Superintendent's Recommendation for Richard Montgomery ES #5 Boundaries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should focus on bridging the achievement gaps as much as possible and then make sure that capacity is not crossing in any school. That will take care of boundary assignment. Everything else is noise.

Diversity and proximity, if not related to achievement gaps, are not going to help any student. Finals outcome for students should get the most emphasis.

I think option C or D is the best for closing the achievement gaps. By not seriously considering these two options . MCPS will simply show that achievement gaps can be widened and widening it doesn't matter for MCPS.

I am not from RM cluster, but I am closely following this FARMs debate in RM cluster. It's good that it became a point of discussion.

Have you looked at PARCC scores or other standardized testing in each of these schools? If not, what specific data are you basing your achievement gap argument on??

You don't have to look at each of these schools. You can look at research done within entire MCPS or research done in any other school system to come to conclusion. That will give you a good sample size.

It's a simple conclusion. FARMs kids do best when they are in affluent schools. Their reading scores and math scores keep getting better when compared to FARMs kids who attend schools with high FARMs rate.

Interesting times for MCPS here and it will set the tone for future boundary decisions. If MCPS exclusively focuses on neighborhood then they will have to follow it for all other boundaries in future.

Not the PP but yes you do look at this school and their scores because this isn’t about all other schools. It is about THIS cluster. And yes you do look at the needs of the people and not what is best on paper from vague research that doesn’t even come close to describing what is going on here. Twinbrook doesn’t want to be bussed 5 miles away from their neighborhood school and community center. Not at all.

Also, what research says bussing kids out of safe neighborhood schools to schools 5 miles away is easier for FARMS families and a positive outlook for kids? Please post that research.

What cluster do you live in where you think C and D would be a positive?

This cluster is not unique. All researches are done with a wider sample size involving entire school district. Research is not vague at all. If Twin brook zones are unwilling to move and keep FARMs level very high in Twin brook then only option E is left which does very little for FARMs. Option E doesn't attempt to do anything, but simply keeps all FARMs kids in their current schools in other 4 schools.

Tragic part is that even option E is unacceptable to many, including a council member in city of Rockville, Mark Pierzchala. He has advocated for neighborhood argument in email which went to 100s of Rockville resident. Some one sent me a copy of that email. Not sure where City of Rockvill is headed with all this. I am going to follow up with Mayor's office.

Neighborhood argument pushed by a council member in city of Rockville, Mark Pierzchala does very little for integrating society. His stance is to actually widen the segregation from the current level. Not sure why he strongly supports segregation. Some groups need to pay attention here and make sure to raise this issue at all levels. Mark Pierzchala kind of folks used to rule 60 years back, but they should have no place in current time.

Whenever I see anyone using neighborhood argument and keeping neighborhood safe, my antenna goes up. Kids attending from outside is not going to make neighborhood unsafe. Many residents may not mean it for widening the segregation, but elected officials calling everyone to rally to widen the segregation should be troubling for everyone. Yes, he used worlds like protecting neighborhood, but we all get the meaning here. Neighborhoods don't need protection.

I didn't know about this. Can you post his email about protecting neighborhoods? I was in few earlier meetings of boundary study. I recall him advocating for Woodley Gardens to remain in CG, but that was pretty much ignored in Superintendent's recommendation. Now discussion has started again. I will be interested to see what arguments are used by Mark Pierzchala. Based on what you wrote it sounds inappropriate for an elected officials. Although everyone is free to voice their opinions. It's a free world.

He didn't send his letter as a private citizen. He actually used his position to talk as council person. Even as citizen, I won't expect an elected official to voice words like protecting Woodley Gardens or any neighborhood. Elected official pushing for protecting Woodley Gardens is absurd. Woodley Garden doesn't need any protection. I have many friends in that area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but yes you do look at this school and their scores because this isn’t about all other schools. It is about THIS cluster. And yes you do look at the needs of the people and not what is best on paper from vague research that doesn’t even come close to describing what is going on here. Twinbrook doesn’t want to be bussed 5 miles away from their neighborhood school and community center. Not at all.

Also, what research says bussing kids out of safe neighborhood schools to schools 5 miles away is easier for FARMS families and a positive outlook for kids? Please post that research.

What cluster do you live in where you think C and D would be a positive?

T2 to Ritchie Park and T5 to College Gardens are both likely in the 3-5 mile range.

Can you show many how many FARMs families are bused 5 miles in these options?

DP - Thanks for your reply. You can say that it's within 3 miles or it's within 5 miles. Don't say that it's within 3-5 miles leaves a big range here.

How about option D? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here? How about option E? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here?

Protecting neighborhood camp is opposing even D and E.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but yes you do look at this school and their scores because this isn’t about all other schools. It is about THIS cluster. And yes you do look at the needs of the people and not what is best on paper from vague research that doesn’t even come close to describing what is going on here. Twinbrook doesn’t want to be bussed 5 miles away from their neighborhood school and community center. Not at all.

Also, what research says bussing kids out of safe neighborhood schools to schools 5 miles away is easier for FARMS families and a positive outlook for kids? Please post that research.

What cluster do you live in where you think C and D would be a positive?

T2 to Ritchie Park and T5 to College Gardens are both likely in the 3-5 mile range.

Can you show many how many FARMs families are bused 5 miles in these options?

DP - Thanks for your reply. You can say that it's within 3 miles or it's within 5 miles. Don't say that it's within 3-5 miles leaves a big range here.

How about option D? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here? How about option E? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here?

Protecting neighborhood camp is opposing even D and E.

D is a horrible option for Twinbrook families. D and E keeps a walkable zone to the new school bused to a farther away school. No other school cluster in MCPS buses walkers to a different school.

FARMS families in Twinbrook are part of the "protecting neighborhood camp." Who exactly are you trying to help here by going against what the people you claim to be helping want? That is paternalism at it's finest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but yes you do look at this school and their scores because this isn’t about all other schools. It is about THIS cluster. And yes you do look at the needs of the people and not what is best on paper from vague research that doesn’t even come close to describing what is going on here. Twinbrook doesn’t want to be bussed 5 miles away from their neighborhood school and community center. Not at all.

Also, what research says bussing kids out of safe neighborhood schools to schools 5 miles away is easier for FARMS families and a positive outlook for kids? Please post that research.

What cluster do you live in where you think C and D would be a positive?

T2 to Ritchie Park and T5 to College Gardens are both likely in the 3-5 mile range.

Can you show many how many FARMs families are bused 5 miles in these options?

DP - Thanks for your reply. You can say that it's within 3 miles or it's within 5 miles. Don't say that it's within 3-5 miles leaves a big range here.

How about option D? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here? How about option E? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here?

Protecting neighborhood camp is opposing even D and E.

D is a horrible option for Twinbrook families. D and E keeps a walkable zone to the new school bused to a farther away school. No other school cluster in MCPS buses walkers to a different school.

FARMS families in Twinbrook are part of the "protecting neighborhood camp." Who exactly are you trying to help here by going against what the people you claim to be helping want? That is paternalism at it's finest.

There are many examples of kids taking bus to go to another school even if they live near a school. That's within MCPS. You can look at maps and you will find countless examples.

We did an outreach program in Twinbrook and many would prefer to go to a higher performing schools. We also showed them the research explaining how they will benefit from going to a more affluent school. Did you even talk to TB families? Also why are you so much in support for widening the segregation?

D is a perfectly fine option in RM cluster. You didn't reply to my question about how many miles FARMs kids are getting bused in D and E? You are now saying that let's reject even E that means widening the segregation. E doesn't really push for integration, but just keeps all FARMs kids at their current school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, what research says bussing kids out of safe neighborhood schools to schools 5 miles away .....

No school belongs to any Neighborhood. MCPS owns all schools.

Safe Neighborhood schools?? Will those safe neighborhood schools become unsafe when some outside kids come to make neighborhood more integrated?

I said it earlier, this neighborhood argument has been used by many to maintain segregation. Earlier it was about race and now it's about money.

I said safe because any research done on bussing away from neighborhood school for a positive impact was due to unsafe conditions for students. Violence, poor school conditions, areas not safe to walk, etc... there is ZERO research that bussing kids further is a positive to the family or child. And since all of the families polled at Twinbrook mention walkability and proximity as their main concern and 0 of them were concerned with diversity or poverty, I would think THEIR voice is more important than out of cluster parents are interested in.

All of these 5 schools are in safe secure neighborhoods. All current 4 schools have similar test scores across the board for FARMS. All of these schools are teaching the same education in a good environment. 80% of those polled (FARMS and non-FARMS) said proximity was #1 concern for school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should focus on bridging the achievement gaps as much as possible and then make sure that capacity is not crossing in any school. That will take care of boundary assignment. Everything else is noise.

Diversity and proximity, if not related to achievement gaps, are not going to help any student. Finals outcome for students should get the most emphasis.

I think option C or D is the best for closing the achievement gaps. By not seriously considering these two options . MCPS will simply show that achievement gaps can be widened and widening it doesn't matter for MCPS.

I am not from RM cluster, but I am closely following this FARMs debate in RM cluster. It's good that it became a point of discussion.

RM cluster is completely diverse in every way and thriving. They all go to the same schools in middle amd high. If you have issues with MCPS closing the achievement gap by bussing kids miles further to other schools, by all means nominate your family to do it. Let’s get the W clusters with less than 5% FARMS in every cluster School on board to be bussed our and kids from FARMS bussed in.

The only way bussing kids further works is with OPTIONAL programs and charters. You can not force families miles away in some areas and not most others to be “kinda PC” and look good. Then not do it county wide. You can’t bus kids out of walkable zones county-wide. So why allow it for RP2.

Can anyone post any other cluster who can walk to their elementary and instead is bussed further?

I love outsides chiming in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

D is a horrible option for Twinbrook families. D and E keeps a walkable zone to the new school bused to a farther away school. No other school cluster in MCPS buses walkers to a different school.

FARMS families in Twinbrook are part of the "protecting neighborhood camp." Who exactly are you trying to help here by going against what the people you claim to be helping want? That is paternalism at it's finest.

We talked to 37 parents in TB in the last 5 days. Most of them didn't like option C. Many were fine with option D , but many were opposed to it. ZERO person had any opposition to E.

Many were not aware of advantage of going to more affluent schools, but after showing the data 27 of them agreed with the idea and ready to support option D.

Based on our talk - Twinbrook is not for "protecting neighborhood camp." They simply face hardship by going to different school and like most parents don't want to change schools. "protecting neighborhood camp" tag applies to folks like council member in city of Rockville, Mark Pierzchala, who abuse their position to widen the segregation. Woodley Gardens doesn't need any protection and face zero hardship by moving and yet he wants to protect Woodley Gardens. We were horrified by testimonies of Woodley Garden residents to protect their neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, what research says bussing kids out of safe neighborhood schools to schools 5 miles away .....

No school belongs to any Neighborhood. MCPS owns all schools.

Safe Neighborhood schools?? Will those safe neighborhood schools become unsafe when some outside kids come to make neighborhood more integrated?

I said it earlier, this neighborhood argument has been used by many to maintain segregation. Earlier it was about race and now it's about money.

I said safe because any research done on bussing away from neighborhood school for a positive impact was due to unsafe conditions for students. Violence, poor school conditions, areas not safe to walk, etc... there is ZERO research that bussing kids further is a positive to the family or child. And since all of the families polled at Twinbrook mention walkability and proximity as their main concern and 0 of them were concerned with diversity or poverty, I would think THEIR voice is more important than out of cluster parents are interested in.

All of these 5 schools are in safe secure neighborhoods. All current 4 schools have similar test scores across the board for FARMS. All of these schools are teaching the same education in a good environment. 80% of those polled (FARMS and non-FARMS) said proximity was #1 concern for school.

DP - Link for research is done within MCPS. You can sit down and read or bury your head in sand and ignore it. There is clear evidence that FARMs kids benefits from attending affluent schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should focus on bridging the achievement gaps as much as possible and then make sure that capacity is not crossing in any school. That will take care of boundary assignment. Everything else is noise.

Diversity and proximity, if not related to achievement gaps, are not going to help any student. Finals outcome for students should get the most emphasis.

I think option C or D is the best for closing the achievement gaps. By not seriously considering these two options . MCPS will simply show that achievement gaps can be widened and widening it doesn't matter for MCPS.

I am not from RM cluster, but I am closely following this FARMs debate in RM cluster. It's good that it became a point of discussion.

RM cluster is completely diverse in every way and thriving. They all go to the same schools in middle amd high.

Yah, they go to the same school in Middle school after facing huge disadvantage in their first 6 formative years. Look at the research and don't focus on your own benefit all the time.

Not sure why so simple point is not getting understood here. Rockville being diverse is not the point. Individual schools providing different environment to all FARMs kids is the point here.

Widening or narrowing the Achievement gaps equation is simple.

A,B - Widens the achievement gaps
C,D - Narrows the achievement gaps
E - Keeps it same.

MCPS should make every effort to narrow the achievement gaps as long as it's not causing too much hardship. Only option C causes too much hardship. You guys have a unique situation where you can either work for narrowing the achievement gaps or simply keep arguing about protecting Woodley Gardens or other neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but yes you do look at this school and their scores because this isn’t about all other schools. It is about THIS cluster. And yes you do look at the needs of the people and not what is best on paper from vague research that doesn’t even come close to describing what is going on here. Twinbrook doesn’t want to be bussed 5 miles away from their neighborhood school and community center. Not at all.

Also, what research says bussing kids out of safe neighborhood schools to schools 5 miles away is easier for FARMS families and a positive outlook for kids? Please post that research.

What cluster do you live in where you think C and D would be a positive?

T2 to Ritchie Park and T5 to College Gardens are both likely in the 3-5 mile range.

Can you show many how many FARMs families are bused 5 miles in these options?

DP - Thanks for your reply. You can say that it's within 3 miles or it's within 5 miles. Don't say that it's within 3-5 miles leaves a big range here.

How about option D? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here? How about option E? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here?

Protecting neighborhood camp is opposing even D and E.

D is a horrible option for Twinbrook families. D and E keeps a walkable zone to the new school bused to a farther away school. No other school cluster in MCPS buses walkers to a different school.

FARMS families in Twinbrook are part of the "protecting neighborhood camp." Who exactly are you trying to help here by going against what the people you claim to be helping want? That is paternalism at it's finest.

There are many examples of kids taking bus to go to another school even if they live near a school. That's within MCPS. You can look at maps and you will find countless examples.

We did an outreach program in Twinbrook and many would prefer to go to a higher performing schools. We also showed them the research explaining how they will benefit from going to a more affluent school. Did you even talk to TB families? Also why are you so much in support for widening the segregation?

D is a perfectly fine option in RM cluster. You didn't reply to my question about how many miles FARMs kids are getting bused in D and E? You are now saying that let's reject even E that means widening the segregation. E doesn't really push for integration, but just keeps all FARMs kids at their current school.

I live in an MPDU in an economically integrated neighborhood in Rockville. Please explain to me again how I am in support of economic segregation??

E doesn't keep all FARMS kids going to their current school - otherwise there would be a 0% FARMS rate at RM ES 5. It does keep busing FARMS kids from RP2 to Ritchie Park, but it moves FARMS kids from RP5 to RM ES 5, so again, your statement about not moving children doesn't hold true.

There is no other school in MCPS that buses children from a walkable zone in one school to a different school. If you can show examples to the contrary, please do. MCPS has not been able to come up with one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but yes you do look at this school and their scores because this isn’t about all other schools. It is about THIS cluster. And yes you do look at the needs of the people and not what is best on paper from vague research that doesn’t even come close to describing what is going on here. Twinbrook doesn’t want to be bussed 5 miles away from their neighborhood school and community center. Not at all.

Also, what research says bussing kids out of safe neighborhood schools to schools 5 miles away is easier for FARMS families and a positive outlook for kids? Please post that research.

What cluster do you live in where you think C and D would be a positive?

T2 to Ritchie Park and T5 to College Gardens are both likely in the 3-5 mile range.

Can you show many how many FARMs families are bused 5 miles in these options?

DP - Thanks for your reply. You can say that it's within 3 miles or it's within 5 miles. Don't say that it's within 3-5 miles leaves a big range here.

How about option D? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here? How about option E? How many miles FARMs kids are bused here?

Protecting neighborhood camp is opposing even D and E.

D is a horrible option for Twinbrook families. D and E keeps a walkable zone to the new school bused to a farther away school. No other school cluster in MCPS buses walkers to a different school.

FARMS families in Twinbrook are part of the "protecting neighborhood camp." Who exactly are you trying to help here by going against what the people you claim to be helping want? That is paternalism at it's finest.

There are many examples of kids taking bus to go to another school even if they live near a school. That's within MCPS. You can look at maps and you will find countless examples.

We did an outreach program in Twinbrook and many would prefer to go to a higher performing schools. We also showed them the research explaining how they will benefit from going to a more affluent school. Did you even talk to TB families? Also why are you so much in support for widening the segregation?

D is a perfectly fine option in RM cluster. You didn't reply to my question about how many miles FARMs kids are getting bused in D and E? You are now saying that let's reject even E that means widening the segregation. E doesn't really push for integration, but just keeps all FARMs kids at their current school.

I live in an MPDU in an economically integrated neighborhood in Rockville. Please explain to me again how I am in support of economic segregation??

E doesn't keep all FARMS kids going to their current school - otherwise there would be a 0% FARMS rate at RM ES 5. It does keep busing FARMS kids from RP2 to Ritchie Park, but it moves FARMS kids from RP5 to RM ES 5, so again, your statement about not moving children doesn't hold true.

There is no other school in MCPS that buses children from a walkable zone in one school to a different school. If you can show examples to the contrary, please do. MCPS has not been able to come up with one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should focus on bridging the achievement gaps as much as possible and then make sure that capacity is not crossing in any school. That will take care of boundary assignment. Everything else is noise.

Diversity and proximity, if not related to achievement gaps, are not going to help any student. Finals outcome for students should get the most emphasis.

I think option C or D is the best for closing the achievement gaps. By not seriously considering these two options . MCPS will simply show that achievement gaps can be widened and widening it doesn't matter for MCPS.

I am not from RM cluster, but I am closely following this FARMs debate in RM cluster. It's good that it became a point of discussion.

Have you looked at PARCC scores or other standardized testing in each of these schools? If not, what specific data are you basing your achievement gap argument on??

You don't have to look at each of these schools. You can look at research done within entire MCPS or research done in any other school system to come to conclusion. That will give you a good sample size.

It's a simple conclusion. FARMs kids do best when they are in affluent schools. Their reading scores and math scores keep getting better when compared to FARMs kids who attend schools with high FARMs rate.

Interesting times for MCPS here and it will set the tone for future boundary decisions. If MCPS exclusively focuses on neighborhood then they will have to follow it for all other boundaries in future.

Incorrect. FARMS kids do best WHEN INTEGRATED within neighborhoods and attend their local schools that do not have high FARMS.

1. RM5 does not have high FARMS. Not even close to being a focus school, let alone a title 1 School. They are below the county average ES farms rates.

2. MCPS is already integrating FARMS kids in new neighborhoods. King Farm, Fallsgrove, Park Potomac, Rockville Town Center all have FARMS. This is exactly what the article is talking about.

3. None of the research says that bussings kids out of their neighborhood school to a further one benefits the child or family for ANY farms rate, let alone the 5-10% difference between between RP and RM5.

4. FARMS families in RM cluster that were interviewed door to door all said proximity and walkability were the MOST important for various reasons. No car, ability to pick up sick child, take a child in late, ability to attend school events, childcare, etc... These were even families further out than the 1 mile cut off. They still needed/wanted the closest school to walk to.

5. Jones Lane Elementary has a boundary with high FARMS kids being bussed in. They have had such a hard time keeping these families involved and kids coming into school at all (missed bus means no school) that the school is using PTA funds to allow families to use Uber to get to school. It isn’t working that great. Why? Humiliation. Who wants to be the family using PTA money to get a free Uber to bring your kid in late or pick up a sick kid. All these well off families mean well but they just don’t get it.

For all of these reasons above, on top of the fact that there is a local community center in walking distance for cheaper childcare, I believe RP2 should be zoned for their walkable neighborhood school RM5. It is what works best for FARMS and non-FARMS families. It will integrate them instead of splitting RP5 up JUST because of some apartments. Talk about humiliation. Talk about being a target. It makes me sad this entire board is so clueless. Sitting on their 1K laptops deciding the fate of others to look like they care. They know nothing about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

D is a horrible option for Twinbrook families. D and E keeps a walkable zone to the new school bused to a farther away school. No other school cluster in MCPS buses walkers to a different school.

FARMS families in Twinbrook are part of the "protecting neighborhood camp." Who exactly are you trying to help here by going against what the people you claim to be helping want? That is paternalism at it's finest.

We talked to 37 parents in TB in the last 5 days. Most of them didn't like option C. Many were fine with option D , but many were opposed to it. ZERO person had any opposition to E.

Many were not aware of advantage of going to more affluent schools, but after showing the data 27 of them agreed with the idea and ready to support option D.

Based on our talk - Twinbrook is not for "protecting neighborhood camp." They simply face hardship by going to different school and like most parents don't want to change schools. "protecting neighborhood camp" tag applies to folks like council member in city of Rockville, Mark Pierzchala, who abuse their position to widen the segregation. Woodley Gardens doesn't need any protection and face zero hardship by moving and yet he wants to protect Woodley Gardens. We were horrified by testimonies of Woodley Garden residents to protect their neighborhood.

If course no one at Twinbrook has an opposition to E. That option keeps their community together, which is what they want!

[Anonymous]

T2 to Ritchie Park is between 4.2 and 5.4 miles depending on what bus stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I live in an MPDU in an economically integrated neighborhood in Rockville. Please explain to me again how I am in support of economic segregation??

Where do you live in economically integrated MPDU?

We have talked to over 50+ FARMs parents . If you want, we can come to your zone and talk to you and any other families.