"Not a Meritocracy"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

What you don’t get is that to the vast majority of American families - your kids are the “kids of privilege”. The fact that you are whining about the even more privileged kids is off putting. [b] Trying to explain so you understand the push back.

My kid is a public school kid. She has worked her tail off and has some very good options. I cannot allow you to malign her and her friends and say that her effort and accomplishment is low compared with your kid. I don’t know what you are telling yourself but a kid who is taking 10-14 APs and is navigating a large public school by themselves is not a slouch and deserves to be considered by colleges as much as your snowflake.

And this is why I'm leaving this site. Because people like you have to make every single informative thread in College Confidential about "entitlement" "privilege" and race even though you can't articulate anything beyond using those words. I am in the field and can be helpful to other parents. but, like many others, I'm tired of posters making every thread political and screaming accusations when there is no merit. It's just not worth it anymore. The entire site has become too mean.

Barring obscenities, people are allowed to say what they want here. Perhaps examine why posts like OP’s consistently elicit certain reactions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

What you don’t get is that to the vast majority of American families - your kids are the “kids of privilege”. The fact that you are whining about the even more privileged kids is off putting. Trying to explain so you understand the push back.

My kid is a public school kid. She has worked her tail off and has some very good options. I cannot allow you to malign her and her friends and say that her effort and accomplishment is low compared with your kid. I don’t know what you are telling yourself but a kid who is taking 10-14 APs and is navigating a large public school by themselves is not a slouch and deserves to be considered by colleges as much as your snowflake.

LOL, this is one of the worst takes I've read in a while. By this logic, the vast majority of underprivileged kids/families in America expressing concern about how our system treats them would be "off-putting" to the people living in myriad more dismal circumstances all around the globe.

Just because someone is relatively better off than me doesn't mean they don't have some legitimate concerns about how the system treats them and about fairness for someone in their circumstance. Nor does them expressing their POV mean they don't recognize that they are still more fortunate/privileged than many others like myself. Being able to see things from someone else's perspective is a two-way street.

DP. your post is obtuse. Good gawd.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

This is all over the map (academically & geographically): Denison, College of the Holy Cross, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Pitt, St. Olaf, DePaul, University of Rhode Island, University of New Hampshire

Those are safety schools for public school kids with those stats. Big 3 can’t even get into Bates or Smith ED with those stats? Kenyon RD?

All three schools you listed should not be considered safeties. Why do you think that big 3 students should get into better colleges than public school kids of the same stats?

If it is understood that a 3.2 at a private school is like a 3.7 at a public school because of different grading standards, then there should be some effort to make an adjustment. That would be fair and rational right?

I think every college on the list in this thread is aware of the top public and private schools in this area and how to evaluate the students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

This is all over the map (academically & geographically): Denison, College of the Holy Cross, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Pitt, St. Olaf, DePaul, University of Rhode Island, University of New Hampshire

Those are safety schools for public school kids with those stats. Big 3 can’t even get into Bates or Smith ED with those stats? Kenyon RD?

All three schools you listed should not be considered safeties. Why do you think that big 3 students should get into better colleges than public school kids of the same stats?

If it is understood that a 3.2 at a private school is like a 3.7 at a public school because of different grading standards, then there should be some effort to make an adjustment. That would be fair and rational right?

I think every college on the list in this thread is aware of the top public and private schools in this area and how to evaluate the students

Absolutely. I think some of the private school parents are just mad that their child is no longer being chosen over a stronger public school student, as the system worked for decades. And indeed still works for legacy, development, rowers, and even just full pay at some colleges. No one gives up privilege willingly.

[Anonymous]

Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

Which is ridiculous because their students get into better schools than public school kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

The colleges have fancy computerized systems where they can compare the success at the college of current college students who were admitted with similar grades from the same high school. If students aren’t getting in, maybe those kids with lower grades aren’t actually performing that well in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

Doesn’t mean it’s true. If you look at the recent Wisconsin thread a public school student with a 1560, uw 4.0, 12 AP's was deferred. It’s gotten a lot harder for all students public and private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

Which is ridiculous because their students get into better schools than public school kids.

I would be that if you look at the population of public school kids who could have gotten into private and whose parents could have afforded it, the college lists are going to look a lot like private school lists. Overall, private school admissions will always be better because public schools have to educate every kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

This. My kid has been in public and private. Public school was not rigorous (even though it’s one of the “top area public schools). My kid’s gpa would be much higher in public. Maybe colleges were never really distinguishing between the rigor of schools or mandatory SATs disguised this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

This. My kid has been in public and private. Public school was not rigorous (even though it’s one of the “top area public schools). My kid’s gpa would be much higher in public. Maybe colleges were never really distinguishing between the rigor of schools or mandatory SATs disguised this.

You chose private. Deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

Doesn’t mean it’s true. If you look at the recent Wisconsin thread a public school student with a 1560, uw 4.0, 12 AP's was deferred. It’s gotten a lot harder for all students public and private.

It’s only harder because people are focused on the same 30 or 40 colleges. There are literally hundreds of colleges where even the most exceptional students can be challenged. But people only focus on the ones that will feel good to put on the car window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Everyone is disappointed when their hard working student does not get into a desired college. That is true across the board.

Yes, but private school parents seem to be blaming the private school, as if paying for the $$ private school should mean they should get special treatment.

I have no dog in this fight but it seems the position of the private schools is that their kids with lower GPAs are being evaluated more harshly. Like the appropriate adjustments are not being made for the rigor of the grading.

This. My kid has been in public and private. Public school was not rigorous (even though it’s one of the “top area public schools). My kid’s gpa would be much higher in public. Maybe colleges were never really distinguishing between the rigor of schools or mandatory SATs disguised this.

I think the reality is especially with larger colleges they don’t have time to parse the grading nuances of each school. And all schools seem to have some incentive to post high average GPAs just as they have an incentive to post high average SATs. So presented with two kids with identical test scores but one has a 4.0 at a public school that they think is probably easier and the other has a 3.5 at a rigorous private school, the bias is probably to take the public kid.