NYT article on men struggling with their place in society

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

They are. In 2021, 49% of new companies were started by women.

Which is sad. Women are less entrepreneurial than men. So that means that there were fewer new companies started in 2021.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, not sure if you remember this but prior to 2020 white women had the same attitudes towards BIPOC and especially WOC.

Talk to any WOC and they’ll have stories about the time a white woman did something racist, and when called out, cried or otherwise had a meltdown to flip the situation and make it all about comforting them.

I was in the yoga scene for 20 years and appropriation was especially bad. Nobody would hire a South Asian instructor who had been practicing since childhood; it was all about the young, blonde, gorgeous women who were mostly former dancers. And if you pointed out that perhaps we should hire South Asian yoga teachers to close the wage gap between them and the blondes, there were the same arguments used in the gender wage gap of “they don’t bring in as much revenue” or “they don’t teach as well” or “we hire based on merit”.

Things started to change after the murder of George Floyd, when it became in vogue for white women to “do the work” and become anti-racist. Not because of what POC had been saying for decades, but because other white women were doing it, and it gave them a way to prove they weren’t racist to other white people. I saw yoga teachers hire anti-racism coaches for themselves and rebrand rather than switching to teaching Pilates or general fitness.

And watch the responses this post gets. You’ll see women go “no, that’s not true, I’m not racist, it’s okay for white people to teach yoga, you can’t even do yoga without someone getting upset….” Which is fine, but that’s the same things these men are saying. “I’m not sexist, I’m not a bad guy, I care about women, you can’t even give a compliment without someone getting upset….”

This isn’t to just slam on white women. I am one. But it’s to point out that society has changed rapidly the last few decades, and people haven’t yet developed the skills to navigate these new expectations, probably including you too, so perhaps some grace is in order. I’m white, H is BIPOC, we have 1 (possibly 2) LGBTQ+ kids, and H and I have both had to learn new ways of operating. He did misogynistic things, I did racist things, we both did homophobic things. Maybe not big things, but still things. And re-learning new ways of thinking and acting is HARD, and we both still make mistakes, but over time it gets better.

This comment is weird. Most yoga studios are super crunchy and would happily hire a South Asian woman with lifelong experience and cultural ties to the practice over a bubbly blonde lady. The bubbly blonde ladies mostly teach pilates, Barre, or orange theory type classes, you don't find as many of them teaching yoga, which is not a "bubbly" discipline. There are white women teaching yoga, but as a veteran of many yoga studios, there does not appear to be any preference for them over WOC, and especially not a South Asian woman with a cultural connection to the practice. My impression is that there are a lot of white women teaching yoga because there are a lot of white women taking yoga.

I also remember the conversation around "white women's tears" after George Floyd snd I do think it was useful. I know it made me think about whether and how I might use vulnerability to escape responsibility. It's worth discussing.

But I also remember how rapidly the conversation about how white women benefit from white supremacy, and how they can do better, was rapidly coopted by white men who gleefully started calling white women they found too loud, middle aged, and unappealing "Karens" and started using that conversation to silence white women who have valid perspectives or who have been hurt or discriminated against. It became another way to silence and ignore women. Conveniently, as the MeToo movement had been gaining steam.

PP. I don’t really want to argue about yoga - I’ve been involved in the yoga scene for over 20 years, I’ve worked for several large yoga companies, and I dated a well-known instructor. There’s definitely always been a bias up until recently.

But your comment proves my point. When it comes to men, everyone groups them together and says they’re whining, mad, sad, flawed, and at fault.

Then when it comes to women, people expect nuance. Not all yoga studios are that way, only some. Yes, maybe white women do some things wrong, but then men came in and called them Karen’s to silence them. White women dominate a field (yoga) because white women are the ones who want to be in that field (which is no different than saying men dominate tech/C suite/etc because it’s primarily men who want to be in those fields).

Men ought to be extended the same nuance. Yes, some men are POS like some women are. But most are probably navigating the same challenges we all do, and it’s not fair to group them all as “they’re just upset they’re not on top anymore”.

I agree with you, but as POC, I think all white people think they deserve nuance while lumping everyone else into racial groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, not sure if you remember this but prior to 2020 white women had the same attitudes towards BIPOC and especially WOC.

Talk to any WOC and they’ll have stories about the time a white woman did something racist, and when called out, cried or otherwise had a meltdown to flip the situation and make it all about comforting them.

I was in the yoga scene for 20 years and appropriation was especially bad. Nobody would hire a South Asian instructor who had been practicing since childhood; it was all about the young, blonde, gorgeous women who were mostly former dancers. And if you pointed out that perhaps we should hire South Asian yoga teachers to close the wage gap between them and the blondes, there were the same arguments used in the gender wage gap of “they don’t bring in as much revenue” or “they don’t teach as well” or “we hire based on merit”.

Things started to change after the murder of George Floyd, when it became in vogue for white women to “do the work” and become anti-racist. Not because of what POC had been saying for decades, but because other white women were doing it, and it gave them a way to prove they weren’t racist to other white people. I saw yoga teachers hire anti-racism coaches for themselves and rebrand rather than switching to teaching Pilates or general fitness.

And watch the responses this post gets. You’ll see women go “no, that’s not true, I’m not racist, it’s okay for white people to teach yoga, you can’t even do yoga without someone getting upset….” Which is fine, but that’s the same things these men are saying. “I’m not sexist, I’m not a bad guy, I care about women, you can’t even give a compliment without someone getting upset….”

This isn’t to just slam on white women. I am one. But it’s to point out that society has changed rapidly the last few decades, and people haven’t yet developed the skills to navigate these new expectations, probably including you too, so perhaps some grace is in order. I’m white, H is BIPOC, we have 1 (possibly 2) LGBTQ+ kids, and H and I have both had to learn new ways of operating. He did misogynistic things, I did racist things, we both did homophobic things. Maybe not big things, but still things. And re-learning new ways of thinking and acting is HARD, and we both still make mistakes, but over time it gets better.

This comment is weird. Most yoga studios are super crunchy and would happily hire a South Asian woman with lifelong experience and cultural ties to the practice over a bubbly blonde lady. The bubbly blonde ladies mostly teach pilates, Barre, or orange theory type classes, you don't find as many of them teaching yoga, which is not a "bubbly" discipline. There are white women teaching yoga, but as a veteran of many yoga studios, there does not appear to be any preference for them over WOC, and especially not a South Asian woman with a cultural connection to the practice. My impression is that there are a lot of white women teaching yoga because there are a lot of white women taking yoga.

I also remember the conversation around "white women's tears" after George Floyd snd I do think it was useful. I know it made me think about whether and how I might use vulnerability to escape responsibility. It's worth discussing.

But I also remember how rapidly the conversation about how white women benefit from white supremacy, and how they can do better, was rapidly coopted by white men who gleefully started calling white women they found too loud, middle aged, and unappealing "Karens" and started using that conversation to silence white women who have valid perspectives or who have been hurt or discriminated against. It became another way to silence and ignore women. Conveniently, as the MeToo movement had been gaining steam.

PP. I don’t really want to argue about yoga - I’ve been involved in the yoga scene for over 20 years, I’ve worked for several large yoga companies, and I dated a well-known instructor. There’s definitely always been a bias up until recently.

But your comment proves my point. When it comes to men, everyone groups them together and says they’re whining, mad, sad, flawed, and at fault.

Then when it comes to women, people expect nuance. Not all yoga studios are that way, only some. Yes, maybe white women do some things wrong, but then men came in and called them Karen’s to silence them. White women dominate a field (yoga) because white women are the ones who want to be in that field (which is no different than saying men dominate tech/C suite/etc because it’s primarily men who want to be in those fields).

Men ought to be extended the same nuance. Yes, some men are POS like some women are. But most are probably navigating the same challenges we all do, and it’s not fair to group them all as “they’re just upset they’re not on top anymore”.

I agree with you, but as POC, I think all white people think they deserve nuance while lumping everyone else into racial groups.

And yet you just lumped yourself into a group that’s only defined by what it is not…. POC = not white. Good job reinforcing the idea that white is the default, I guess?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

Perfect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the mom of 2 teens of each gender, I am often able to find MORE opportunities for my girl than boy from Girls on the Run, coding for girls, cooking for girls and just a whole lot of new programs specifically aimed for girls I mean even Boy Scouts take girls now! Hah.

So yeah, on some level, I do get the feeling that as women have gained in education, rights and financially, men may feel like they see less of men and get confused why so many women are around.

I been in terms of nature, women are much stronger mentally and emotionally than men all things being equal - I feel like society norms are changing. Many more stay at home dads and women as breadwinners of the family now. I'm not surprised to see news of more men espp op less educated or integrated, feel troubled by their place in society. You see female characters' strength and opportunity to be and do anything in movies and it reflects reality.

Boys have the same opportunities.

It’s called running, coding, and cooking. You realize that right?

Also football, baseball, hockey, wrestling, hunting, cycling, weightlifting. On and on and on

They don’t have to put for boys on the name because we just know … it’s for boys.

Just like cheerleading is not girls cheerleading,

Boys are welcome on most cheerleading teams. Boys are the ones who need to step out and expand interests. Is that PP really saying that found a kids' cooking class that would only accept girls and not boys? In 2025? I don't believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

Nothing in my post suggested abdicating responsibility. Your post is an example of the gaslighting I was talking about, though. (The quotes around “his child” … it’s not “his child”, it’s his child.)

Don’t knock up a woman who is intelligent and perceptive enough to understand her worth. That’s a choice you can make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

Nothing in my post suggested abdicating responsibility. Your post is an example of the gaslighting I was talking about, though. (The quotes around “his child” … it’s not “his child”, it’s his child.)

Don’t knock up a woman who is intelligent and perceptive enough to understand her worth. That’s a choice you can make.

In another post you will be telling us about how a woman's worth should not be reduced to her womb lol.

Sorry, but people are seeing through your gaslighting now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

Nothing in my post suggested abdicating responsibility. Your post is an example of the gaslighting I was talking about, though. (The quotes around “his child” … it’s not “his child”, it’s his child.)

Don’t knock up a woman who is intelligent and perceptive enough to understand her worth. That’s a choice you can make.

I can't with these deadbeats who don't want to take care of a child they fathered.

Yes, yes, the father of the kid must be the "victim" in this scenario

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

Nothing in my post suggested abdicating responsibility. Your post is an example of the gaslighting I was talking about, though. (The quotes around “his child” … it’s not “his child”, it’s his child.)

Don’t knock up a woman who is intelligent and perceptive enough to understand her worth. That’s a choice you can make.

In another post you will be telling us about how a woman's worth should not be reduced to her womb lol.

Sorry, but people are seeing through your gaslighting now.

Forget the woman. It's your kid. That's the responsibility you get when you decide to have fun with a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

Nothing in my post suggested abdicating responsibility. Your post is an example of the gaslighting I was talking about, though. (The quotes around “his child” … it’s not “his child”, it’s his child.)

Don’t knock up a woman who is intelligent and perceptive enough to understand her worth. That’s a choice you can make.

In another post you will be telling us about how a woman's worth should not be reduced to her womb lol.

Sorry, but people are seeing through your gaslighting now.

Forget the woman. It's your kid. That's the responsibility you get when you decide to have fun with a woman.

You are missing the point. Of course men should take care of their children. Just don't act like a big bad boss or CEO, if you aren't prepared to fully own the consequences of everything that derives from your "choice". It's not behavior that commands respect. Women enjoy picking and choosing and toggling between empowered and infantilized as it suits them, and that act is wearing thin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise. Another man bashing thread on DCUM. Nurse Ratched army loves to brigade around here.

White women are the worst. They love to double dip - they get their white privilege AND get to try to leverage all the gender oppression Olympics in their favor. They’re often the most cringeworthy.

70%+ of c suite jobs are men.

Not sure which Olympics your watching.

Women should start their own companies then rather than cry about it. Many studies have shown that men are more willing to take bigger risks than women. Women cannot be risk adverse, then cry later on when they're not on charge because they didn't want to take the risk starting businesses. Women always want everyone else to do the heavy lifting for them, then come in and take over control. Ha, that's not the way the world works. Put up or shut up. Why don't you put your home and all do your life's savings on the line to start a business if you want to be CEO so much?

I’m a woman, and I mostly agree with this. I remember reading a post on here years ago when someone mentioned women/minorities/etc. “just wanting a seat at the table” and a woman said something along the lines of “build your own table”.

That being said, whenever men start talking about how women don’t want “real equality” I would like to remind them (and women) about something called opportunity cost. Particularly when it comes to reproduction. Our wombs are worth a hell of a lot more than your sperm, so women should be mindful of that and not allow some man to gaslight her into thinking he doesn’t owe her (for lack of a better term) for carrying, birthing, and raising his child. This is the area in which you find men wanting women to do the heavy lifting for them but then whine about “equality” when they have to pay child support or alimony…

It's always "my body, my choice" and reproductive autonomy for women until it comes time to deal with the consequences, and then it's "his child" for which she is owed a debt. This is exactly what PP is talking about. You want to be in control and take charge of decisions (i.e. be the CEO), but when it comes time to deal with the aftermath it's "his child" or "society's child", not even "our child". I don't even disagree with you about the value of a womb/sperm, but this type of language and thought pattern abdicating responsibility for choices made is all too common for women these days, despite their expressed desire for increasingly more autonomy.

Nothing in my post suggested abdicating responsibility. Your post is an example of the gaslighting I was talking about, though. (The quotes around “his child” … it’s not “his child”, it’s his child.)

Don’t knock up a woman who is intelligent and perceptive enough to understand her worth. That’s a choice you can make.

In another post you will be telling us about how a woman's worth should not be reduced to her womb lol.

Sorry, but people are seeing through your gaslighting now.

Forget the woman. It's your kid. That's the responsibility you get when you decide to have fun with a woman.

You are missing the point. Of course men should take care of their children. Just don't act like a big bad boss or CEO, if you aren't prepared to fully own the consequences of everything that derives from your "choice". It's not behavior that commands respect. Women enjoy picking and choosing and toggling between empowered and infantilized as it suits them, and that act is wearing thin.

Huh?

Care to elaborate...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thread on this has been eye-opening.

I'm beginning to see how Trump won. He's a voice for the marginalized and straight white dudes now see themselves that way due to overzealous DEI practices.

I find some DEI practices a bit too restrictive. We had a female employee give notice and to maintain a "good ratio" on our team, my supervisor said the new hire had to be a woman. So boobs > qualifications, cool.

I think it's situations like this, which happen, that have created a narrative for some portion of the population that white men (and sometimes white women too) are victims.

In many parts of life - working class jobs, college admissions, professional jobs - we have been told out loud that white people's piece of the pie needs to be smaller in whatever way we can make it happen. This is because their piece of the pie was way too big. But the white people alive right this minute in this time, they FEEL and they PERCEIVE that they are being squeezed out. And isn't life all about perceptions? They perceive their piece of the pie is shrinking (and maybe it is) and there is the same number of them and they're scrambling for someone to blame and an answer and a way to keep the piece of the pie for themselves and most importantly, their children.

I think this is important to talk about if we want to understand the rise of Trump. Dismissing it as "insane" is at our own peril.

First of all, the idea of limited resources is a fallacy.

Also, if you only feel comfortable discussing things with the concept that there are limited resources than the people, you should have a problem with other people that eat so much pie they are throwing up and have to give it to Africa because they have so much… billionaires.

Not getting it. It’s how people feel and what they see in their own lives. I got into Ivy school and my white kid cant. I’m up for promotion or prestigious thing and it never goes to a white person. People are telling you this in this thread and then the response is oh you’re wrong. Then people feel gaslit and they’re pissed.

Black people are not gatekeeping your child’s ability to get into an Ivy League school.

You realize that’s athletes and children of billionaires.

We are not gaslighting you we are telling you facts. The fact is your white male child did not get into an Ivy League school because an Asian, a white athlete, and a rich kid got ahead of him.

If you wanted him to get in, you should’ve done better and bought a building for the school.

NP: no, now you really are gaslighting, PP.

Look: we all know for the majority of the US’s history, it was impossible or nearly so, for a Black person to get into many universities other than HBCUs (which why HBCUs even exist, as we all know).

But you are gaslighting when you try to deny that colleges are often reluctant to admit equally-qualified white applicants and businesses are reluctant to hire many, if any, white applicants.

It’s racism and it’s real. If you need to, call it “reverse racism.” Or call it discrimination or race-based discrimination, if it makes you feel better. But the fact remains:

- racism is real. Stop defending racism.

Both of my white boys have gotten into multiple colleges and gotten prestigious internships and jobs in the last 4 years. I’m just not seeing it. Have they gotten into every college or gotten an offer for every single job or internship? No.

This entire situation is built on how people raise their kids. A lot of parents hold their boys and girls to different standards. The girls are pushed hard academically and behaviorally and boys are given passes and excuses and it shows into adulthood.

Have higher standards for boy kids. That's where all this starts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is that this was actually a real opportunity to discuss what men struggle with. We could discuss how boys in schools need more movement, that there needs to be a better pipeline to jobs like teaching, nursing, the arts, etc. There needs to be a discussion that eventually we need a larger population of dads staying home with their children in addition of moms. We need to discuss how to be what was historically considered "masculine" without being a mouth breather heathen. There were so many things they could have talked about.

But they talked about where you get your news, and do you have women friends, and where do your women friends get their news.

There was a tiny bit at the end where they bemoan women not being interested in them because they are not tall and rich, which is odd, isn't Republican philosophy "work harder if your not getting ahead" (a head - pun intended).

One guy talked about his generation does not know how to make friend... that is the content that would have been of value.

DP. We are getting to the end of gentle parenting. Maybe we are ready to get to the end of eradicating masculinity, too. As a culture, we have tried to dismantle masculinity and femininity. And as a result, a lot of people are confused and unhappy.

We don't need to cater to children more, we need to expect and require more from them. We don't need to cater to men or women, we need to expect more from them.

ACTUALLY our standards for children are higher than they are for adults. We dont cater to children. We cater to adults who cant handle parenting children or being told no or being told there is something they need to fix- there is a distinct difference. Children model what they see adults do. If adults are always on devices, they expect to be on devices. If adults trash talk other people and say unkind words and denigrate entire swaths of society....well, you get a$$hole kids just like their parents. We also dont have a child-friendly society even though all the data points to the first 5 years as the most important developmentally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is that this was actually a real opportunity to discuss what men struggle with. We could discuss how boys in schools need more movement, that there needs to be a better pipeline to jobs like teaching, nursing, the arts, etc. There needs to be a discussion that eventually we need a larger population of dads staying home with their children in addition of moms. We need to discuss how to be what was historically considered "masculine" without being a mouth breather heathen. There were so many things they could have talked about.

But they talked about where you get your news, and do you have women friends, and where do your women friends get their news.

There was a tiny bit at the end where they bemoan women not being interested in them because they are not tall and rich, which is odd, isn't Republican philosophy "work harder if your not getting ahead" (a head - pun intended).

One guy talked about his generation does not know how to make friend... that is the content that would have been of value.

DP. We are getting to the end of gentle parenting. Maybe we are ready to get to the end of eradicating masculinity, too. As a culture, we have tried to dismantle masculinity and femininity. And as a result, a lot of people are confused and unhappy.

We don't need to cater to children more, we need to expect and require more from them. We don't need to cater to men or women, we need to expect more from them.

ACTUALLY our standards for children are higher than they are for adults. We dont cater to children. We cater to adults who cant handle parenting children or being told no or being told there is something they need to fix- there is a distinct difference. Children model what they see adults do. If adults are always on devices, they expect to be on devices. If adults trash talk other people and say unkind words and denigrate entire swaths of society....well, you get a$$hole kids just like their parents. We also dont have a child-friendly society even though all the data points to the first 5 years as the most important developmentally.

Adding that if you compare the K standards in the 60-80s to today you would find that we are categorically expecting more and more from children and taking away play, which again, is how they learn and develop strong minds and bodies.