ICE Shooting in Minneapolis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

Well, you just made him look really bad since she smiled and said that she wasn't angry at them.

That’s certainly another relevant piece of the analysis.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. I may be the only person on the entire internet who hasn’t made up their mind about this.

IMO, based on what we know so far, both parties made mistakes. Based on this limited info, I think criminal liability will be a close call.

Which is why it should go to jury. It's extremely dangerous to allow the federal government to simply wave this away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

Well, you just made him look really bad since she smiled and said that she wasn't angry at them.

That’s certainly another relevant piece of the analysis.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. I may be the only person on the entire internet who hasn’t made up their mind about this.

IMO, based on what we know so far, both parties made mistakes. Based on this limited info, I think criminal liability will be a close call.

Which is why it should go to jury. It's extremely dangerous to allow the federal government to simply wave this away.

PP here. Probably right.

Certainly needs to be independently investigated and an independent prosecutorial decision made—not a decision for either the MAGA goons or MSP (given the mayor’s intemperate comments).

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think this would be going better for the admin if ICE wasn’t regularly doing terrible stuff. Nationally they aren’t respected anymore.[/quote]

Half the country supports what they are doing. [/quote]
Wrong.
[twitter]https://x.com/axios/status/2009698258596102493?s=46&t=kf1qYlCXQnKgUhJWEIu2vg[/twitter]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this would be going better for the admin if ICE wasn’t regularly doing terrible stuff. Nationally they aren’t respected anymore.

Half the country supports what they are doing.

Wrong.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the next step toward Fascism folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

If you were the subject of abuse by another person it is subjective if you become apprehensive if a different person is in front of you. Only if it is the same person would you be objectively reasonable. So, for example, Ross was involved in a prior vehicular incident. That doesn't make his additional fear this time objectively reasonable though it may be subjectively reasonable.

[Anonymous]

If you compare other videos, her wife doesn’t get in the car. She is left behind as the car drives off. Wife has the confrontation with Ross where she taunts him, as he is walking, then tries to open door but it’s locked. She must see the agent on other side trying to open door because she yells to Good, “Drive,
Drive!” just as agent is walking in front of the vehicle, likely to go to the drivers side where the other agents are. It seems she scared her into driving at a catastrophic moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you compare other videos, her wife doesn’t get in the car. She is left behind as the car drives off. Wife has the confrontation with Ross where she taunts him, as he is walking, then tries to open door but it’s locked. She must see the agent on other side trying to open door because she yells to Good, “Drive,
Drive!” just as agent is walking in front of the vehicle, likely to go to the drivers side where the other agents are. It seems she scared her into driving at a catastrophic moment.

That’s my take too. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

I'd rather be alive than try to prove a point with someone who's armed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Jonathan Ross defenses have gotten moronic. Did messaging get lost in the shift change?

It’s actually been fascinating to watch the adjustments in messaging as the videos roll out.

Probably once the Ross panicked message flames out it’s going to move into a more general no one understands ICE and they are just trying to enforce immigration laws and everyone is mean instead of grateful. Finally morphing into vague accusations that people who don’t support Ross are unpatriotic.

But you are correct, the messaging is unpersuasive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the next step toward Fascism folks.

I think that this will be the first step in reversing it. They are going to be forced to defend him in court and they will fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

JFC how thick can you be? Of course it doesn't give permission to kill someone. The officer made a mistake, one that he should receive some kind of reprimendation for. The point that some of us posters are making is that it was an understandable mistake given that,six months earlier he was hospitalized for being dragged by another driver, dealing with someone who was intentionally blocking him in (extremely hostile and agressive behavior) and being antagonized and belittled by the wife (who seemed to be part of the incident) and likely the victim herself. When the victim left she did so recklessly, coming within inches of hitting him (I don't think she was intentionally trying to hit him, but I think she was taking off in a huff)

All of these circumstances together led him to make a split second decision to shoot. The wrong decision, a decision that will at a minimum cost him his job, but given the situation not hard to see how such a mistake happened. These people are in a job where emotions are high, safety is always a concern, and if they make a mistake it could lead to tragedy. It's certainly not a job I could do, because honestly I don't know if I would have been able to keep from backhanding that b**** wife for talking to me like that. But I know that I am not cut out for such a job and sympathize greatly with officers who have to deal with a$$holes who deliberately try to heckle and insult them.

If this is all true while it may be a mitigating circumstance, it is clear he was not fit to be placed back on duty. His superiors, then, should be found culpable for the loss of this woman's life.

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

You are a vile nothing. She was light in tone and complying and because Jonathan E Ross is a motherfn loser, he killed her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

Failure to obey commands?
This is not a police state. ICE doesn’t have unfettered authority to issue commands. ICE’s task is to enforce immigration laws. That’s it.