Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The ability to learn new areas of the CFR quickly and apply it to the task at hand is a highly transferable skill within the federal Gvt. The production requirement just shows how quickly and efficiently one can work [even if they aren’t making production but are close]. I know agencies that love getting prior BVA-attorneys because they know they work quickly and efficiently and are used to navigating complex areas of the law. Doesn’t matter that they are switching to another area of the law - if you can grasp veterans benefits law, you can learn anything.

Not PP, and I have never worked at BVA, but over the course of my 25 year legal career, I have worked at five different Federal agencies and have been a first line supervisor at two. Generally, that is not how Federal hiring managers think of things. They would prefer that people have experience in the particular area of law for which they are being hired, not generalized ability to apply sections of the CFR that have nothing to do with the practice area for which they are being hired. Also, any legal positions that are not solely writing-based will generally want experience in other areas of legal practice (e.g. providing advice to clients at meetings, taking depositions and discovery, negotiating with opposing counsel, regulation review, comments on legistlation).

I have no view on whether BVA is a good place to work, but it would not be considered transferrable.

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you completely. I always thought it was common sense that hiring managers want someone with specific experience in the field, rather than a generalized ability to apply the CFR to unrelated areas of the law. But, apparently our friend over there thinks that hiring managers at DOJ, SEC, EPA, DOT, etc., love hiring BVA attorneys who can quickly review hundreds of pages of medical records and the CFR to determine whether someone has a service connected disability. I'm sure that the ranks of the Office of the Solicitor General and DOJ Civil Division and Civil Rights Division are teeming with former BVA attorneys, as they have have a well honed ability to quickly apply the CFR. Alas, in the real world, this isn't the case.

In the real world, the only federal agency that loves BVA attorneys is the Social Security Administration, which also handles disability benefits matters. Many SSA attorneys transfer to BVA for the GS-14 potential. A lot of BVA attorneys also transfer to SSA. But, in transferring to SSA, BVA attorneys go from a job that has GS-14 potential to one that has GS-12 potential. This is not a good exit option in my book. BVA provides no transferable skills - some BVA attorneys are able to transfer to more prestigious agencies because they have prior litigation experience or prior related experience and not because of the skills gained at BVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The ability to learn new areas of the CFR quickly and apply it to the task at hand is a highly transferable skill within the federal Gvt. The production requirement just shows how quickly and efficiently one can work [even if they aren’t making production but are close]. I know agencies that love getting prior BVA-attorneys because they know they work quickly and efficiently and are used to navigating complex areas of the law. Doesn’t matter that they are switching to another area of the law - if you can grasp veterans benefits law, you can learn anything.

Not PP, and I have never worked at BVA, but over the course of my 25 year legal career, I have worked at five different Federal agencies and have been a first line supervisor at two. Generally, that is not how Federal hiring managers think of things. They would prefer that people have experience in the particular area of law for which they are being hired, not generalized ability to apply sections of the CFR that have nothing to do with the practice area for which they are being hired. Also, any legal positions that are not solely writing-based will generally want experience in other areas of legal practice (e.g. providing advice to clients at meetings, taking depositions and discovery, negotiating with opposing counsel, regulation review, comments on legistlation).

I have no view on whether BVA is a good place to work, but it would not be considered transferrable.

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you completely. I always thought it was common sense that hiring managers want someone with specific experience in the field, rather than a generalized ability to apply the CFR to unrelated areas of the law. But, apparently our friend over there thinks that hiring managers at DOJ, SEC, EPA, DOT, etc., love hiring BVA attorneys who can quickly review hundreds of pages of medical records and the CFR to determine whether someone has a service connected disability. I'm sure that the ranks of the Office of the Solicitor General and DOJ Civil Division and Civil Rights Division are teeming with former BVA attorneys, as they have have a well honed ability to quickly apply the CFR. Alas, in the real world, this isn't the case.

In the real world, the only federal agency that loves BVA attorneys is the Social Security Administration, which also handles disability benefits matters. Many SSA attorneys transfer to BVA for the GS-14 potential. A lot of BVA attorneys also transfer to SSA. But, in transferring to SSA, BVA attorneys go from a job that has GS-14 potential to one that has GS-12 potential. This is not a good exit option in my book. BVA provides no transferable skills - some BVA attorneys are able to transfer to more prestigious agencies because they have prior litigation experience or prior related experience and not because of the skills gained at BVA.

This. Come to BVA with prior experience? Great, use your prior experience to get out. But your experience at BVA won't help you get a job anywhere other than SSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the revolving door has changed. In fact, the Board hired many new attorneys this year. Also, keep in mind that due to the pandemic, hiring has slowed. Because veterans benefits law is a niche area of law, many BVA attorneys don't have transferable skills (unless they have prior experience) and are stuck at the Board.

It really sounds like you don’t know much about it, which is probably why you are the only one talking on this thread. And your response as to how it is at the board now is to go cut and paste some Glassdoor posts? And then, dig around indeed and come up with posts from 2019. That is so sad.

I’m sorry someone hurt you so bad. it’s not even clear you ever worked at BVA, because you don’t seem to have the inside scoop on what is happening at the board. I really hope you find a good fit for you and something else to spend your time on than trying to frighten people away from an agency. It’s a job - some bosses are the worst, some people aren’t good at it, some people don’t like it. This applies to all jobs everywhere.

Except for the law clerk class of recent law grads, nearly everyone coming to the board has prior experience in either fed Gvt, state/local Gvt, military, or private practice. And even for the law clerks, the ability to learn new niche areas of law is not a stumbling block to finding work at other agencies - do you know other federal agency attorneys? The ability to learn new areas of the CFR quickly and apply it to the task at hand is a highly transferable skill within the federal Gvt. The production requirement just shows how quickly and efficiently one can work [even if they aren’t making production but are close]. I know agencies that love getting prior BVA-attorneys because they know they work quickly and efficiently and are used to navigating complex areas of the law. Doesn’t matter that they are switching to another area of the law - if you can grasp veterans benefits law, you can learn anything.

Some attorneys become lifers at their first agency, but many bounce all around to different agencies within the federal government or go to private practice or in-house. If you can’t do good work there, work on getting out sooner rather than later. There’s no requirement you stay for a certain amount of time; there is no contract that you must remain for a year. I’ve known attorneys who weren’t doing well at BVA and left before their first year was up and found a much better match.

I am hoping you find peace this holiday season and move on from whatever bad experience you had at BVA.

lol. you are either a management sympathizer or are seriously delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recently interviewed for this position and took a subsequent writing test. If anyone is in a similar position, have you heard back either way about an offer?

In addition, to those that currently hold this position, could you describe a typical day? Finally, on other websites I've seen a lot of negativity so please share your experience, level of job satisfaction, and anything else you would find helpful for someone interested in this position. Thank you in advance!

So.....did you take the job OP?

[Anonymous]

New posting for this position today. Note to everyone on USAJOBS -if u see a vacancy open long-term like this, generally avoid.

[Anonymous]

The Board generally posts vacancy announcements like this at the start of every year so that management can quickly replace attorneys who are fired/forced to resign. It’s all about putting warm bodies in seats at the Board’s massive attorney cube farm.

[Anonymous]

I say cube farm, but the workspaces aren’t even cubicles. They’re more akin to call center like open spaces with rows and rows of attorneys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I say cube farm, but the workspaces aren’t even cubicles. They’re more akin to call center like open spaces with rows and rows of attorneys.

library study carrels i think. Although when I started they would warehouse you anywhere. 8 people sitting inside of a supply closet, for example. great working conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say cube farm, but the workspaces aren’t even cubicles. They’re more akin to call center like open spaces with rows and rows of attorneys.

library study carrels i think. Although when I started they would warehouse you anywhere. 8 people sitting inside of a supply closet, for example. great working conditions.

That’s not the worst part. I absolutely hate how managers at the Board constantly remind us how lucky we are to have jobs. They seem to assume that without our crappy BVA jobs, we would be doing doc review or living on the streets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New posting for this position today. Note to everyone on USAJOBS -if u see a vacancy open long-term like this, generally avoid.

They should hand out copies of this thread to anyone interviewing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The ability to learn new areas of the CFR quickly and apply it to the task at hand is a highly transferable skill within the federal Gvt. The production requirement just shows how quickly and efficiently one can work [even if they aren’t making production but are close]. I know agencies that love getting prior BVA-attorneys because they know they work quickly and efficiently and are used to navigating complex areas of the law. Doesn’t matter that they are switching to another area of the law - if you can grasp veterans benefits law, you can learn anything.

Not PP, and I have never worked at BVA, but over the course of my 25 year legal career, I have worked at five different Federal agencies and have been a first line supervisor at two. Generally, that is not how Federal hiring managers think of things. They would prefer that people have experience in the particular area of law for which they are being hired, not generalized ability to apply sections of the CFR that have nothing to do with the practice area for which they are being hired. Also, any legal positions that are not solely writing-based will generally want experience in other areas of legal practice (e.g. providing advice to clients at meetings, taking depositions and discovery, negotiating with opposing counsel, regulation review, comments on legistlation).

I have no view on whether BVA is a good place to work, but it would not be considered transferrable.

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you completely. I always thought it was common sense that hiring managers want someone with specific experience in the field, rather than a generalized ability to apply the CFR to unrelated areas of the law. But, apparently our friend over there thinks that hiring managers at DOJ, SEC, EPA, DOT, etc., love hiring BVA attorneys who can quickly review hundreds of pages of medical records and the CFR to determine whether someone has a service connected disability. I'm sure that the ranks of the Office of the Solicitor General and DOJ Civil Division and Civil Rights Division are teeming with former BVA attorneys, as they have have a well honed ability to quickly apply the CFR. Alas, in the real world, this isn't the case.

In the real world, the only federal agency that loves BVA attorneys is the Social Security Administration, which also handles disability benefits matters. Many SSA attorneys transfer to BVA for the GS-14 potential. A lot of BVA attorneys also transfer to SSA. But, in transferring to SSA, BVA attorneys go from a job that has GS-14 potential to one that has GS-12 potential. This is not a good exit option in my book. BVA provides no transferable skills - some BVA attorneys are able to transfer to more prestigious agencies because they have prior litigation experience or prior related experience and not because of the skills gained at BVA.

This. Come to BVA with prior experience? Great, use your prior experience to get out. But your experience at BVA won't help you get a job anywhere other than SSA.

I left BVA for another agency and BVA was my first job after law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The ability to learn new areas of the CFR quickly and apply it to the task at hand is a highly transferable skill within the federal Gvt. The production requirement just shows how quickly and efficiently one can work [even if they aren’t making production but are close]. I know agencies that love getting prior BVA-attorneys because they know they work quickly and efficiently and are used to navigating complex areas of the law. Doesn’t matter that they are switching to another area of the law - if you can grasp veterans benefits law, you can learn anything.

Not PP, and I have never worked at BVA, but over the course of my 25 year legal career, I have worked at five different Federal agencies and have been a first line supervisor at two. Generally, that is not how Federal hiring managers think of things. They would prefer that people have experience in the particular area of law for which they are being hired, not generalized ability to apply sections of the CFR that have nothing to do with the practice area for which they are being hired. Also, any legal positions that are not solely writing-based will generally want experience in other areas of legal practice (e.g. providing advice to clients at meetings, taking depositions and discovery, negotiating with opposing counsel, regulation review, comments on legistlation).

I have no view on whether BVA is a good place to work, but it would not be considered transferrable.

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you completely. I always thought it was common sense that hiring managers want someone with specific experience in the field, rather than a generalized ability to apply the CFR to unrelated areas of the law. But, apparently our friend over there thinks that hiring managers at DOJ, SEC, EPA, DOT, etc., love hiring BVA attorneys who can quickly review hundreds of pages of medical records and the CFR to determine whether someone has a service connected disability. I'm sure that the ranks of the Office of the Solicitor General and DOJ Civil Division and Civil Rights Division are teeming with former BVA attorneys, as they have have a well honed ability to quickly apply the CFR. Alas, in the real world, this isn't the case.

In the real world, the only federal agency that loves BVA attorneys is the Social Security Administration, which also handles disability benefits matters. Many SSA attorneys transfer to BVA for the GS-14 potential. A lot of BVA attorneys also transfer to SSA. But, in transferring to SSA, BVA attorneys go from a job that has GS-14 potential to one that has GS-12 potential. This is not a good exit option in my book. BVA provides no transferable skills - some BVA attorneys are able to transfer to more prestigious agencies because they have prior litigation experience or prior related experience and not because of the skills gained at BVA.

This. Come to BVA with prior experience? Great, use your prior experience to get out. But your experience at BVA won't help you get a job anywhere other than SSA.

I left BVA for another agency and BVA was my first job after law school.

Are you in a decision writing job at your new agency?

[Anonymous]

HHS hires a number of attorneys from SSA and BVA for their Medicare OMHA and DAB programs. Like SSA, these positions only go up to GS-12. However, the working environment is much better than SSA and BVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The ability to learn new areas of the CFR quickly and apply it to the task at hand is a highly transferable skill within the federal Gvt. The production requirement just shows how quickly and efficiently one can work [even if they aren’t making production but are close]. I know agencies that love getting prior BVA-attorneys because they know they work quickly and efficiently and are used to navigating complex areas of the law. Doesn’t matter that they are switching to another area of the law - if you can grasp veterans benefits law, you can learn anything.

Not PP, and I have never worked at BVA, but over the course of my 25 year legal career, I have worked at five different Federal agencies and have been a first line supervisor at two. Generally, that is not how Federal hiring managers think of things. They would prefer that people have experience in the particular area of law for which they are being hired, not generalized ability to apply sections of the CFR that have nothing to do with the practice area for which they are being hired. Also, any legal positions that are not solely writing-based will generally want experience in other areas of legal practice (e.g. providing advice to clients at meetings, taking depositions and discovery, negotiating with opposing counsel, regulation review, comments on legistlation).

I have no view on whether BVA is a good place to work, but it would not be considered transferrable.

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you completely. I always thought it was common sense that hiring managers want someone with specific experience in the field, rather than a generalized ability to apply the CFR to unrelated areas of the law. But, apparently our friend over there thinks that hiring managers at DOJ, SEC, EPA, DOT, etc., love hiring BVA attorneys who can quickly review hundreds of pages of medical records and the CFR to determine whether someone has a service connected disability. I'm sure that the ranks of the Office of the Solicitor General and DOJ Civil Division and Civil Rights Division are teeming with former BVA attorneys, as they have have a well honed ability to quickly apply the CFR. Alas, in the real world, this isn't the case.

In the real world, the only federal agency that loves BVA attorneys is the Social Security Administration, which also handles disability benefits matters. Many SSA attorneys transfer to BVA for the GS-14 potential. A lot of BVA attorneys also transfer to SSA. But, in transferring to SSA, BVA attorneys go from a job that has GS-14 potential to one that has GS-12 potential. This is not a good exit option in my book. BVA provides no transferable skills - some BVA attorneys are able to transfer to more prestigious agencies because they have prior litigation experience or prior related experience and not because of the skills gained at BVA.

This. Come to BVA with prior experience? Great, use your prior experience to get out. But your experience at BVA won't help you get a job anywhere other than SSA.

I left BVA for another agency and BVA was my first job after law school.

Are you in a decision writing job at your new agency?

Nope. I agree that it’s hard to move on to another agency after working at bva, but I don’t think it’s because of the experience you get at bva—it’s more about the quality of the applicant.

[Anonymous]

The quality of new hires at the Board went down dramatically between 2016 and 2017 when the Board went on a hiring spree and hired hundreds of new attorneys to reduce the backlog of cases. A lot of new hires during this period went to unranked schools and had abysmally low GPAs. At the time, BVA management just wanted warm bodies in seats.

However, BVA management soon realized that the lack of hiring standards caused more problems for them, as the new attorney hires were barely literate and could not write coherent sentences. That’s why in late 2017, BVA management required all new hires to pass a writing test. The hiring standards today are still lax compared to other agencies, but much better than what it used to be.