NYU Prof fired because his class was too hard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He was used to Princeton students and failed to adjust down for a lower-achieving cohort. Pretty straightforward.

This is actually what I assume as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know it’s fun to bash the students. But this is a large class that’s fundamental to many degrees. Lots of tuition dollars involved. Why did the college hire an octogenarian on contract? This should be taught by a tenured professor. The students have a right to complain on that point alone. The guy may no doubt had an illustrious career elsewhere, but at NYU he’s an admin cash grab. Of course, he’s also the kind of guy who knows someone who knows someone at the NYT, but all the more reason to realize the students have a point.

+1 I was just reading through the comments in the NYT and had to laugh at the number of comments about lazy, inattentive, snowflake students who got a "tenured professor" fired. Maybe the lazy and inattentive readers commenting should have paid more attention to the article, including the fact that Dr. Jones was teaching on a yearly contract.

That's your takeaway? You do realize he was tenured at Princeton.

Students today are entitled and lazy. This country need to vastly increase legal immigration because I don't see this generation as being capable of carrying the torch forward.

DP. And for some reason he gave up his tenured position at Princeton and decided to take a year-to-year contract with NYU.

He retired to NYC... Not particularly complicated to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was used to Princeton students and failed to adjust down for a lower-achieving cohort. Pretty straightforward.

This is actually what I assume as well.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

This is quite a funny thing to say. He doesn't have very much introspection--does he? If you have so many students failing and unhappy in your class, maybe you need to look at what YOU are doing or not doing and also accept responsibility. I'm a former high school teacher who also spent many years as a college adjunct. If I had THAT many students who were failing my class, you can bet your bottom dollar I would have gotten in big trouble, and it wouldn't even have come from the students. The administration would have wanted to know why my students were struggling so much and what I was doing to help them. It doesn't look good for schools. The only reason he was given as much freedom as he was is that he had very solid credentials.

There's something to be said about dumbing down curriculum and grade inflation. It's not really good for students. But this guy doesn't seem to have an ounce of self-reflection here, which kind of makes him seem like an arrogant jerk?

[Anonymous]

Most professors are not good teachers. Some are worse than others. It's important to go to college with as many AP credits as you can, so you can register early and not get stuck with the duds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

This is quite a funny thing to say. He doesn't have very much introspection--does he? If you have so many students failing and unhappy in your class, maybe you need to look at what YOU are doing or not doing and also accept responsibility. I'm a former high school teacher who also spent many years as a college adjunct. If I had THAT many students who were failing my class, you can bet your bottom dollar I would have gotten in big trouble, and it wouldn't even have come from the students. The administration would have wanted to know why my students were struggling so much and what I was doing to help them. It doesn't look good for schools. The only reason he was given as much freedom as he was is that he had very solid credentials.

There's something to be said about dumbing down curriculum and grade inflation. It's not really good for students. But this guy doesn't seem to have an ounce of self-reflection here, which kind of makes him seem like an arrogant jerk?

I take your point but on balance I think he is more right than the students. Apparently there were a number of kids doing well in the class and it’s a given that a certain number of kids will crash and burn in organic. Do I think he was uniquely terrible and that the petitioners would have thrived with equal effort (and normal rigor) in another class? I do not! In any case, the mcat will sort them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

This is quite a funny thing to say. He doesn't have very much introspection--does he? If you have so many students failing and unhappy in your class, maybe you need to look at what YOU are doing or not doing and also accept responsibility. I'm a former high school teacher who also spent many years as a college adjunct. If I had THAT many students who were failing my class, you can bet your bottom dollar I would have gotten in big trouble, and it wouldn't even have come from the students. The administration would have wanted to know why my students were struggling so much and what I was doing to help them. It doesn't look good for schools. The only reason he was given as much freedom as he was is that he had very solid credentials.

There's something to be said about dumbing down curriculum and grade inflation. It's not really good for students. But this guy doesn't seem to have an ounce of self-reflection here, which kind of makes him seem like an arrogant jerk?

I take your point but on balance I think he is more right than the students. Apparently there were a number of kids doing well in the class and it’s a given that a certain number of kids will crash and burn in organic. Do I think he was uniquely terrible and that the petitioners would have thrived with equal effort (and normal rigor) in another class? I do not! In any case, the mcat will sort them!

The reality is the school has a control group. The other organic chemistry classes. They are learning the material and passing exams. His class isn’t, it’s not complicated, he is the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

This is quite a funny thing to say. He doesn't have very much introspection--does he? If you have so many students failing and unhappy in your class, maybe you need to look at what YOU are doing or not doing and also accept responsibility. I'm a former high school teacher who also spent many years as a college adjunct. If I had THAT many students who were failing my class, you can bet your bottom dollar I would have gotten in big trouble, and it wouldn't even have come from the students. The administration would have wanted to know why my students were struggling so much and what I was doing to help them. It doesn't look good for schools. The only reason he was given as much freedom as he was is that he had very solid credentials.

There's something to be said about dumbing down curriculum and grade inflation. It's not really good for students. But this guy doesn't seem to have an ounce of self-reflection here, which kind of makes him seem like an arrogant jerk?

I take your point but on balance I think he is more right than the students. Apparently there were a number of kids doing well in the class and it’s a given that a certain number of kids will crash and burn in organic. Do I think he was uniquely terrible and that the petitioners would have thrived with equal effort (and normal rigor) in another class? I do not! In any case, the mcat will sort them!

Haven't many of us seen the exact opposite on a smaller scale in HS. Both of my children had the same teacher who by all accounts had a reputation as a terrible teacher, and thanks to pandemic zoom, we could hear this in action. This was a math teacher and my two kids handle math very differently. One has a natural grasp of math and the other struggles. The one who struggles puts in far more work. Guess who had the better grade - the one with the natural grasp. According to some of you, this means he is a fine math teacher. Kids with As and all. But he is not. Good students will thrive despite terrible teachers and poor students will flounder. The difference is that now students (and parents) are much more vocal about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

Is this for real? Where did you get this letter?

Yes, it's real. A colleague passed it along.

This is pretty much why my father retired 15 years earlier than I thought he would. He loved teaching and I thought he might never retire. But over the decades of his career, students became consumers who thought they bought the right to succeed when they paid their tuition. Respect for expertise and knowledge has diminished and now there’s a frequent “you work for me” attitude instead.

I'm a regular person so I have to keep developing, growing, showing value to the people who pay me money to work or I will be canned. The concept of tenure seems utterly outdated and I have yet to hear of anything persuasive in favor of it. Sounds like a contributor to ossification.

Students today pay far more for college than you or your father did. Therefore, the standards and expectations are going to increase. Sounds like your father did not understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

This is quite a funny thing to say. He doesn't have very much introspection--does he? If you have so many students failing and unhappy in your class, maybe you need to look at what YOU are doing or not doing and also accept responsibility. I'm a former high school teacher who also spent many years as a college adjunct. If I had THAT many students who were failing my class, you can bet your bottom dollar I would have gotten in big trouble, and it wouldn't even have come from the students. The administration would have wanted to know why my students were struggling so much and what I was doing to help them. It doesn't look good for schools. The only reason he was given as much freedom as he was is that he had very solid credentials.

There's something to be said about dumbing down curriculum and grade inflation. It's not really good for students. But this guy doesn't seem to have an ounce of self-reflection here, which kind of makes him seem like an arrogant jerk?

I take your point but on balance I think he is more right than the students. Apparently there were a number of kids doing well in the class and it’s a given that a certain number of kids will crash and burn in organic. Do I think he was uniquely terrible and that the petitioners would have thrived with equal effort (and normal rigor) in another class? I do not! In any case, the mcat will sort them!

The reality is the school has a control group. The other organic chemistry classes. They are learning the material and passing exams. His class isn’t, it’s not complicated, he is the problem.

Yep, this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was used to Princeton students and failed to adjust down for a lower-achieving cohort. Pretty straightforward.

This is actually what I assume as well.

+2

Yes, only the very top tier of NYU students is comparable to the Princeton students he was accustomed to, so the outcome is not surprising. At his age, he was either unwilling or unable to adapt to a different student constituency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was used to Princeton students and failed to adjust down for a lower-achieving cohort. Pretty straightforward.

This is actually what I assume as well.

+2

Yes, only the very top tier of NYU students is comparable to the Princeton students he was accustomed to, so the outcome is not surprising. At his age, he was either unwilling or unable to adapt to a different student constituency.

Agreed, his inflexibility was the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was used to Princeton students and failed to adjust down for a lower-achieving cohort. Pretty straightforward.

This is actually what I assume as well.

+2

Yes, only the very top tier of NYU students is comparable to the Princeton students he was accustomed to, so the outcome is not surprising. At his age, he was either unwilling or unable to adapt to a different student constituency.

Agreed, his inflexibility was the problem.

Maybe. Or maybe it’s that less and less rigor is expected of students.
Which is the opinion…. Of literally every professor you’ll ever talk to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

Is this for real? Where did you get this letter?

Yes, it's real. A colleague passed it along.

This is pretty much why my father retired 15 years earlier than I thought he would. He loved teaching and I thought he might never retire. But over the decades of his career, students became consumers who thought they bought the right to succeed when they paid their tuition. Respect for expertise and knowledge has diminished and now there’s a frequent “you work for me” attitude instead.

I'm a regular person so I have to keep developing, growing, showing value to the people who pay me money to work or I will be canned. The concept of tenure seems utterly outdated and I have yet to hear of anything persuasive in favor of it. Sounds like a contributor to ossification.

Students today pay far more for college than you or your father did. Therefore, the standards and expectations are going to increase. Sounds like your father did not understand that.

Suppose the tuition fee is increased to a million dollars a year, will you shine the students’s shoes and dole out “A” grades to all of them for submitting blank answer sheets? Because million dollars a year tuition is more than what the current NY U students are paying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was used to Princeton students and failed to adjust down for a lower-achieving cohort. Pretty straightforward.

This is actually what I assume as well.

+2

Yes, only the very top tier of NYU students is comparable to the Princeton students he was accustomed to, so the outcome is not surprising. At his age, he was either unwilling or unable to adapt to a different student constituency.

Agreed, his inflexibility was the problem.

So dumbing down his class to accommodate below average students? How about changing organic chemistry to test optional? Maybe we could change med school admission to lottery.. problem solved!