Accommodation Nation

[Anonymous]

^ the majority aren’t “other time” kids, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this play out with 3 kids who went through a local top private school. The third is currently a senior.

The school is very rigorous: lots of homework, grade deflation.

The top 20% of the class doesn't have accommodations. They are really, really bright kids. They can keep up with the work, even when it gets more challenging and despite taking the most rigorous classes.

The kids beneath this start to struggle in high school, especially in 10th grade and up. They can't keep up with the top achievers, they start getting more B+s, they drown under the homework, they're not happy. Then BAM: The college admissions process starts and their parents have their first look at what their kid's college prospects are, given their grades. Panic ensues and these kids get taken to a psychologist for an evaluation and end up with extra time for "anxiety." And yes, they are genuinely anxious because they're way in over the heads at school and have parents who have unrealistic expectations. And COLLEGE STRESS LOOMS.

Some of this cohort will end up getting extra time with the College Board for the SAT, etc. Some will not. All will try.

However, in the end, the top 20% will get the Ivy spots and this next cohort will end up at schools in the next few deciles because ultimately, all this intervention in 10th or 11th grade is too little, too late.

I have seen this exact process happen with 3 kids over the span of 8 years. Probably a dozen kids each time.

I've seen this happen a lot too, especially in wealthy families, however I disagree that kids with accommodations are somehow outside of the top 20%. When you see Stanford reporting 38% with disabilities, you know a fair number of them had extra time on their tests and were awarded with admission to Stanford.

Yeah, the PP’s anecdote is off base. Ivy schools and top 10 schools, per the article, are reporting anywhere from 20-40% of their student body have accommodations for “disabilities” so obviously they are getting in

Students get those order to get AC or their own rooms once they are there. My son’s dorm mate wanted a single sophomore year and dad is a doctor…bingo.

What is the disability that gets a student into a single room? Social anxiety?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Collar, the University of Chicago physics professor, said that part of what his exams are designed to assess is the ability to solve problems in a certain amount of time. But now many of his students are in a separate room, with time and a half or even double the allotted time to complete the test. “I feel for the students who are not taking advantage of this,” he told me. “We have a two-speed student population.”

This prof is in power to do something about this by redesigning his tests, for the sake of the kids he “feel(s) for.” But methinks he will not, and is therefore a schmuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this play out with 3 kids who went through a local top private school. The third is currently a senior.

The school is very rigorous: lots of homework, grade deflation.

The top 20% of the class doesn't have accommodations. They are really, really bright kids. They can keep up with the work, even when it gets more challenging and despite taking the most rigorous classes.

The kids beneath this start to struggle in high school, especially in 10th grade and up. They can't keep up with the top achievers, they start getting more B+s, they drown under the homework, they're not happy. Then BAM: The college admissions process starts and their parents have their first look at what their kid's college prospects are, given their grades. Panic ensues and these kids get taken to a psychologist for an evaluation and end up with extra time for "anxiety." And yes, they are genuinely anxious because they're way in over the heads at school and have parents who have unrealistic expectations. And COLLEGE STRESS LOOMS.

Some of this cohort will end up getting extra time with the College Board for the SAT, etc. Some will not. All will try.

However, in the end, the top 20% will get the Ivy spots and this next cohort will end up at schools in the next few deciles because ultimately, all this intervention in 10th or 11th grade is too little, too late.

I have seen this exact process happen with 3 kids over the span of 8 years. Probably a dozen kids each time.

I've seen this happen a lot too, especially in wealthy families, however I disagree that kids with accommodations are somehow outside of the top 20%. When you see Stanford reporting 38% with disabilities, you know a fair number of them had extra time on their tests and were awarded with admission to Stanford.

Yeah, the PP’s anecdote is off base. Ivy schools and top 10 schools, per the article, are reporting anywhere from 20-40% of their student body have accommodations for “disabilities” so obviously they are getting in

Students get those order to get AC or their own rooms once they are there. My son’s dorm mate wanted a single sophomore year and dad is a doctor…bingo.

What is the disability that gets a student into a single room? Social anxiety?

Their ADHD speed medication means they are up at all hours…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this play out with 3 kids who went through a local top private school. The third is currently a senior.

The school is very rigorous: lots of homework, grade deflation.

The top 20% of the class doesn't have accommodations. They are really, really bright kids. They can keep up with the work, even when it gets more challenging and despite taking the most rigorous classes.

The kids beneath this start to struggle in high school, especially in 10th grade and up. They can't keep up with the top achievers, they start getting more B+s, they drown under the homework, they're not happy. Then BAM: The college admissions process starts and their parents have their first look at what their kid's college prospects are, given their grades. Panic ensues and these kids get taken to a psychologist for an evaluation and end up with extra time for "anxiety." And yes, they are genuinely anxious because they're way in over the heads at school and have parents who have unrealistic expectations. And COLLEGE STRESS LOOMS.

Some of this cohort will end up getting extra time with the College Board for the SAT, etc. Some will not. All will try.

However, in the end, the top 20% will get the Ivy spots and this next cohort will end up at schools in the next few deciles because ultimately, all this intervention in 10th or 11th grade is too little, too late.

I have seen this exact process happen with 3 kids over the span of 8 years. Probably a dozen kids each time.

I've seen this happen a lot too, especially in wealthy families, however I disagree that kids with accommodations are somehow outside of the top 20%. When you see Stanford reporting 38% with disabilities, you know a fair number of them had extra time on their tests and were awarded with admission to Stanford.

Yeah, the PP’s anecdote is off base. Ivy schools and top 10 schools, per the article, are reporting anywhere from 20-40% of their student body have accommodations for “disabilities” so obviously they are getting in

Students get those order to get AC or their own rooms once they are there. My son’s dorm mate wanted a single sophomore year and dad is a doctor…bingo.

What is the disability that gets a student into a single room? Social anxiety?

That might work but a better diagnosis would be something like sleep apnea, with a CPAP machine. But also much harder to get if you don't actually have it, especially since the CPAP machine would be insurance fraud. So social anxiety it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Collar, the University of Chicago physics professor, said that part of what his exams are designed to assess is the ability to solve problems in a certain amount of time. But now many of his students are in a separate room, with time and a half or even double the allotted time to complete the test. “I feel for the students who are not taking advantage of this,” he told me. “We have a two-speed student population.”

This prof is in power to do something about this by redesigning his tests, for the sake of the kids he “feel(s) for.” But methinks he will not, and is therefore a schmuck.

He says he wants to assess how quickly students can answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Both would likely have not been admitted to the Ivy without the extra time; both took the place of someone more deserving, given that admissions is a zero sum game. These two kids would do just fine at a good college; but they are not Ivy material, nor do they have a right to an elite education.

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile I am over here with a kid with actual autism and severely poor fine motor skills, and I try to reduce the number of accommodations he gets so he can be challenged and learn time management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Collar, the University of Chicago physics professor, said that part of what his exams are designed to assess is the ability to solve problems in a certain amount of time. But now many of his students are in a separate room, with time and a half or even double the allotted time to complete the test. “I feel for the students who are not taking advantage of this,” he told me. “We have a two-speed student population.”

This prof is in power to do something about this by redesigning his tests, for the sake of the kids he “feel(s) for.” But methinks he will not, and is therefore a schmuck.

He says he wants to assess how quickly students can answer.

Yeah, and…screw 1/2 the class? Schmuck.

[Anonymous]

What I haven’t seen in all of this is a solution.

Give everyone the accommodation and take away the shitty time pressure?

It doesn’t seem likely we’re going to see a bunch of institutions saying that accommodations aren’t going to be applied to test-taking or contesting even the most obviously fake cases.

So what do we do? Every test is take-home, 24 hours, with word limits and access to the Internet and other students is built in to the test design?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this play out with 3 kids who went through a local top private school. The third is currently a senior.

The school is very rigorous: lots of homework, grade deflation.

The top 20% of the class doesn't have accommodations. They are really, really bright kids. They can keep up with the work, even when it gets more challenging and despite taking the most rigorous classes.

The kids beneath this start to struggle in high school, especially in 10th grade and up. They can't keep up with the top achievers, they start getting more B+s, they drown under the homework, they're not happy. Then BAM: The college admissions process starts and their parents have their first look at what their kid's college prospects are, given their grades. Panic ensues and these kids get taken to a psychologist for an evaluation and end up with extra time for "anxiety." And yes, they are genuinely anxious because they're way in over the heads at school and have parents who have unrealistic expectations. And COLLEGE STRESS LOOMS.

Some of this cohort will end up getting extra time with the College Board for the SAT, etc. Some will not. All will try.

However, in the end, the top 20% will get the Ivy spots and this next cohort will end up at schools in the next few deciles because ultimately, all this intervention in 10th or 11th grade is too little, too late.

I have seen this exact process happen with 3 kids over the span of 8 years. Probably a dozen kids each time.

I've seen this happen a lot too, especially in wealthy families, however I disagree that kids with accommodations are somehow outside of the top 20%. When you see Stanford reporting 38% with disabilities, you know a fair number of them had extra time on their tests and were awarded with admission to Stanford.

Yeah, the PP’s anecdote is off base. Ivy schools and top 10 schools, per the article, are reporting anywhere from 20-40% of their student body have accommodations for “disabilities” so obviously they are getting in

Students get those order to get AC or their own rooms once they are there. My son’s dorm mate wanted a single sophomore year and dad is a doctor…bingo.

What is the disability that gets a student into a single room? Social anxiety?

I don't know officially. But I have allergies/asthma and while I did not have a doctors note, I wrote on my housing form that my allergy demands would make me a PITA roommate and that they should spare anyone having to live with me and my hepa filter, humidifier, no carpet, and need to live in a fragrance free environment. I did not want to have to ask a roommate to use fragrance free shampoo, for example. So I requested a single, more for the sake of any potential roommate than myself. I knew I'd be annoying to live with. This informal request worked for me during undergrad, study abroad, and grad school housing selections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I haven’t seen in all of this is a solution.

Give everyone the accommodation and take away the shitty time pressure?

It doesn’t seem likely we’re going to see a bunch of institutions saying that accommodations aren’t going to be applied to test-taking or contesting even the most obviously fake cases.

So what do we do? Every test is take-home, 24 hours, with word limits and access to the Internet and other students is built in to the test design?

I posted above about my carpal tunnel syndrome. I realized in law school that what I really should have done when applying is look for a law school that had a good honor code and lots of take home exams. Most UVA and Harvard exams were take home, is my understanding, back then anyway.

But yeah, what you speak to is universal design. Take architecture related disability accessibility. They work best when they are available to all. Like, a ramp or elevator that anyone can use versus some dinky little chair lift that is broken half the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will no longer subscribe to the Atlantic or even add traffic to their site, but I can imagine what the rest of the article is like. You know what the solution is to this 'problem'? Give everyone extra time - it is ridiculous, particularly at the college level, to think one person is smarter or better educated or better prepared because it takes them less time to solve a problem or write an essay than the next person.

I would never want to hire anyone who has been given extra time to do assignments all their lives. That's just not the way the world works. But if you want your kid unprepared for real life, go for it.

And that's exactly why it's not disclosed, and you, as an employer, will never know who did or did not get extended time.

So are you saying they can actually manage deadlines suddenly when they start working? Why weren't they doing that before if they can actually do it?

It’s almost like 45 minute, timed, closed book exams don’t remotely reflect the vast majority of working environments.

They actually do because you need to think on your feet and may be called on at any time to speak in a meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I haven’t seen in all of this is a solution.

Give everyone the accommodation and take away the shitty time pressure?

It doesn’t seem likely we’re going to see a bunch of institutions saying that accommodations aren’t going to be applied to test-taking or contesting even the most obviously fake cases.

So what do we do? Every test is take-home, 24 hours, with word limits and access to the Internet and other students is built in to the test design?

I would build in an extra 30 minutes for everyone into every exam. Write a math exam that should take a typically prepared student 60 minutes to complete and give everyone 90 minutes and the extra time kids 90x1.5 or 90x2.

The grievance that private school kids have with the extra-time abusers is that they use their extra time to check their work. They do the test in 60 minutes and then spend the second 60 minutes checking all the problems. Allowing everyone to have 30 extra minutes would level this playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: So what do we do? Every test is take-home, 24 hours, with word limits and access to the Internet and other students is built in to the test design?

It's called universal design and is something disability advocates have been seeking for decades. Yes. You design assessments (and everything) to remove as many needless barriers as possible to promote universal access. There are multiple ways to accomplish this. You could do a 24-hour take-home. You can do an exam designed to be finished in 2 hours but give everyone 4 hours. You can do a capstone paper project. There are so many options.