"Not a Meritocracy"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

What you don’t get is that to the vast majority of American families - your kids are the “kids of privilege”. The fact that you are whining about the even more privileged kids is off putting. Trying to explain so you understand the push back.

My kid is a public school kid. She has worked her tail off and has some very good options. I cannot allow you to malign her and her friends and say that her effort and accomplishment is low compared with your kid. I don’t know what you are telling yourself but a kid who is taking 10-14 APs and is navigating a large public school by themselves is not a slouch and deserves to be considered by colleges as much as your snowflake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

You're gross.

Different poster here who has had high schoolers at both a Big3 and JR (formally Wilson). The Big3 requires at least 4 times the work that my other kids did at Wilson. It's night and day.
I have a 4th kid and we're not sure what we're going to do with this kid as I think the sweat spot is somewhere between the two options we've tried so far.

The comparison between “the Big 3” and a large public school is meaningless…that’s great that your kid at the fancy private had way more work but so what? Most kids at Wilson don’t have families that can shell out $50k/year …should colleges just shun the public school kids?

Also, after 9th grade, Wilson kids get plenty of work if they choose rigorous courses. My kids easily had 2-3 hours per night…I’m sure less than top privates, but not a quarter as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

You're gross.

Different poster here who has had high schoolers at both a Big3 and JR (formally Wilson). The Big3 requires at least 4 times the work that my other kids did at Wilson. It's night and day.
I have a 4th kid and we're not sure what we're going to do with this kid as I think the sweat spot is somewhere between the two options we've tried so far.

The comparison between “the Big 3” and a large public school is meaningless…that’s great that your kid at the fancy private had way more work but so what? Most kids at Wilson don’t have families that can shell out $50k/year …should colleges just shun the public school kids?

Also, after 9th grade, Wilson kids get plenty of work if they choose rigorous courses. My kids easily had 2-3 hours per night…I’m sure less than top privates, but not a quarter as much.

We are not shelling out $50K for private--my kid gets aid.

[Anonymous]

OP, come back in April when the dust has settled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

You're gross.

Different poster here who has had high schoolers at both a Big3 and JR (formally Wilson). The Big3 requires at least 4 times the work that my other kids did at Wilson. It's night and day.
I have a 4th kid and we're not sure what we're going to do with this kid as I think the sweat spot is somewhere between the two options we've tried so far.

Do you every think the 4x is stupid?

[Anonymous]

"Np. You paid $50k a year to get your kid into a good college. Indeed you are outraged that you are not getting this expected outcome. But classmate larlo’s parents paid an extra $50million to some T20 get their kid into a super great college. And you somehow think that is unfair? You have no moral ground to stand on. You are a hypocrite. You tried to buy your kid a leg up on the public school kids and you lost. You think public school kid parents should similarly resent you for buying your kids way into a better school? I’m sure in that case your argument would be ‘well we all want to give our kids the best opportunities."

OP is worried about her child getting into college. Are parents of private school kids not allowed to say that their child has worked hard, Did she say that kids at public schools don't work hard? No she did not. Does slamming her make you feel better? Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Np. You paid $50k a year to get your kid into a good college. Indeed you are outraged that you are not getting this expected outcome. But classmate larlo’s parents paid an extra $50million to some T20 get their kid into a super great college. And you somehow think that is unfair? You have no moral ground to stand on. You are a hypocrite. You tried to buy your kid a leg up on the public school kids and you lost. You think public school kid parents should similarly resent you for buying your kids way into a better school? I’m sure in that case your argument would be ‘well we all want to give our kids the best opportunities."

OP is worried about her child getting into college. Are parents of private school kids not allowed to say that their child has worked hard, Did she say that kids at public schools don't work hard? [b]No she did not. Does slamming her make you feel better? Sad.[/b]

OP isn’t worried about her child getting into *a* college. There are thousands of colleges.

And yes, she did say public school kids do “minimal work.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

This is all over the map (academically & geographically): Denison, College of the Holy Cross, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Pitt, St. Olaf, DePaul, University of Rhode Island, University of New Hampshire

Those are safety schools for public school kids with those stats. Big 3 can’t even get into Bates or Smith ED with those stats? Kenyon RD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

Ah, so my guess at what I thought you were implying (that somebody is taking your kid’s spot and displacing them) is correct. Those darn lazy public school kids.

Nope, completely missed my point entirely. I’m saying the grind of a Big 3 HS may not be worth it if the college outcomes for public school kids are as good or better. I never said public school kids are lazy. That’s absurd. However, most of the kids I know at JR do not have to work nearly as hard for As and A minuses as kids at Big 3 high schools. Will a Big 3 kid be more prepared for the rigors of college? On balance, perhaps. But is it worth the stress and intensity we put these kids under for four years? Not sure.

Also not sure why other posters are calling me gross when I’m saying the public school kids may be doing it right!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

It’s possible that Wisconsin or other schools know that your private school student isn’t actually going to attend. In contrast, that DC public school kid is probably seriously considering taking their tag benefit to Madison. If they both apply to say Lafayette, and that public school kid has more than 50% need, they’re likely not getting in while yours is. And by the way - if that kid did minimal work but is getting into a great school, they’re probably just smarter than your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

It’s possible that Wisconsin or other schools know that your private school student isn’t actually going to attend. In contrast, that DC public school kid is probably seriously considering taking their tag benefit to Madison. If they both apply to say Lafayette, and that public school kid has more than 50% need, they’re likely not getting in while yours is. And by the way - if that kid did minimal work but is getting into a great school, they’re probably just smarter than your kid.

There are *many* kids at our Big 3 who were deferred from Wisconsin this year and who are crossing every finger and toe that they get in in RD. They would go in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

It’s possible that Wisconsin or other schools know that your private school student isn’t actually going to attend. In contrast, that DC public school kid is probably seriously considering taking their tag benefit to Madison. If they both apply to say Lafayette, and that public school kid has more than 50% need, they’re likely not getting in while yours is. And by the way - if that kid did minimal work but is getting into a great school, they’re probably just smarter than your kid.

There are *many* kids at our Big 3 who were deferred from Wisconsin this year and who are crossing every finger and toe that they get in in RD. They would go in a heartbeat.

I think they’re yield protecting now at least from our area and I don’t actually think it’s limited to private school kids. Though I think that could be a reasonable approach if that’s what their data supported.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

Ah, so my guess at what I thought you were implying (that somebody is taking your kid’s spot and displacing them) is correct. Those darn lazy public school kids.

Nope, completely missed my point entirely. I’m saying the grind of a Big 3 HS may not be worth it if the college outcomes for public school kids are as good or better. I never said public school kids are lazy. That’s absurd. However, most of the kids I know at JR do not have to work nearly as hard for As and A minuses as kids at Big 3 high schools. Will a Big 3 kid be more prepared for the rigors of college? On balance, perhaps. But is it worth the stress and intensity we put these kids under for four years? Not sure.

Also not sure why other posters are calling me gross when I’m saying the public school kids may be doing it right!

Sorry but public school students that are successful at accessing top colleges are putting themselves through high levels of stress and intensity and are very well prepared for college. To imply they are slackers relative to private school students is insulting. Even the lowly public schoolers would understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

Ah, so my guess at what I thought you were implying (that somebody is taking your kid’s spot and displacing them) is correct. Those darn lazy public school kids.

Nope, completely missed my point entirely. I’m saying the grind of a Big 3 HS may not be worth it if the college outcomes for public school kids are as good or better. I never said public school kids are lazy. That’s absurd. However, most of the kids I know at JR do not have to work nearly as hard for As and A minuses as kids at Big 3 high schools. Will a Big 3 kid be more prepared for the rigors of college? On balance, perhaps. But is it worth the stress and intensity we put these kids under for four years? Not sure.

Also not sure why other posters are calling me gross when I’m saying the public school kids may be doing it right!

Sorry but public school students that are successful at accessing top colleges are putting themselves through high levels of stress and intensity and are very well prepared for college. To imply they are slackers relative to private school students is insulting. Even the lowly public schoolers would understand that.

Seriously. I’m only awake now after midnight because my MCPS kid is making noise finishing their work for their multiple APs. There’s no school limit to fall back on.

[Anonymous]

My kid went to a big 3 for a couple years and it was wonderful. But you don’t do it for an upper hand in admissions, you do it for the education and experience. My kid developed incredible work and study habits, felt valued for being studious, and became more poised and well-mannered. We moved before graduation and they did not go to a fancy college, but did get a free ride and now going to a fancy grad school. What they learn there will carry them far.