Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And to your second point: Please point to something in the Catechism that says you can access Heaven even if you do not accept Jesus during your lifetime (and you have had the opportunity to do so, through being exposed to the Gospel).

I really think we need to root this conversation in official Church doctrine.

Catechism paragraph 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Yeah, they’re sort of grandfathered in because they also adhere to an Abrahamic religion. But what does it say about those who are atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, etc.?

Look. You asked me to point out something in the Catechism that says that people who are not baptized Catholic can still enter Heaven. This is what came to mind. I don’t have the Catechism memorized. I’m just a mom driving kids around after school. I have to make dinner now, and I have to do some work tonight after the kids go to bed, so I won’t be back.
I hope that you find some of the answers that you are looking for. And I do recommend CS Lewis “The Great Divorce” if you are looking for some thoughts on Heaven and Hell.
I will keep you in my prayers today.

I hope that you consider that the Church isn’t

Why are you praying for me?

I don’t know. I wish you well, peace, and a lightening of your burdens.
It wasn’t a long prayer. That was pretty much it.

Thanks, I guess? I just don’t know why you felt that I specifically needed to be prayed for.

Do you know anyone who doesn’t? I think you are being a little paranoid.

I don't want to be prayed for. I think people should save their prayers for people they know will appreciate them - e.g., religious people of their acquaintance --not strangers on the internet

It’s not really something that exists in a finite amount.
I will continue to wish you peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And to your second point: Please point to something in the Catechism that says you can access Heaven even if you do not accept Jesus during your lifetime (and you have had the opportunity to do so, through being exposed to the Gospel).

I really think we need to root this conversation in official Church doctrine.

Catechism paragraph 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Yeah, they’re sort of grandfathered in because they also adhere to an Abrahamic religion. But what does it say about those who are atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, etc.?

Look. You asked me to point out something in the Catechism that says that people who are not baptized Catholic can still enter Heaven. This is what came to mind. I don’t have the Catechism memorized. I’m just a mom driving kids around after school. I have to make dinner now, and I have to do some work tonight after the kids go to bed, so I won’t be back.
I hope that you find some of the answers that you are looking for. And I do recommend CS Lewis “The Great Divorce” if you are looking for some thoughts on Heaven and Hell.
I will keep you in my prayers today.

I hope that you consider that the Church isn’t

Why are you praying for me?

I don’t know. I wish you well, peace, and a lightening of your burdens.
It wasn’t a long prayer. That was pretty much it.

Thanks, I guess? I just don’t know why you felt that I specifically needed to be prayed for.

Do you know anyone who doesn’t? I think you are being a little paranoid.

DP here. I do not need to be prayed for.

Well then, I hope that you have a time in your life that you deal with sickness, sadness, and problems so that you can better empathize with those that do not share in your good fortune.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And to your second point: Please point to something in the Catechism that says you can access Heaven even if you do not accept Jesus during your lifetime (and you have had the opportunity to do so, through being exposed to the Gospel).

I really think we need to root this conversation in official Church doctrine.

Catechism paragraph 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Yeah, they’re sort of grandfathered in because they also adhere to an Abrahamic religion. But what does it say about those who are atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, etc.?

Look. You asked me to point out something in the Catechism that says that people who are not baptized Catholic can still enter Heaven. This is what came to mind. I don’t have the Catechism memorized. I’m just a mom driving kids around after school. I have to make dinner now, and I have to do some work tonight after the kids go to bed, so I won’t be back.
I hope that you find some of the answers that you are looking for. And I do recommend CS Lewis “The Great Divorce” if you are looking for some thoughts on Heaven and Hell.
I will keep you in my prayers today.

I hope that you consider that the Church isn’t

Why are you praying for me?

I don’t know. I wish you well, peace, and a lightening of your burdens.
It wasn’t a long prayer. That was pretty much it.

Thanks, I guess? I just don’t know why you felt that I specifically needed to be prayed for.

Do you know anyone who doesn’t? I think you are being a little paranoid.

DP here. I do not need to be prayed for.

Well then, I hope that you have a time in your life that you deal with sickness, sadness, and problems so that you can better empathize with those that do not share in your good fortune.

I’m not PP, but you don’t get it — we don’t want your prayers, especially when we don’t ask for them. They reek of arrogance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And to your second point: Please point to something in the Catechism that says you can access Heaven even if you do not accept Jesus during your lifetime (and you have had the opportunity to do so, through being exposed to the Gospel).

I really think we need to root this conversation in official Church doctrine.

Catechism paragraph 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Yeah, they’re sort of grandfathered in because they also adhere to an Abrahamic religion. But what does it say about those who are atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, etc.?

Look. You asked me to point out something in the Catechism that says that people who are not baptized Catholic can still enter Heaven. This is what came to mind. I don’t have the Catechism memorized. I’m just a mom driving kids around after school. I have to make dinner now, and I have to do some work tonight after the kids go to bed, so I won’t be back.
I hope that you find some of the answers that you are looking for. And I do recommend CS Lewis “The Great Divorce” if you are looking for some thoughts on Heaven and Hell.
I will keep you in my prayers today.

I hope that you consider that the Church isn’t

Why are you praying for me?

I don’t know. I wish you well, peace, and a lightening of your burdens.
It wasn’t a long prayer. That was pretty much it.

Thanks, I guess? I just don’t know why you felt that I specifically needed to be prayed for.

Do you know anyone who doesn’t? I think you are being a little paranoid.

DP here. I do not need to be prayed for.

Well then, I hope that you have a time in your life that you deal with sickness, sadness, and problems so that you can better empathize with those that do not share in your good fortune.

I’m not PP, but you don’t get it — we don’t want your prayers, especially when we don’t ask for them. They reek of arrogance.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And to your second point: Please point to something in the Catechism that says you can access Heaven even if you do not accept Jesus during your lifetime (and you have had the opportunity to do so, through being exposed to the Gospel).

I really think we need to root this conversation in official Church doctrine.

Catechism paragraph 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Yeah, they’re sort of grandfathered in because they also adhere to an Abrahamic religion. But what does it say about those who are atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, etc.?

Look. You asked me to point out something in the Catechism that says that people who are not baptized Catholic can still enter Heaven. This is what came to mind. I don’t have the Catechism memorized. I’m just a mom driving kids around after school. I have to make dinner now, and I have to do some work tonight after the kids go to bed, so I won’t be back.
I hope that you find some of the answers that you are looking for. And I do recommend CS Lewis “The Great Divorce” if you are looking for some thoughts on Heaven and Hell.
I will keep you in my prayers today.

I hope that you consider that the Church isn’t

Why are you praying for me?

I don’t know. I wish you well, peace, and a lightening of your burdens.
It wasn’t a long prayer. That was pretty much it.

Thanks, I guess? I just don’t know why you felt that I specifically needed to be prayed for.

Do you know anyone who doesn’t? I think you are being a little paranoid.

DP here. I do not need to be prayed for.

Well then, I hope that you have a time in your life that you deal with sickness, sadness, and problems so that you can better empathize with those that do not share in your good fortune.

So you are wishing sickness, sadness and problems on me? Wow how very christian of you. Thanks so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And to your second point: Please point to something in the Catechism that says you can access Heaven even if you do not accept Jesus during your lifetime (and you have had the opportunity to do so, through being exposed to the Gospel).

I really think we need to root this conversation in official Church doctrine.

Catechism paragraph 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Yeah, they’re sort of grandfathered in because they also adhere to an Abrahamic religion. But what does it say about those who are atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, etc.?

Look. You asked me to point out something in the Catechism that says that people who are not baptized Catholic can still enter Heaven. This is what came to mind. I don’t have the Catechism memorized. I’m just a mom driving kids around after school. I have to make dinner now, and I have to do some work tonight after the kids go to bed, so I won’t be back.
I hope that you find some of the answers that you are looking for. And I do recommend CS Lewis “The Great Divorce” if you are looking for some thoughts on Heaven and Hell.
I will keep you in my prayers today.

I hope that you consider that the Church isn’t

Why are you praying for me?

I don’t know. I wish you well, peace, and a lightening of your burdens.
It wasn’t a long prayer. That was pretty much it.

Thanks, I guess? I just don’t know why you felt that I specifically needed to be prayed for.

Do you know anyone who doesn’t? I think you are being a little paranoid.

DP here. I do not need to be prayed for.

Well then, I hope that you have a time in your life that you deal with sickness, sadness, and problems so that you can better empathize with those that do not share in your good fortune.

So you are wishing sickness, sadness and problems on me? Wow how very christian of you. Thanks so much.

Yes, that's exactly what "sickness, sadness and problems" pp is doing, but thinks it's OK because pp is a Christian who is privileged to talk down to the great unwashed -- people who eschew pp's precious prayers. I predict that pp won't be back to apologize for their most un-christian comments.

[Anonymous]

Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

You don’t decide how people pray, you don’t decide how people vote, you don’t decide how people spend their money, etc.

Prayer is a personal expression.

If you reject the prayer that someone says for you, fine. But you can’t tell anyone how to pray or what to pray for.

Prayer is someone’s chosen way of spiritual expression, and not arrogant. It is ridiculously arrogant to reject God, and lecture people who pray on the role of prayer in their life. Get over yourself.

It’s completely acceptable to pray for you when you say you don’t want prayer. The person who prays has the right to pray whatever they want.

If you don’t like it, that’s fine. But it’s not arrogant to pray for someone.

It is arrogant to insert yourself into a forum that deals with religion and become incredibly butthurt and feel attacked that a Christian prays for you.

Also, I am praying for you right now. I will pray for you tonight as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

It is the attitude of one who prays. It doesn’t influence God necessarily. They person who prays focuses their thoughts and their emotional and spiritual life through prayer and that’s how they choose to interact with aspects of the world around them.

Prayer isn’t arrogant, it’s how some people feel comfortable interacting with their fellow man and the world around them.

Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant. Interaction with religious people, when you have rejected God, and lecturing them on prayer reeks of arrogance.

If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

Prayer can be arrogant and it certainly was in the example here. Anyone anywhere saying they don't want to be prayed for is not arrogant any more than declining any assistance is arrogant.

question: are you saying that it's acceptable for Christians to pray for atheists who have made it clear that they don't want the prayers, but not acceptable for atheists (or anyone) to acknowledge that they don't want the prayers?

And Thanks for demonstrating just how arrogant and insensitive some people can be.

Also, please keep in mind that this is the Religion forum, not the "Religious believers only" forum.

^ I think you're being a bit too had on the Christian lady in this instance. She's not the belligerent believer, and she means well. Just my opinion.

Yes, pp is a raging jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

Great! Then I choose to pray you realize what an arrogant, inconsiderate jerk you are!

Anonymous wrote:Prayer isn’t arrogant

The presumption that everyone you pray for benefits is, though. And I will remind you pf Matthew 6:5-8: "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen."

Anonymous wrote:Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant.

Good thing no one did that. They said "don't pray for me". See the difference?

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

If you like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Atheists, all who do not pray, don’t interact with them.

[Anonymous]

The presumption that everyone you pray for benefits is, though. And I will remind you pf Matthew 6:5-8: "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen."

This makes zero sense. Not being showy with prayer is a different issue than what a person believes about prayer.

People pray differently and have unique thoughts about what they hope their prayer does.

How does the verse about Jesus and prayer relate to how an individual feels about prayer? It’s seemingly unrelated. I don’t understand what point you are trying to make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christians can pray for whomever and whatever they wish to pray for. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Prayer is their choice.

Great! Then I choose to pray you realize what an arrogant, inconsiderate jerk you are!

Anonymous wrote:Prayer isn’t arrogant

The presumption that everyone you pray for benefits is, though. And I will remind you pf Matthew 6:5-8: "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen."

Anonymous wrote:Telling people specifically in a religion forum that their prayers suck is arrogant.

Good thing no one did that. They said "don't pray for me". See the difference?

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, all who pray, don’t interact with them.

If you like prayer, and don’t like interacting with Atheists, all who do not pray, don’t interact with them.

Atheists come to this forum in droves, I can and will interact with them because they choose to come to the religion forum. I can and will pray for them.

I think they have deep personal issues that influence their decision to call themselves atheist but then come to a religion forum daily and try to lecture religious people, mostly Christians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The presumption that everyone you pray for benefits is, though. And I will remind you pf Matthew 6:5-8: "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen."

This makes zero sense. Not being showy with prayer is a different issue than what a person believes about prayer.

No sir, bleating "I'm praying for you!" is in exact contradiction to that verse. Especially when you are certain the person will not appreciate it.