Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly concerned it doesn’t encourage learning.

Quite the opposite! It doesn't DIScourage learning. It encourages kids to keep doing better on the next test b/c if they do, they will get a bump up on the most recent previous test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grading isn’t equitable. The closer we can get to no grades the better.

Then no one will learn anything. Teachers won't teach anything and students won't do anything or learn anything.

Sounds progressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly concerned it doesn’t encourage learning.

Quite the opposite! It doesn't DIScourage learning. It encourages kids to keep doing better on the next test b/c if they do, they will get a bump up on the most recent previous test.

Look, we know that you are the poster we suspect of being admin or someone close to admin. Please just start your own pro-SBG at Madison thread and see if you get any posts/views besides your own.

[Anonymous]

That's to keep kids focused on looking forward rather than backward (at retakes) and making improvement -- and having that improvement paying off. That's a good incentive to keep working.

I talk to my kid and no one is doing the work anymore if it doesn't count. SBG encourages kids to slack off. I have talked to many Madison students and this is what they say. And all the kids fail the formative assessments on a regular basis. This is not fair to Madison students. We should not be using a system that is different from the rest of the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly concerned it doesn’t encourage learning.

Quite the opposite! It doesn't DIScourage learning. It encourages kids to keep doing better on the next test b/c if they do, they will get a bump up on the most recent previous test.

Look, we know that you are the poster we suspect of being admin or someone close to admin. Please just start your own pro-SBG at Madison thread and see if you get any posts/views besides your own.

Wrong. I guess it's beyond your brain-power that a parent with no other ties or connections to the school could have an opinion different from yours. You seem to think that there is only one right way to look at SBG...YOURS. Sad that you can't allow for diffetences of opinion. Step out of your bubble once in awhile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That's to keep kids focused on looking forward rather than backward (at retakes) and making improvement -- and having that improvement paying off. That's a good incentive to keep working.

I talk to my kid and no one is doing the work anymore if it doesn't count. SBG encourages kids to slack off. I have talked to many Madison students and this is what they say. And all the kids fail the formative assessments on a regular basis. This is not fair to Madison students. We should not be using a system that is different from the rest of the county.

If a student is passing the summative assessments, why do you care whether they took or passed the formative work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's to keep kids focused on looking forward rather than backward (at retakes) and making improvement -- and having that improvement paying off. That's a good incentive to keep working.

I talk to my kid and no one is doing the work anymore if it doesn't count. SBG encourages kids to slack off. I have talked to many Madison students and this is what they say. And all the kids fail the formative assessments on a regular basis. This is not fair to Madison students. We should not be using a system that is different from the rest of the county.

If a student is passing the summative assessments, why do you care whether they took or passed the formative work?

The summative assessments are the ones that get averaged and bumped up. Also, explain to me how bumping a 2nd quarter grade up based on a rise in a 3rd quarter grade demonstrates that the kid understands the content from the 2nd quarter. I have seen a 4th quarter test that was much easier than the 3rd quarter, so at this point, I am suspicious. This is not about learning at all but showing the upward trend admin wants to see. Since you're admin, tell me why this grading policy is just about making you look better.

[Anonymous]

When are final grades for seniors posted?

Dc’s college has a deadline of June 1 to review grades for updated merit awards. Gpa was headed toward the next level bump for merit but it’s not on the unofficial transcript yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly concerned it doesn’t encourage learning.

Quite the opposite! It doesn't DIScourage learning. It encourages kids to keep doing better on the next test b/c if they do, they will get a bump up on the most recent previous test.

Look, we know that you are the poster we suspect of being admin or someone close to admin. Please just start your own pro-SBG at Madison thread and see if you get any posts/views besides your own.

I am just a parent at Madison, and I tend to agree with PP. SBG has been fine. My kid is learning the material, he has to revisit it every unit, and his grades have not changed.

I AM the poster who asked earlier about grade inflation, and in the end, that is all I am seeing here...people mad that homework doesn't prop up a grade on a bad test anymore. The question remains: is your kid learning the material? If so, and most likely, why are you upset?

This nonsense that Madison students will have lower grades is just that-nonsense

I am not really seeing any legit arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly concerned it doesn’t encourage learning.

Quite the opposite! It doesn't DIScourage learning. It encourages kids to keep doing better on the next test b/c if they do, they will get a bump up on the most recent previous test.

Look, we know that you are the poster we suspect of being admin or someone close to admin. Please just start your own pro-SBG at Madison thread and see if you get any posts/views besides your own.

I am just a parent at Madison, and I tend to agree with PP. SBG has been fine. My kid is learning the material, he has to revisit it every unit, and his grades have not changed.

I AM the poster who asked earlier about grade inflation, and in the end, that is all I am seeing here...people mad that homework doesn't prop up a grade on a bad test anymore. The question remains: is your kid learning the material? If so, and most likely, why are you upset?

This nonsense that Madison students will have lower grades is just that-nonsense

I am not really seeing any legit arguments.

I am confused as to why you think it is nonsense that the kids have lower grades. Perhaps it has not happened to your kid, but others have been seeing this and the actual studies and stated goals of skills based grading show this is what happens. This is how you reduce inequality, you shrink the gap between the top and bottom performing students. I would love to see Madison publish the grades overall between this year and last year or pre-Covid. If they are roughly the same, I will stop questioning the policy. But that hasn’t happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is interesting is that IB schools can’t do this. They have to follow IB assessment policies.

This is why I’m so glad DD will be taking AP courses in most core subjects next year. Our experience this year was that, since the College Board determines the curriculum, DDs AP class was the one least impacted by the SBG mess.

.... Did you not know that AP exam scoring system is quintessentially SBG? AP scoring rubrics are based on the concept of SBG....

For example on free response questions where the question builds upon itself, you earn points for each step along the way even if the final answer is wrong. IB uses the same style of grading. Jesus, you AP boosters are clueless.

Not all AP classes grade on a skills based rubric. My class uses a rubric based on content. If they don't know the content, skills won't help them pass the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly concerned it doesn’t encourage learning.

Quite the opposite! It doesn't DIScourage learning. It encourages kids to keep doing better on the next test b/c if they do, they will get a bump up on the most recent previous test.

Look, we know that you are the poster we suspect of being admin or someone close to admin. Please just start your own pro-SBG at Madison thread and see if you get any posts/views besides your own.

I am just a parent at Madison, and I tend to agree with PP. SBG has been fine. My kid is learning the material, he has to revisit it every unit, and his grades have not changed.

I AM the poster who asked earlier about grade inflation, and in the end, that is all I am seeing here...people mad that homework doesn't prop up a grade on a bad test anymore. The question remains: is your kid learning the material? If so, and most likely, why are you upset?

This nonsense that Madison students will have lower grades is just that-nonsense

I am not really seeing any legit arguments.

First this argument is flawed because there wasn't a problem with grading or schoolwork to begin with so the idea that you have to refute something that is new to me is flawed. Why doesn't Madison have to prove that it needs to be changed? What problems are they trying to even solve?

There is no benefit to not grading assignments. It makes it confusing to figure out which assignments will be graded and what ones won't. It leads to less practice and less proficiency. it encourages ignoring schoolwork. It's work for the teacher with no benefit to the student. Who wants to go through the trouble of assigning work that doesn't get done? Does it matter if you don't think it will harm anyone? Do we just experiment with an idea that unless we see harm it's all ok? Do we wait for harm to show up? Even the supposedly benefit of helping kids who have a job or have to watch a sibling is suspect because the better fix for this is to have longer due dates for completion, not elimination of work. Kids need practice and that's why practice is assigned.

As for the grading, at least with a retake or test corrections the child got to demonstrate proficiency in an area of learning. It was also systematic for only certain assessments and most classes the most you could get would be a B. Changing a grade from the past doesn't do anything beneficial. It also encourages cheating I would imagine because kids will get confused why its ok to just change a grade from the past based on a future grade. Where in the world does this actually happen beneficially where we whitewash the past with no added effort?

The grading at just a full letter grade doesn't make sense either. They don't match other schools and the point spread from one grade to the other is too large which is why we have smaller point spreads to begin with. The grading of assessments should follow the same grading as the final grade. Why have two different grading systems?

I think the grading is set up to reduce low grades and high grades and bring more people into the B/C range but without doing any work to really lower their grade or bring it up. It's just arbitrarily tweaking grades in a manufactured way.

The school didn't request this change. It's coming from above. Why be angry at parents who didn't want it to begin with? Not everyone is on board with every change is good change.

[Anonymous]

people mad that homework doesn't prop up a grade on a bad test anymore. This was never something that actually happened to any great degree. But really why wouldn't homework contribute some to a grade? People who make these arguments also tend to be the ones who are anti testing. They can't even stay in the same lane with their arguments. Testing should count. So should work in class and out of class. It's all work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's to keep kids focused on looking forward rather than backward (at retakes) and making improvement -- and having that improvement paying off. That's a good incentive to keep working.

I talk to my kid and no one is doing the work anymore if it doesn't count. SBG encourages kids to slack off. I have talked to many Madison students and this is what they say. And all the kids fail the formative assessments on a regular basis. This is not fair to Madison students. We should not be using a system that is different from the rest of the county.

If a student is passing the summative assessments, why do you care whether they took or passed the formative work?

The summative assessments are the ones that get averaged and bumped up. Also, explain to me how bumping a 2nd quarter grade up based on a rise in a 3rd quarter grade demonstrates that the kid understands the content from the 2nd quarter. I have seen a 4th quarter test that was much easier than the 3rd quarter, so at this point, I am suspicious. This is not about learning at all but showing the upward trend admin wants to see. Since you're admin, tell me why this grading policy is just about making you look better.

Since you are a fool...no. watch the video yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly concerned it doesn’t encourage learning.

Quite the opposite! It doesn't DIScourage learning. It encourages kids to keep doing better on the next test b/c if they do, they will get a bump up on the most recent previous test.

Look, we know that you are the poster we suspect of being admin or someone close to admin. Please just start your own pro-SBG at Madison thread and see if you get any posts/views besides your own.

I am just a parent at Madison, and I tend to agree with PP. SBG has been fine. My kid is learning the material, he has to revisit it every unit, and his grades have not changed.

I AM the poster who asked earlier about grade inflation, and in the end, that is all I am seeing here...people mad that homework doesn't prop up a grade on a bad test anymore. The question remains: is your kid learning the material? If so, and most likely, why are you upset?

This nonsense that Madison students will have lower grades is just that-nonsense

I am not really seeing any legit arguments.

First this argument is flawed because there wasn't a problem with grading or schoolwork to begin with so the idea that you have to refute something that is new to me is flawed. Why doesn't Madison have to prove that it needs to be changed? What problems are they trying to even solve?

There is no benefit to not grading assignments. It makes it confusing to figure out which assignments will be graded and what ones won't. It leads to less practice and less proficiency. it encourages ignoring schoolwork. It's work for the teacher with no benefit to the student. Who wants to go through the trouble of assigning work that doesn't get done? Does it matter if you don't think it will harm anyone? Do we just experiment with an idea that unless we see harm it's all ok? Do we wait for harm to show up? Even the supposedly benefit of helping kids who have a job or have to watch a sibling is suspect because the better fix for this is to have longer due dates for completion, not elimination of work. Kids need practice and that's why practice is assigned.

As for the grading, at least with a retake or test corrections the child got to demonstrate proficiency in an area of learning. It was also systematic for only certain assessments and most classes the most you could get would be a B. Changing a grade from the past doesn't do anything beneficial. It also encourages cheating I would imagine because kids will get confused why its ok to just change a grade from the past based on a future grade. Where in the world does this actually happen beneficially where we whitewash the past with no added effort?

The grading at just a full letter grade doesn't make sense either. They don't match other schools and the point spread from one grade to the other is too large which is why we have smaller point spreads to begin with. The grading of assessments should follow the same grading as the final grade. Why have two different grading systems?

I think the grading is set up to reduce low grades and high grades and bring more people into the B/C range but without doing any work to really lower their grade or bring it up. It's just arbitrarily tweaking grades in a manufactured way.

The school didn't request this change. It's coming from above. Why be angry at parents who didn't want it to begin with? Not everyone is on board with every change is good change.

You obviously didn't watch the video or the background info on why. The video is about next year's policies, by the way. Grades aren't being lowered. Kids are given an opportunity to raise their overall grade by showing an upward trend. You can disagree with this policy, but not the fact that it tends to RAISE grades, not lower them.