"Not a Meritocracy"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

Ah, so my guess at what I thought you were implying (that somebody is taking your kid’s spot and displacing them) is correct. Those darn lazy public school kids.

Nope, completely missed my point entirely. I’m saying the grind of a Big 3 HS may not be worth it if the college outcomes for public school kids are as good or better. I never said public school kids are lazy. That’s absurd. However, most of the kids I know at JR do not have to work nearly as hard for As and A minuses as kids at Big 3 high schools. Will a Big 3 kid be more prepared for the rigors of college? On balance, perhaps. But is it worth the stress and intensity we put these kids under for four years? Not sure.

Also not sure why other posters are calling me gross when I’m saying the public school kids may be doing it right!

Sorry but public school students that are successful at accessing top colleges are putting themselves through high levels of stress and intensity and are very well prepared for college. To imply they are slackers relative to private school students is insulting. Even the lowly public schoolers would understand that.

Seriously. I’m only awake now after midnight because my MCPS kid is making noise finishing their work for their multiple APs. There’s no school limit to fall back on.

And the manners and the poise...poor kids have to learn that somehow inspire of being stuck in a public. How will they manage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

What you don’t get is that to the vast majority of American families - your kids are the “kids of privilege”. The fact that you are whining about the even more privileged kids is off putting. [b] Trying to explain so you understand the push back.

My kid is a public school kid. She has worked her tail off and has some very good options. I cannot allow you to malign her and her friends and say that her effort and accomplishment is low compared with your kid. I don’t know what you are telling yourself but a kid who is taking 10-14 APs and is navigating a large public school by themselves is not a slouch and deserves to be considered by colleges as much as your snowflake.

And this is why I'm leaving this site. Because people like you have to make every single informative thread in College Confidential about "entitlement" "privilege" and race even though you can't articulate anything beyond using those words. I am in the field and can be helpful to other parents. but, like many others, I'm tired of posters making every thread political and screaming accusations when there is no merit. It's just not worth it anymore. The entire site has become too mean.

[Anonymous]

Did you actually even read the thread. It is intentionally to talk about rich privileged students and the actual privileges they receive in terms of access to elite college admissions. If you don't want to discuss that...why are you even in this thread? Start one about your topic.

[Anonymous]

Looks like the snooty private high schools will start to accept more of the families you mentioned to improve chances of acceptance. Then, snooty private can pretend they are the reason the kids got accepted as opposed to legacy/money/fame.

Your post sounds to me like you have some sour grapes. As in: you are a privileged person yet see people who are even MORE wealthy/famous getting something you want. You presumably sent your kid to this school to have a leg up on college admissions so $250k down the drain?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

What you don’t get is that to the vast majority of American families - your kids are the “kids of privilege”. The fact that you are whining about the even more privileged kids is off putting. Trying to explain so you understand the push back.

My kid is a public school kid. She has worked her tail off and has some very good options. I cannot allow you to malign her and her friends and say that her effort and accomplishment is low compared with your kid. I don’t know what you are telling yourself but a kid who is taking 10-14 APs and is navigating a large public school by themselves is not a slouch and deserves to be considered by colleges as much as your snowflake.

LOL, this is one of the worst takes I've read in a while. By this logic, the vast majority of underprivileged kids/families in America expressing concern about how our system treats them would be "off-putting" to the people living in myriad more dismal circumstances all around the globe.

Just because someone is relatively better off than me doesn't mean they don't have some legitimate concerns about how the system treats them and about fairness for someone in their circumstance. Nor does them expressing their POV mean they don't recognize that they are still more fortunate/privileged than many others like myself. Being able to see things from someone else's perspective is a two-way street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

Ah, so my guess at what I thought you were implying (that somebody is taking your kid’s spot and displacing them) is correct. Those darn lazy public school kids.

Nope, completely missed my point entirely. I’m saying the grind of a Big 3 HS may not be worth it if the college outcomes for public school kids are as good or better. I never said public school kids are lazy. That’s absurd. However, most of the kids I know at JR do not have to work nearly as hard for As and A minuses as kids at Big 3 high schools. Will a Big 3 kid be more prepared for the rigors of college? On balance, perhaps. But is it worth the stress and intensity we put these kids under for four years? Not sure.

Also not sure why other posters are calling me gross when I’m saying the public school kids may be doing it right!

Sorry but public school students that are successful at accessing top colleges are putting themselves through high levels of stress and intensity and are very well prepared for college. To imply they are slackers relative to private school students is insulting. Even the lowly public schoolers would understand that.

NP. My God you are insanely defensive, and I say that as someone with kids in both public and private. This thread isn’t about you or your kid. Stop derailing it with ridiculous posts that are entirely off topic. You make public parents look really bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

What you don’t get is that to the vast majority of American families - your kids are the “kids of privilege”. The fact that you are whining about the even more privileged kids is off putting. [b] Trying to explain so you understand the push back.

My kid is a public school kid. She has worked her tail off and has some very good options. I cannot allow you to malign her and her friends and say that her effort and accomplishment is low compared with your kid. I don’t know what you are telling yourself but a kid who is taking 10-14 APs and is navigating a large public school by themselves is not a slouch and deserves to be considered by colleges as much as your snowflake.

And this is why I'm leaving this site. Because people like you have to make every single informative thread in College Confidential about "entitlement" "privilege" and race even though you can't articulate anything beyond using those words. I am in the field and can be helpful to other parents. but, like many others, I'm tired of posters making every thread political and screaming accusations when there is no merit. It's just not worth it anymore. The entire site has become too mean.

I agree with you. This thread has gone off the rails because of myopic and mean posters like the PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

Ah, so my guess at what I thought you were implying (that somebody is taking your kid’s spot and displacing them) is correct. Those darn lazy public school kids.

Nope, completely missed my point entirely. I’m saying the grind of a Big 3 HS may not be worth it if the college outcomes for public school kids are as good or better. I never said public school kids are lazy. That’s absurd. However, most of the kids I know at JR do not have to work nearly as hard for As and A minuses as kids at Big 3 high schools. Will a Big 3 kid be more prepared for the rigors of college? On balance, perhaps. But is it worth the stress and intensity we put these kids under for four years? Not sure.

Also not sure why other posters are calling me gross when I’m saying the public school kids may be doing it right!

Sorry but public school students that are succelssful at accessing top colleges are putting themselves through high levels of stress and intensity and are very well prepared for college. To imply they are slackers relative to private school students is insulting. Even the lowly public schoolers would understand that.

6th
NP. My God you are insanely defensive, and I say that as someone with kids in both public and private. This thread isn’t about you or your kid. Stop derailing it with ridiculous posts that are entirely off topic. You make public parents look really bad.

Uhhhh...that is the most defensive post yet. Irony.

[Anonymous]

I mean, just after a brief read here, it seems like a lot of parents are just upset that they weren't able to buy their kids' admissions into their preferred colleges via PS tuition. And they're upset that public school students are taking up spots that they assumed were prepaid for because "meritocracy.'

Huh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, just after a brief read here, it seems like a lot of parents are just upset that they weren't able to buy their kids' admissions into their preferred colleges via PS tuition. And they're upset that public school students are taking up spots that they assumed were prepaid for because "meritocracy.'

Huh.

Haha so true. It's like the aspiring TJ parents upset that they can no longer buy the entrance exam. Then Complain about merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

This is all over the map (academically & geographically): Denison, College of the Holy Cross, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Pitt, St. Olaf, DePaul, University of Rhode Island, University of New Hampshire

Those are safety schools for public school kids with those stats. Big 3 can’t even get into Bates or Smith ED with those stats? Kenyon RD?

All three schools you listed should not be considered safeties. Why do you think that big 3 students should get into better colleges than public school kids of the same stats?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

What you don’t get is that to the vast majority of American families - your kids are the “kids of privilege”. The fact that you are whining about the even more privileged kids is off putting. Trying to explain so you understand the push back.

My kid is a public school kid. She has worked her tail off and has some very good options. I cannot allow you to malign her and her friends and say that her effort and accomplishment is low compared with your kid. I don’t know what you are telling yourself but a kid who is taking 10-14 APs and is navigating a large public school by themselves is not a slouch and deserves to be considered by colleges as much as your snowflake.

And this is why I'm leaving this site. Because people like you have to make every single informative thread in College Confidential about "entitlement" [b]"privilege" and race even though you can't articulate anything beyond using those words. I am in the field and can be helpful to other parents. but, like many others, I'm tired of posters making every thread political and screaming accusations when there is no merit. It's just not worth it anymore. The entire site has become too mean.

Attending a private high school is certainly a privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

This is all over the map (academically & geographically): Denison, College of the Holy Cross, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Pitt, St. Olaf, DePaul, University of Rhode Island, University of New Hampshire

Those are safety schools for public school kids with those stats. Big 3 can’t even get into Bates or Smith ED with those stats? Kenyon RD?

All three schools you listed should not be considered safeties. Why do you think that big 3 students should get into better colleges than public school kids of the same stats?

If it is understood that a 3.2 at a private school is like a 3.7 at a public school because of different grading standards, then there should be some effort to make an adjustment. That would be fair and rational right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

This is all over the map (academically & geographically): Denison, College of the Holy Cross, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Pitt, St. Olaf, DePaul, University of Rhode Island, University of New Hampshire

Those are safety schools for public school kids with those stats. Big 3 can’t even get into Bates or Smith ED with those stats? Kenyon RD?

All three schools you listed should not be considered safeties. Why do you think that big 3 students should get into better colleges than public school kids of the same stats?

I don’t. I’m a public school parent trying the understand why someone is saying a Big 3 kid with a 1490 may end up at UNH or St. Olaf. I highly doubt it unless they threw away their early decision on an overshoot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

This is all over the map (academically & geographically): Denison, College of the Holy Cross, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Pitt, St. Olaf, DePaul, University of Rhode Island, University of New Hampshire

Those are safety schools for public school kids with those stats. Big 3 can’t even get into Bates or Smith ED with those stats? Kenyon RD?

All three schools you listed should not be considered safeties. Why do you think that big 3 students should get into better colleges than public school kids of the same stats?

If it is understood that a 3.2 at a private school is like a 3.7 at a public school because of different grading standards, then there should be some effort to make an adjustment. That would be fair and rational right?

Well, you chose to send your kid to private school knowing it had a “different grading system.” Second, that’s like saying that a 4.0 in public school could never be considered good enough.