higher professionals. The biggest problem I see in our current labor force (I recruit for our company in NOVA) is that we have a lot of underemployed people (e.g. people with master's degrees in unchallenging jobs that do not require a bachelor's degree). I see parents stressfully trying to change career fields because there are not enough opportunities for advancement where they are. The legal immigration system's focus on bringing in only those with higher education is directly competing with them.

We do need the immigration system to legally let in more hard working immigrants in low-skilled labor markets - agriculture, services, construction, etc. These currently are undocumented workers because they are shunned by the legal immigration system.

Unemployment among U.S. citizens has been low for a while, to the point that any U.S. citizen who is willing and able to work can find a job, though it may not be the job they want or think that they deserve. Citizens are looking for middle-income opportunities, not laboring jobs with little hope for advancement. Those jobs would be better going to immigrants who are eager to work to build a life for themselves and their families in the U.S. Throughout the history of the U.S., immigrants have worked these jobs that do not require English fluency, school connections, rich relatives, or other cronyism.

If all you care about is legal vs. illegal, the solution is to change the legal immigration system to let in more of the service and labor workers that are in demand in the labor market as legal immigrants.

NP: what people are talking about is about SKILLED immigrants, not wealthy ones.

Makes all the sense in the world -- which is why Canada does it.