Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading

[Anonymous]

The work habits were only 10 percent of the grade before if that. I don’t know what class people were getting great grades for work habits beyond just learning material through practice but actually work habits are very important in most jobs anyway. What age child do you have? The units aren’t set up for skills. They are set up for subject material. Did you have a child before this change in the high school program? Was there a problem before that this skills based testing solves? You make assumptions that I didn’t seeing before with the old program. The new grading creates more work for the teacher and less incentive and less organization for the student. I don’t see a benefit to it and am concerned by the extra work to implement and follow.

[Anonymous]

Every time fcps tries a new curriculum 10 years later we are having to revisit it. I feel like the kids are always just Guinea pigs for some new educational trend. Where else is this being done effectively?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The work habits were only 10 percent of the grade before if that. I don’t know what class people were getting great grades for work habits beyond just learning material through practice but actually work habits are very important in most jobs anyway. What age child do you have? The units aren’t set up for skills. They are set up for subject material. Did you have a child before this change in the high school program? Was there a problem before that this skills based testing solves? You make assumptions that I didn’t seeing before with the old program. The new grading creates more work for the teacher and less incentive and less organization for the student. I don’t see a benefit to it and am concerned by the extra work to implement and follow.

You can watch the video. They explain what it is based on and there are QR codes for those who want more background information and the latest understandings of educational policy/research.

I don't really care if they stayed with the old, or move to the new policy. My kid is fine either way. And as a parent, I'm fine either way. I just think this whole thread is D.R.A.M.A --- but that's what you should expect in a school that has a whole lot of smart parents who are generally attached to tradition, and have opinions about everything that they are bold enough to share. Different parts of the county have different levels of this. Vienna does not have shrinking violets, that's for sure.

It's just grading policy. It's NOT life or death. And colleges will still take Madison graduates!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every time fcps tries a new curriculum 10 years later we are having to revisit it. I feel like the kids are always just Guinea pigs for some new educational trend. Where else is this being done effectively?

There are some teachers out there that say they like it, but most don’t. Also, everyone is implementing it differently and doing stuff like Madison where it’s constantly tweaked to try to make it work. I read that if a school has no effective system for incentivizing behavior (attendance, class participation, ect…)that SBG cannot work. Also, why is Madison following the ideas of some venture capitalist that decided to remake himself into an educational guru. If you look up reviews of his book, there is a ton of criticism from educators.

[Anonymous]

The whole premise that skills weren’t assessed before is just made up to support this new grading system. Schools have always measured skills. No private school is going to say they don’t teach skills. I agree old grades shouldn’t be replaced by new grades. More weird educational trends not needed.

[Anonymous]

I remember when Lucy Calkins was all the rage and people thought talking about it was too much drama. Now we are finding out all the flaws. This grading policy has extra work for teachers and students written all over it for no real benefit in learning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The work habits were only 10 percent of the grade before if that. I don’t know what class people were getting great grades for work habits beyond just learning material through practice but actually work habits are very important in most jobs anyway. What age child do you have? The units aren’t set up for skills. They are set up for subject material. Did you have a child before this change in the high school program? Was there a problem before that this skills based testing solves? You make assumptions that I didn’t seeing before with the old program. The new grading creates more work for the teacher and less incentive and less organization for the student. I don’t see a benefit to it and am concerned by the extra work to implement and follow.

You can watch the video. They explain what it is based on and there are QR codes for those who want more background information and the latest understandings of educational policy/research.

I don't really care if they stayed with the old, or move to the new policy. My kid is fine either way. And as a parent, I'm fine either way. I just think this whole thread is D.R.A.M.A --- but that's what you should expect in a school that has a whole lot of smart parents who are generally attached to tradition, and have opinions about everything that they are bold enough to share. Different parts of the county have different levels of this. Vienna does not have shrinking violets, that's for sure.

It's just grading policy. It's NOT life or death. And colleges will still take Madison graduates!

Yes, colleges will still take Madison kids but they will be at a disadvantage coming from a school where grades are being normalized downward vs the grade inflation elsewhere in FCPS.

Competition for college spots is tougher every year. So no not life or death but it may impact the future of some kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I watched the video (I'm a Madison parent) and I thought it was a good description, and a good policy. I really think it's the competitive parents/students who are posting so strenuously against this. They don't like it one bit that some other kid MIGHT just get a bit of a boost for showing progress through the year. They get their A's ALL through the year without exception, and they feel this "softer" grading policy is going to make their perfection less notable.

The point of the SBG is to focus on whether you ultimately master the material, and to stop grading for "work habits."

I'm fine with both of those policies. As long as my kid learns the material (whether that is immediately, or over a few months), I don't care. I want them to learn it. And as for work habits, of course those are important in life.... but doesn't need to be part of the grade. [b]
I think this policy is just fine. My kid thinks it's fine. And, based on what is happening -- sounds like those who are all spun up about it are not going to change it. Sounds to me like it's here to stay. Might as well get used to it.

This is not how it works. Work habits cannot be seen by starting a club or volunteering.

The new grading policy helps the lowest performers who can’t or won’t get homework done for whatever reason. Is that your child? If so, then it makes sense that you support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I watched the video (I'm a Madison parent) and I thought it was a good description, and a good policy. I really think it's the competitive parents/students who are posting so strenuously against this. They don't like it one bit that some other kid MIGHT just get a bit of a boost for showing progress through the year. They get their A's ALL through the year without exception, and they feel this "softer" grading policy is going to make their perfection less notable.

The point of the SBG is to focus on whether you ultimately master the material, and to stop grading for "work habits."

I'm fine with both of those policies. As long as my kid learns the material (whether that is immediately, or over a few months), I don't care. I want them to learn it. And as for work habits, of course those are important in life.... but doesn't need to be part of the grade. Work habits can be assessed in other ways for those who excel in their work habits. (They will still be able to show that on their applications b/c they are the ones who start a club or go the extra mile in volunteering or whatever.)

I think this policy is just fine. My kid thinks it's fine. And, based on what is happening -- sounds like those who are all spun up about it are not going to change it. Sounds to me like it's here to stay. Might as well get used to it.

Skills based grading by design lowers the number of As. (This is what the research has shown and it is a key goal of the policy.). The kids that are getting higher grades are those that would have failed before, they will have an easier time passing and getting Cs. I have zero problem with helping the struggling students with more retakes etc. What I do have a problem with is making it harder for all but the exceptional students to get an A. That is just not the trend of anywhere else in FCPS and I don’t see why Madison has to stand out on this. I would be ok if FCPS were tackling grade inflation county-wide, but I don’t want Madison to be going it alone on this.

[Anonymous]

Grading isn’t equitable. The closer we can get to no grades the better.

[Anonymous]

I’m mostly concerned it doesn’t encourage learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is interesting is that IB schools can’t do this. They have to follow IB assessment policies.

This is why I’m so glad DD will be taking AP courses in most core subjects next year. Our experience this year was that, since the College Board determines the curriculum, DDs AP class was the one least impacted by the SBG mess.

.... Did you not know that AP exam scoring system is quintessentially SBG? AP scoring rubrics are based on the concept of SBG....

For example on free response questions where the question builds upon itself, you earn points for each step along the way even if the final answer is wrong. IB uses the same style of grading. Jesus, you AP boosters are clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grading isn’t equitable. The closer we can get to no grades the better.

Life isn’t equitable. Grades provide a basis for setting people on a proper path. They do it so much better in the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grading isn’t equitable. The closer we can get to no grades the better.

Life isn’t equitable. Grades provide a basis for setting people on a proper path. They do it so much better in the UK.

Deeper learning through equity. What could go wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The work habits were only 10 percent of the grade before if that. I don’t know what class people were getting great grades for work habits beyond just learning material through practice but actually work habits are very important in most jobs anyway. What age child do you have? The units aren’t set up for skills. They are set up for subject material. Did you have a child before this change in the high school program? Was there a problem before that this skills based testing solves? You make assumptions that I didn’t seeing before with the old program. The new grading creates more work for the teacher and less incentive and less organization for the student. I don’t see a benefit to it and am concerned by the extra work to implement and follow.

You can watch the video. They explain what it is based on and there are QR codes for those who want more background information and the latest understandings of educational policy/research.

I don't really care if they stayed with the old, or move to the new policy. My kid is fine either way. And as a parent, I'm fine either way. I just think this whole thread is D.R.A.M.A --- but that's what you should expect in a school that has a whole lot of smart parents who are generally attached to tradition, and have opinions about everything that they are bold enough to share. Different parts of the county have different levels of this. Vienna does not have shrinking violets, that's for sure.

It's just grading policy. It's NOT life or death. And colleges will still take Madison graduates!

Yes, colleges will still take Madison kids but they will be at a disadvantage coming from a school where grades are being normalized downward vs the grade inflation elsewhere in FCPS.

Competition for college spots is tougher every year. So no not life or death but it may impact the future of some kids.

Seems that you didn't watch the video. They aren't being "normalized downward!" They are being UP-graded. They are being "normalized UPWARD." If your most recent grade is higher than the one just prior, they will bump UP the prior grade to match your most recent test grade! That's to keep kids focused on looking forward rather than backward (at retakes) and making improvement -- and having that improvement paying off. That's a good incentive to keep working.