NYT article on men struggling with their place in society

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

Many women are too busy just keeping their heads above water taking care of the kids, house, and working FT to start their own company without support from her husband.

Men tend to focus on themselves and their career; women tend to focus their family, and their job, let alone on themselves or starting a company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, not sure if you remember this but prior to 2020 white women had the same attitudes towards BIPOC and especially WOC.

Talk to any WOC and they’ll have stories about the time a white woman did something racist, and when called out, cried or otherwise had a meltdown to flip the situation and make it all about comforting them.

I was in the yoga scene for 20 years and appropriation was especially bad. Nobody would hire a South Asian instructor who had been practicing since childhood; it was all about the young, blonde, gorgeous women who were mostly former dancers. And if you pointed out that perhaps we should hire South Asian yoga teachers to close the wage gap between them and the blondes, there were the same arguments used in the gender wage gap of “they don’t bring in as much revenue” or “they don’t teach as well” or “we hire based on merit”.

Things started to change after the murder of George Floyd, when it became in vogue for white women to “do the work” and become anti-racist. Not because of what POC had been saying for decades, but because other white women were doing it, and it gave them a way to prove they weren’t racist to other white people. I saw yoga teachers hire anti-racism coaches for themselves and rebrand rather than switching to teaching Pilates or general fitness.

And watch the responses this post gets. You’ll see women go “no, that’s not true, I’m not racist, it’s okay for white people to teach yoga, you can’t even do yoga without someone getting upset….” Which is fine, but that’s the same things these men are saying. “I’m not sexist, I’m not a bad guy, I care about women, you can’t even give a compliment without someone getting upset….”

This isn’t to just slam on white women. I am one. But it’s to point out that society has changed rapidly the last few decades, and people haven’t yet developed the skills to navigate these new expectations, probably including you too, so perhaps some grace is in order. I’m white, H is BIPOC, we have 1 (possibly 2) LGBTQ+ kids, and H and I have both had to learn new ways of operating. He did misogynistic things, I did racist things, we both did homophobic things. Maybe not big things, but still things. And re-learning new ways of thinking and acting is HARD, and we both still make mistakes, but over time it gets better.

I find the cheery blonde who grow up rich enough to take tons of dance classes just for fun bring great energy to the table. It’s really not about competency in yoga, it’s that attitude from upper middle “main stream” class that people pay to be around.

ew.. implicit racism and classism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break. Men run every aspect of our government. There has never been a woman President, men are and always have been the majority in Congress and the Supreme Court. The majority of Governors and State legislators are men. The majority of CEOs are men. Again, give me a break.

Oh, you again.

dp.. but what ^PP stated is true.

[Anonymous]

This. Either a clueless man wrote this (most likely) or it is written by someone with no experience with having a high powered job or a spouse with one. Something has got to give if you have kids. I live in a very expensive area here with tons of big law, CEOs, finance, etc. There are a lot of SAHM parents or one parent that took the “backseat” with regards to career. I know at least 3 stay at home dads. Usually, it’s the man that gets to pursue his work ambitions, but not always.

[Anonymous]

Who encourages this gender divide? Men are our literal partners and almost half the population.

Who benefits from this divisiveness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This. Either a clueless man wrote this (most likely) or it is written by someone with no experience with having a high powered job or a spouse with one. Something has got to give if you have kids. I live in a very expensive area here with tons of big law, CEOs, finance, etc. There are a lot of SAHM parents or one parent that took the “backseat” with regards to career. I know at least 3 stay at home dads. Usually, it’s the man that gets to pursue his work ambitions, but not always.

By mutual choice. Women generally don't want those jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, not sure if you remember this but prior to 2020 white women had the same attitudes towards BIPOC and especially WOC.

Talk to any WOC and they’ll have stories about the time a white woman did something racist, and when called out, cried or otherwise had a meltdown to flip the situation and make it all about comforting them.

I was in the yoga scene for 20 years and appropriation was especially bad. Nobody would hire a South Asian instructor who had been practicing since childhood; it was all about the young, blonde, gorgeous women who were mostly former dancers. And if you pointed out that perhaps we should hire South Asian yoga teachers to close the wage gap between them and the blondes, there were the same arguments used in the gender wage gap of “they don’t bring in as much revenue” or “they don’t teach as well” or “we hire based on merit”.

Things started to change after the murder of George Floyd, when it became in vogue for white women to “do the work” and become anti-racist. Not because of what POC had been saying for decades, but because other white women were doing it, and it gave them a way to prove they weren’t racist to other white people. I saw yoga teachers hire anti-racism coaches for themselves and rebrand rather than switching to teaching Pilates or general fitness.

And watch the responses this post gets. You’ll see women go “no, that’s not true, I’m not racist, it’s okay for white people to teach yoga, you can’t even do yoga without someone getting upset….” Which is fine, but that’s the same things these men are saying. “I’m not sexist, I’m not a bad guy, I care about women, you can’t even give a compliment without someone getting upset….”

This isn’t to just slam on white women. I am one. But it’s to point out that society has changed rapidly the last few decades, and people haven’t yet developed the skills to navigate these new expectations, probably including you too, so perhaps some grace is in order. I’m white, H is BIPOC, we have 1 (possibly 2) LGBTQ+ kids, and H and I have both had to learn new ways of operating. He did misogynistic things, I did racist things, we both did homophobic things. Maybe not big things, but still things. And re-learning new ways of thinking and acting is HARD, and we both still make mistakes, but over time it gets better.

I find the cheery blonde who grow up rich enough to take tons of dance classes just for fun bring great energy to the table. It’s really not about competency in yoga, it’s that attitude from upper middle “main stream” class that people pay to be around.

ew.. implicit racism and classism.

I am not paying $34 to sit in a yoga studio with a John Hopskins MD 🤷‍♀️ they can have blue skin and be wealthy or poor, they don’t bring good vibes to a fitness class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

Feel free to move to Japan or Korea with birth rate of 1 or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who encourages this gender divide? Men are our literal partners and almost half the population.

Who benefits from this divisiveness?

Seriously. Any woman who has a child needs a man’s involvement even if she derisively calls her child’s father a sperm donor. That woman has a 50% chance of having a boy and (gasp) being a boy mom.

Any dad who has a child needs a woman and has a 50% chance of having a daughter and being a girl dad.

All of us have within us the DNA of a man and a woman.

We should all an invested in the physical and mental health of boys and girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to speak specifically to the door holding thing:

20 years ago I was an intern in the US Senate and gave constituent tours. In between making up facts about the capitol building, I had to usher people through doors that required a badge swipe to access. Standard procedure was: I swipe my badge, open door, hold it as they all walk through, I close door and secure it.

This would *break* some of the men on my tours. Especially older men, but young ones too. They couldn't handle having a 20 yr old woman hold a door open for them. Some of them would try to forcibly take the door from me. Most would just stand there, waiting for me to go through the door before them. I would explain i had to go through last. They would persist, say things like "I wasn't raised that way."

It was a small inconvenience but it was also deranged and really stuck with me. Perhaps they just struggled with a rule that had always been drilled into them (ladies first). Or perhaps the role reversal felt like a loss of status and control.

But that's what I thought about when I read the thing about these men feeling like women didn't want them to hold open doors for them.

Only crazy progressive women get upset about men holding the doors for them.

It was quite literally her job to hold the door, close it, and lock it after everybody.

Are you insane?

I'm not responding to her situation directly. I'm just saying, any woman who gets upset about a man holding the door for her is weird.

Its weird when they make it weird, which some men do. If you're ahead of me and hold the door, thanks. If you're behind me and leap ahead of me and make a big show of it...WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, not sure if you remember this but prior to 2020 white women had the same attitudes towards BIPOC and especially WOC.

Talk to any WOC and they’ll have stories about the time a white woman did something racist, and when called out, cried or otherwise had a meltdown to flip the situation and make it all about comforting them.

I was in the yoga scene for 20 years and appropriation was especially bad. Nobody would hire a South Asian instructor who had been practicing since childhood; it was all about the young, blonde, gorgeous women who were mostly former dancers. And if you pointed out that perhaps we should hire South Asian yoga teachers to close the wage gap between them and the blondes, there were the same arguments used in the gender wage gap of “they don’t bring in as much revenue” or “they don’t teach as well” or “we hire based on merit”.

Things started to change after the murder of George Floyd, when it became in vogue for white women to “do the work” and become anti-racist. Not because of what POC had been saying for decades, but because other white women were doing it, and it gave them a way to prove they weren’t racist to other white people. I saw yoga teachers hire anti-racism coaches for themselves and rebrand rather than switching to teaching Pilates or general fitness.

And watch the responses this post gets. You’ll see women go “no, that’s not true, I’m not racist, it’s okay for white people to teach yoga, you can’t even do yoga without someone getting upset….” Which is fine, but that’s the same things these men are saying. “I’m not sexist, I’m not a bad guy, I care about women, you can’t even give a compliment without someone getting upset….”

This isn’t to just slam on white women. I am one. But it’s to point out that society has changed rapidly the last few decades, and people haven’t yet developed the skills to navigate these new expectations, probably including you too, so perhaps some grace is in order. I’m white, H is BIPOC, we have 1 (possibly 2) LGBTQ+ kids, and H and I have both had to learn new ways of operating. He did misogynistic things, I did racist things, we both did homophobic things. Maybe not big things, but still things. And re-learning new ways of thinking and acting is HARD, and we both still make mistakes, but over time it gets better.

I find the cheery blonde who grow up rich enough to take tons of dance classes just for fun bring great energy to the table. It’s really not about competency in yoga, it’s that attitude from upper middle “main stream” class that people pay to be around.

ew.. implicit racism and classism.

I am not paying $34 to sit in a yoga studio with a John Hopskins MD 🤷‍♀️ they can have blue skin and be wealthy or poor, they don’t bring good vibes to a fitness class.

ew.. implicit racism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to speak specifically to the door holding thing:

20 years ago I was an intern in the US Senate and gave constituent tours. In between making up facts about the capitol building, I had to usher people through doors that required a badge swipe to access. Standard procedure was: I swipe my badge, open door, hold it as they all walk through, I close door and secure it.

This would *break* some of the men on my tours. Especially older men, but young ones too. They couldn't handle having a 20 yr old woman hold a door open for them. Some of them would try to forcibly take the door from me. Most would just stand there, waiting for me to go through the door before them. I would explain i had to go through last. They would persist, say things like "I wasn't raised that way."

It was a small inconvenience but it was also deranged and really stuck with me. Perhaps they just struggled with a rule that had always been drilled into them (ladies first). Or perhaps the role reversal felt like a loss of status and control.

But that's what I thought about when I read the thing about these men feeling like women didn't want them to hold open doors for them.

Only crazy progressive women get upset about men holding the doors for them.

eh.. I'm a moderate feminist, and I see that as a man trying to be gentlemanly. I don't see anything wrong with that. How old are you? I feel like this might be an age thing. I'm 54, and see nothing wrong with that.

It was quite literally her job to hold the door, close it, and lock it after everybody.

Are you insane?

I'm not responding to her situation directly. I'm just saying, any woman who gets upset about a man holding the door for her is weird.

Its weird when they make it weird, which some men do. If you're ahead of me and hold the door, thanks. If you're behind me and leap ahead of me and make a big show of it...WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they suddenly are experiencing a lack of sea parting for straight men in society and are having breakdowns and being crybabies. Mad because society has started to value competence and excellence over gender/race/physical appearance/stereotypes of what kind of people should be in what roles in society.

How old are you? Just curious.

Old enough to remember when stereotypes held women and minorities back from certain careers, leadership roles, etc. Young enough to appreciate society's evolution.

Ah. At first I thought you were 20. Now I see that you are 80. Well, glad you have men all figured out. You should go tell them, straighten them out. Since some of them seem to be struggling.

Why get in the way of karmic retribution?

Because the men who are struggling now aren’t necessarily the men who were the problem in 1900-2010 when they either children or not yet born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to speak specifically to the door holding thing:

20 years ago I was an intern in the US Senate and gave constituent tours. In between making up facts about the capitol building, I had to usher people through doors that required a badge swipe to access. Standard procedure was: I swipe my badge, open door, hold it as they all walk through, I close door and secure it.

This would *break* some of the men on my tours. Especially older men, but young ones too. They couldn't handle having a 20 yr old woman hold a door open for them. Some of them would try to forcibly take the door from me. Most would just stand there, waiting for me to go through the door before them. I would explain i had to go through last. They would persist, say things like "I wasn't raised that way."

It was a small inconvenience but it was also deranged and really stuck with me. Perhaps they just struggled with a rule that had always been drilled into them (ladies first). Or perhaps the role reversal felt like a loss of status and control.

But that's what I thought about when I read the thing about these men feeling like women didn't want them to hold open doors for them.

Only crazy progressive women get upset about men holding the doors for them.

It was quite literally her job to hold the door, close it, and lock it after everybody.

Are you insane?

I'm not responding to her situation directly. I'm just saying, any woman who gets upset about a man holding the door for her is weird.

Its weird when they make it weird, which some men do. If you're ahead of me and hold the door, thanks. If you're behind me and leap ahead of me and make a big show of it...WTF?

It's a culture clash of differing expectations. Like people who stand on the escalator on the left. Some people get upset about it?!?!?

Same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they suddenly are experiencing a lack of sea parting for straight men in society and are having breakdowns and being crybabies. Mad because society has started to value competence and excellence over gender/race/physical appearance/stereotypes of what kind of people should be in what roles in society.

How old are you? Just curious.

Old enough to remember when stereotypes held women and minorities back from certain careers, leadership roles, etc. Young enough to appreciate society's evolution.

Ah. At first I thought you were 20. Now I see that you are 80. Well, glad you have men all figured out. You should go tell them, straighten them out. Since some of them seem to be struggling.

Why get in the way of karmic retribution?

Because the men who are struggling now aren’t necessarily the men who were the problem in 1900-2010 when they either children or not yet born.

This only makes sense to people who have a brain in their head.