What is the real reason MCPS uses Lottery for Middle School Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Well, the county said it was because of covid and since the makers of the CogAT test wouldn't allow them to admin it remotely last year that seems correct.

The reason they're keeping this is probably to see how it plays out before changing back.

That would be my guess too. I think they will continue to change the process as they measure the results of these changes in order to both serve the larger community and provide a strong program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread had fallen off of the front page from 11/30 until 12/4.

You had to be looking for it in order to see it.

As important as the conversation is the way THIS particular thread just keeps getting brought back to life has a real Frankenstein feeling.

Wel you're right in that nothing posted here is remotely helpful. I'm against the lottery but these posters make me want to defend it.

I think reasonable parents can and should be talking to one another, either in this forum or another. Let's say MCPS is committed to the lottery - the way they've gone about it is slapdash and contradictory to their own stated goals. By eliminating kids who got Bs, and getting rid of the one test that was looking for aptitude over exposure, MCPS has painted themselves into a corner that forced them to lower the MAP cut-off so far that it's basically meaningless.

A more nuanced and equitable approach would be to keep the CogAT and cap it at 95%. Look at MAP and grades secondarily, because for the ES and MS levels, you want to find the kids who CAN do the work, not just those who have already been exposed to it.

It is an inevitable race to the bottom. People with means will get out. Middle class will supplement and suffer. The people it is supposed to help will be stuck in a morass of mediocrity. Venal politicians for the win! Society loses. Tyranny of the majority. Solution: elect the right people. else shut up and bear it. Now only if the right people also promoted better gun laws and kept our students safe...I know. overall, doesn't look good for public schools and our kids.

Easy to say but there aren't any right people as far as I can tell.

Agreed. Sad to see but it is an inevitable race to the bottom with MCPS for now. Academics, safety, civility, and even equity. We need some wise leaders to look out for the whole of society with longer term solutions rather than their own self-interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

Random is random regardless of the specifics. Well, except that a computer program would be pseudo-random which isn't really random, but an reasonable approximation.

Full credit for you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

The fact that there is zero transparency regarding process is troubling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

They likely did a random lottery but didn't bother to send you the number.

[Anonymous]

They do it so that the classes are more diverse. I remember years ago many of the kids from my elementary school who went to magnet programs were white or Asian. The past few years when I look at who was accepted and compare it to the actual performance data, there are kids waitlisted who "qualified" over the accepted students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They do it so that the classes are more diverse. I remember years ago many of the kids from my elementary school who went to magnet programs were white or Asian. The past few years when I look at who was accepted and compare it to the actual performance data, there are kids waitlisted who "qualified" over the accepted students.

No. I believe they did it so that families that could not afford the CoGAT prep schools could have a chance.

But anyone who has plowed through 15 pages of this debate has seen both sides of it by now...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any MCPS kid that can perform anywhere near the top X% ~WITHOUT good parenting at home~ should absolutely be allowed into the magnets.

Not everyone supplements with those CoGAT prep schools. Not everyone has parents home on the weekends or even evenings. There are MANY kids going home and feeding themselves and taking care of their schoolwork while their parent(s) work(s) until 9PM or later.

When those kids can get anywhere near succeeding then MCPS should be celebrated for at least putting their names in the lottery hat

I saw on the AAP board that 30% of TJ's class came from just one of the many local cram schools so have to believe it's about the same here. This suggests that over half of the students being admitted to these programs had an edge over those who did not invest in prep.

There... from this very same thread about two weeks ago. Hash. Hash. Re-hash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

The fact that there is zero transparency regarding process is troubling.

I know for a fact in my high school technical program that we use a random lottery. 358 8th graders entered from all over the county. We will invite them in waves of 20 to 30 without about 1 week to decide, then we invite the next random group. We do not look at academics, race, or any other metrics. However, I am sure other program might do so for equity reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

The fact that there is zero transparency regarding process is troubling.

I know for a fact in my high school technical program that we use a random lottery. 358 8th graders entered from all over the county. We will invite them in waves of 20 to 30 without about 1 week to decide, then we invite the next random group. We do not look at academics, race, or any other metrics. However, I am sure other program might do so for equity reasons.

You should make an emoji that represents "equity" in the context of the endless thread.

Might I suggest a strawman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

When they've been open about these things in the past, many parents and enrichment programs used this information to game the system.

This is the kind of strawman argument that some people present with no evidence. Just that their kids could not perform so blame others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

False the PP was correct. They could provide every single detail and you would still complain that it wasn't transparent.

You are just assuming that part. lack of leadership and lack of transparency is unbeliveable at MCPS. Only some who gain undue advantate and benefit from this type of system will support it. These are the narrow minded folks who cannot think out of the box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Well, the county said it was because of covid and since the makers of the CogAT test wouldn't allow them to admin it remotely last year that seems correct.

The reason they're keeping this is probably to see how it plays out before changing back.

That would be my guess too. I think they will continue to change the process as they measure the results of these changes in order to both serve the larger community and provide a strong program.

wishful thinking from incompetent BOE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the next step in this lottery process? Parents will hear in January whether their kids are in the pool?

No one knows. What is the first step or next or last. That is the fundamental problem. Who is sitting in the basement and picking the numbers? No one knows. The irony is that lottery will not create the look of equity that current BOE wants to create. So there may not be any lottery either even though they say it is. Its crazy stuff

Whatever system MCPS uses, disgruntled parents will gripe.

Not true. looks like some parents are scared of transparency as much as BOE. What is your problem if parents wants to know more about the process? why does it have to be a secret?

Was it a true lottery selection process last year? Did MCPS print student IDs on a piece of paper and draw one at a time from a fish bowl? Or they use a computer software to do random drawing from all the candidates?

I don't think MCPS has ever conducted a truly random lottery. If there was a true random lottery drawing, people would have received numbers (knowing what order their child was drawn in) and there would be a numbered waitlist.

The fact that there is zero transparency regarding process is troubling.

I know for a fact in my high school technical program that we use a random lottery. 358 8th graders entered from all over the county. We will invite them in waves of 20 to 30 without about 1 week to decide, then we invite the next random group. We do not look at academics, race, or any other metrics. However, I am sure other program might do so for equity reasons.

You should make an emoji that represents "equity" in the context of the endless thread.

Might I suggest a strawman?

If you are tired, take a break, get coffee and step away