RANT: Teachers, why are you so whiny?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really funny. In my neighborhood, when I run into the moms at the store or at the park or at camp drop off, they are dying. You would not believe the moaning and complaining about their own kids. Several are families of kids I have taught. By August, they are practically begging for me to go back to work because they cannot handle their own children. And people say teachers complain, hahaha!

Nope. I always look forward to the summer when I haven't got to deal with the incessant demands from the teachers and the meaningless busy work homework.

For every parent that complains about homework there is a parent that complains you don't give enough homework. There is no way to win. So don't have your kid do the busy work and ask the teacher for the specific purpose of the homework assignment. They should have a reasonable answer. If not, don't do it.

I think that teaches a worse lesson, so my kids do the busy work anyway. They do not want to be that kind of special, they just have to come up with creative ways to make the busy work more interesting. When the teacher complains about that too, its annoying as hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really funny. In my neighborhood, when I run into the moms at the store or at the park or at camp drop off, they are dying. You would not believe the moaning and complaining about their own kids. Several are families of kids I have taught. By August, they are practically begging for me to go back to work because they cannot handle their own children. And people say teachers complain, hahaha!

Nope. I always look forward to the summer when I haven't got to deal with the incessant demands from the teachers and the meaningless busy work homework.

For every parent that complains about homework there is a parent that complains you don't give enough homework. There is no way to win. So don't have your kid do the busy work and ask the teacher for the specific purpose of the homework assignment. They should have a reasonable answer. If not, don't do it.

I think that teaches a worse lesson, so my kids do the busy work anyway. They do not want to be that kind of special, they just have to come up with creative ways to make the busy work more interesting. When the teacher complains about that too, its annoying as hell.

I teach in an elementary school. Many schools have gone to assigning no homework. We assign very little. Usually we assign none. What does get assigned is definitely not busywork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it is such an easy, well-paid profession, why doesn't everyone become a teacher? It seems strange that we would have a nation-wide teacher shortage if this was such an attractive job. This is from the Washington Post in January:

This past fall, school districts nationwide faced serious teacher shortages that left many schools scrambling to find qualified teachers. Today, halfway through the academic year, many students are being taught by a temporary teacher because their schools could not fill positions in time — in Arizona, for example, more than 1 in 5 teaching positions remained unfilled four months into the school year, and an estimated 20 percent to 30 percent of teachers in urban school systems are hired after the school year starts. Projections suggest that the national teacher shortage is only going to get worse, particularly in hard-to-staff subjects such as mathematics, science and special education.

Teachers’s pay vary widely across districts. Eg, DCPS vs Fairfax

[Anonymous]

Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

You are an idiot, and you clearly don't know any good teachers. I am not one of the "newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed", and I spend HOURS in the evenings going over student compositions and writing meaningful feedback. I spend all of one day each weekend on planning, too. This is what teachers do at my school, and at this caliber of school (otherwise we wouldn't be employed here). I am sorry that you have only been exposed to poor teachers and schools, but this hardly qualifies you to make sweeping generalizations about the entire profession.

[Anonymous]

I am an ES teacher, spend hours outside of school planning, grading, etc. I like my summer and winter break but some of it is spent taking courses for professional development and towards a Masters degree. I also do not complain as I chose to be a teacher and had another career before staying at home to parent and going back to college to join the education workforce. I also do not live in a Southern state. I am from Texas and would never work there. My teacher friends there are awesome, seem to work way harder than in Maryland, and get paid half of what I make, have no union, bad insurance, and no maternity leave aka Sick Leave Bank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

It’s not a 9 month work year, it’s 10. If you live in the Denver Metro area I’m sure you know that housing costs have grown very quickly while wages have not. For people who own their homes and have been working for 10 plus years this may not be an issue. Many teachers hold advanced degrees or additional certification, with that often comes student loans, making it even worse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/



https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

You are an idiot, and you clearly don't know any good teachers. I am not one of the "newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed", and I spend HOURS in the evenings going over student compositions and writing meaningful feedback. I spend all of one day each weekend on planning, too. This is what teachers do at my school, and at this caliber of school (otherwise we wouldn't be employed here). I am sorry that you have only been exposed to poor teachers and schools, but this hardly qualifies you to make sweeping generalizations about the entire profession.

Op is not an idiot! I complete agree with the lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

It’s not a 9 month work year, it’s 10. If you live in the Denver Metro area I’m sure you know that housing costs have grown very quickly while wages have not. For people who own their homes and have been working for 10 plus years this may not be an issue. Many teachers hold advanced degrees or additional certification, with that often comes student loans, making it even worse

I disagree. Average two months for summer break (conservatively, to account for in-service days etc.). About a week for thanksgiving. One to two weeks for winter break. A week for spring break. Add every possible state and federal holiday. Compare that to the vast majority of the working population who get 2 weeks paid (if lucky). Respectfully, teachers are not working full time 10 months a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

You are an idiot, and you clearly don't know any good teachers. I am not one of the "newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed", and I spend HOURS in the evenings going over student compositions and writing meaningful feedback. I spend all of one day each weekend on planning, too. This is what teachers do at my school, and at this caliber of school (otherwise we wouldn't be employed here). I am sorry that you have only been exposed to poor teachers and schools, but this hardly qualifies you to make sweeping generalizations about the entire profession.

I sincerely hope you teach your students better conflict management and debate skills than you are demonstrating in your post. I am sorry you disagree with me, but grow up. I wish you would have taken the time to look at the links that I posted, which discuss the nature of analyzing teacher compensation - the challenges that imposes and the imperfection of averages. I do not think that ALL teachers are sitting on clouds eating bonbons, but statistically, more will be closer to the mean than farther from it. Perhaps you work at a very challenging school, work incredible hours, and are underpaid. If that is the case, you should be better compensated. But, your reality is not the reality of the majority of teachers, many (if not most) of whom I am sure are excellent at their job. I personally know many fantastic teachers and they seem to enjoy their vacations without the encumbrance of toting along lesson plans. The fact remains that teachers do at least as well (on average) as other similarly educated professionals when actual work time and benefits are accounted for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

It’s not a 9 month work year, it’s 10. If you live in the Denver Metro area I’m sure you know that housing costs have grown very quickly while wages have not. For people who own their homes and have been working for 10 plus years this may not be an issue. Many teachers hold advanced degrees or additional certification, with that often comes student loans, making it even worse

I would also add that as a new lawyer in Denver in the 2010's, I had roommates in my 20's. That is the reality of living and working in the "big" city. I know plenty of folks who are specially trained, have loans and certifications, and who make the same base salary as the teachers listed in the recent CNN article (https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/10/us/denver-teacher-strike-multiple-jobs/index.html). They make this salary without the benefit of nearly the same paid vacation, pension, or other benefits of working for the school district. Do I agree that the housing and salary market is nearing a breaking point in Denver - HECK YES. Do I agree it is already broken in places like Seattle and San Francisco - HECK YES. But do I agree that tax payers should be required to subsidize one profession over other similarly situated folks who are struggling - no, I just don't. The most frustrating thing to me about the teacher strike is it could be about something so much bigger - about the big inequality issues causing strain on working parents, students, and teachers alike. But, in reality, it's just a bunch of folks who think they deserve a raise when the statistics don't support it.

[Anonymous]

Almost every single teacher I know complains about pay

You know the pay scale going in idiots

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

It’s not a 9 month work year, it’s 10. If you live in the Denver Metro area I’m sure you know that housing costs have grown very quickly while wages have not. For people who own their homes and have been working for 10 plus years this may not be an issue. Many teachers hold advanced degrees or additional certification, with that often comes student loans, making it even worse

I disagree. Average two months for summer break (conservatively, to account for in-service days etc.). About a week for thanksgiving. One to two weeks for winter break. A week for spring break. Add every possible state and federal holiday. Compare that to the vast majority of the working population who get 2 weeks paid (if lucky). Respectfully, teachers are not working full time 10 months a year.

We have a week off for Thanksgiving? OMG. All of these years I've been showing up on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of Thanksgiving week. Funny but everyone else I work with and all of the students show up too. The only teachers I know who get a week off at Thanksgiving are at the Catholic high school I went to way back when. Maybe other private schools do too. I don't know anyone who works in public schools who gets 2 weeks off for winter break. Many teachers are either working on their required Master's degree or taking classes to be recertified. My mom was a nurse and she would just show up at nursing conventions and go to a few meetings, get some free meals and then go on some cheap excursions. Boom, she is recertified. We have to take graduate level coursework every 5 yrs to be recertified. That is why teachers often end up with the equivalent of 2 Master's degrees by the time they retire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

It’s not a 9 month work year, it’s 10. If you live in the Denver Metro area I’m sure you know that housing costs have grown very quickly while wages have not. For people who own their homes and have been working for 10 plus years this may not be an issue. Many teachers hold advanced degrees or additional certification, with that often comes student loans, making it even worse

I disagree. Average two months for summer break (conservatively, to account for in-service days etc.). About a week for thanksgiving. One to two weeks for winter break. A week for spring break. Add every possible state and federal holiday. Compare that to the vast majority of the working population who get 2 weeks paid (if lucky). Respectfully, teachers are not working full time 10 months a year.

We have a week off for Thanksgiving? OMG. All of these years I've been showing up on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of Thanksgiving week. Funny but everyone else I work with and all of the students show up too. The only teachers I know who get a week off at Thanksgiving are at the Catholic high school I went to way back when. Maybe other private schools do too. I don't know anyone who works in public schools who gets 2 weeks off for winter break. Many teachers are either working on their required Master's degree or taking classes to be recertified. My mom was a nurse and she would just show up at nursing conventions and go to a few meetings, get some free meals and then go on some cheap excursions. Boom, she is recertified. We have to take graduate level coursework every 5 yrs to be recertified. That is why teachers often end up with the equivalent of 2 Master's degrees by the time they retire.

"About" a week for Thanksgiving. "One OR two" weeks for winter break. I was trying to avoid the "over generalizations" everyone seems to be so upset about. Point is, teachers get substantially more paid vacation than the typical professional worker. Also, how many masters degrees are teachers getting? I could see an argument that getting a masters degree means a lot of extra hours for the couple years a teacher is pursuing the degree while working, but am I to believe that teachers are in a perpetual masters program? Additionally, teachers are far from the only profession in that position. I know plenty of night-law students who hold down paralegal, legal assistant, police, accounting, or nursing gigs during the day. They work a lot of hours, but nobody is clamoring to give them a raise. Teachers are also not the only profession required recertify. Maybe nurses have it easy, though I doubt that is truly the case given the constant flow of medical advancements. As an attorney, I am required to complete substantial CLE's each year to keep my license (and if you wont accept generalizations about teachers, please don't assume all we do is smoke cigars and play golf during conferences - we don't - at least not those of us in the government sector). Doctors must repeatedly pass the boards. Electricians must past career-critical exams at the apprentice, journeyman, and masters level. I understand and agree that teachers work is hard, and is valuable, but I think some teachers need to take a step back and really take some perspective. Lastly, I am sure that many new teachers spend substantial time working on lesson plans. But, honestly, how many veteran teachers spend each day of their vacations, weekends, and summers truly toiling over lesson plans for the next year? I am not trying to devalue teachers - but it is just in my nature to push back on the many in this post who would have me believe that teachers need a raise because they work 100 hour weeks and never have a day to themselves. My dad said he walked up hill to school both ways through the blinding snow - I didn't believe him either. The worst part is that there are far more effective and credible arguments to be made for why teachers deserve a raise - and I am not necessary opposed to those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Skip to links below if you want to read research on this issue. Continue if you want my personal perspective as an attorney who is from a family of elementary and high school teachers.

YES. Thank you. Teachers are striking here in Denver now, carrying ridiculous signs and complaining about pay. The complaint that really gets me is the assertion that most teachers spend their evenings, weekends, vacations, and summers grueling over grades and lesson plans. That claim is simply disingenuous for anyone other than the newest, most obsessively dedicated, or poorly time-managed teachers. My brother is a teacher, lives frugally, and spends his vacations and summers traveling until in-service a few days before classes start. My sister is a teacher and is married to another teacher. Between the two of them, they do quite well and seem to enjoy their fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks just fine. YES, teachers have a tough job dealing with unruly kids and parents. YES, they have to take work home from time to time. But guess what, so do the rest of us, and we do it 50 weeks a year. I am an attorney who works in litigation, so the "stress" of having to spend an evening at a school sporting event (as opposed to hunched over a computer finalizing a brief at 10pm) just isn't all that convincing. And don't get me started about all the hours spent working outside the office. Moreover, when you look at my per hour pay it is not much different than a high school teacher with equal years experience (controlled for 9mo vs 12mo work-year), and I don't have nearly as good of a pension. Fact is, $50K for 9mos work in a profession that requires a bachelors or masters (in education - not organic chemistry, law, medicine, or computer science) is a pretty good gig.

http://www.aei.org/publication/no-teachers-are-not-underpaid/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#1dca873631af

I think they're reasonably well compensated for one of the easiest majors out there. Most teaching staff attends less selective schools and score lower on average than most other majors out there. There are exceptions to the rule of course.

https://qz.com/334926/your-college-major-is-a-pretty-good-indication-of-how-smart-you-are/