Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)
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Anonymous
Perhaps, but full time telework due the pandemic certainly has its benefits. For example, BVA judges can no longer berate attorneys in person. Furthermore, judges can no longer throw objects at attorneys now that everything is virtual. |
Anonymous
I would love to know who that judge was.... |
Anonymous
Who knows? I can think of a number of judges who could fit the profile. The Board has a culture of fear and intimidation. But, it's not just the Board that has a toxic work culture. VA at large has that problem. A few days ago, the VA Office of Inspector General released a damning report about the VA Secretary and how he tried to intimidate and undermine a Congressional staff member who reported sexual harassment at a VA hospital. See link below for the VA OIG report. https://www.va.gov/oig/pubs/VAOIG-20-01766-36.pdf |
Anonymous
What a terrible work environment. I think the Board is particularly good at taking good people and promoting them to supervisors, turning them into management drones and forcing them to enforce the Board's unreasonable goals. You can tell when you talk to them that they don't actually believe in the drivel that they are spewing. Also, given that most of these people have never stepped foot in a legal job that requires you to be responsive to paying clients or trial court judges, its not a job that can give you any marketable skills. If you want to throw away your legal career, though, this is the place to be! |
Anonymous
Good point about people becoming management drones. The Board has long had a toxic work environment. However, I remember the short period when Carol was Executive-in-Charge. Carol really tried to change the work environment at the Board. During that period, the career BVA drones did a complete 180 and parroted Carol’s message of respect and civility - Carol was brought in by the VA Secretary specifically to improve working conditions at the Board. But, when Carol resigned in January 2017, the old guard returned to their ingrained toxic nature. Also, based on my experience, some of the worst managers at the Board were really nice people when they joined the Board. Unfortunately, they allowed the work culture to change them for the worse. |
Anonymous
Why did Carol leave? |
Anonymous
| Team Carol. |
Anonymous
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Carol was a close associate of Robert McDonald, who served as the VA Secretary during the Obama administration. Secretary McDonald initially hired Carol as a consultant to improve the work culture at the Board. While at the Board, Carol reported directly to the Secretary. After a few months, Secretary McDonald replaced Laura, who was the head of BVA, and put Carol in charge - Carol had no experience in the work of the Board; she was put in charge to specifically improve the toxic work culture.
For the most part, Carol excelled during the few months she was EIC. She took every complaint of bullying seriously and chastised managers and judges who mistreated employees. Unfortunately, Carol resigned in January 2017, due to the change in administration. The work environment has worsened considerably since Carol left and is arguably even worse than when she first arrived. |
Anonymous
I wonder if Biden’s VA sec will take an interest in making it less of a shithole? I doubt it. Congress cares about numbers and numbers alone. In order to increase morale they need to lower the quota, but that will bring the wrath of congress. Unless someone had the guts to stand up to congress and publicly say that quantity isn’t the only measure, and keeping your staff from running to the exits has a lot of value, I don’t think anything will substantially change. |
Anonymous
If Biden’s VA Secretary wants to improve working conditions at the Board, the Board’s career managers will parrot the VA Secretary. However, the toxic culture will return once there is a change in leadership. There can be no lasting change so long as the same toxic managers remain in power. Look to Carol’s tenure as a guide. |
Anonymous
How long ago did you leave? It isn’t like that anymore. Every work environment has some toxic bosses. It’s a good job for some people (even that years old survey had less than half even responding) - those who can work independently, like the benefits of telework and remote work options. If the job is a bad fit, move on (and read the room, get out if you aren’t going to be able to make production; hint if you’re on a good team and are a good worker, they will help you make production. If they don’t like you, they won’t help you. Definitely have to watch your reputation). I think the revolving door has slowed down - haven’t seen a vacancy announcement from them in some time. |
Anonymous
That survey was conducted in FY18 with nearly 400 attorneys responding. While 400 attorneys constitutes less than 50 percent of the total number of attorneys at the Board, it is still a significant percentage - just under 50 percent at the time when the survey was taken. I think there is a problem when nearly 50 percent of the attorneys at the Board sound depressed, anxious, and downright suicidal. Of course, as you stated, nearly two years have passed since the survey. Perhaps, things have changed? The reviews on Glassdoor and Indeed suggest otherwise. Lets take a look. Here are some of the reviews from Glassdoor that were submitted this year (2020): 1. "Isolating and unsupportive work environment" and "Poor training, management, and supervision" 2. "Everything you hear is true." 3. "More work than people to do it, no concern from management about over work and burnout." 4. "A lot has changed with this administration. Production rate is very difficult, especially for new attorneys. Training is abhorrent. Your experience here will depend on your judge and some are very hard to work for." 5. "High production quota and that is all that matters; constant pressure to produce; high stress; constant threat of termination if quota not met." Here's a review from Indeed submitted in 2019: "I wish that I was saying something more productive as I am a positive person, but working here has definitely put a dampener on my self confidence. The training here is minimal and is not tailored to a specific judge, who you will eventually write for. It is extremely difficult to succeed at the Board if you have not done a similar role before. The cases vary so much that it is difficult to determine the outcome, even with assistance from your superiors. I came to this role straight out of law school and many of the attorneys I work with have been practicing for many years. It is wholly unfair to compare their standard of work product to someone who is new. Regardless of this, the Board does not care. I would not recommend a new attorney to work here." |
Anonymous
| I don't think the revolving door has changed. In fact, the Board hired many new attorneys this year. Also, keep in mind that due to the pandemic, hiring has slowed. Because veterans benefits law is a niche area of law, many BVA attorneys don't have transferable skills (unless they have prior experience) and are stuck at the Board. |
Anonymous
It really sounds like you don’t know much about it, which is probably why you are the only one talking on this thread. And your response as to how it is at the board now is to go cut and paste some Glassdoor posts? And then, dig around indeed and come up with posts from 2019. That is so sad. I’m sorry someone hurt you so bad. it’s not even clear you ever worked at BVA, because you don’t seem to have the inside scoop on what is happening at the board. I really hope you find a good fit for you and something else to spend your time on than trying to frighten people away from an agency. It’s a job - some bosses are the worst, some people aren’t good at it, some people don’t like it. This applies to all jobs everywhere. Except for the law clerk class of recent law grads, nearly everyone coming to the board has prior experience in either fed Gvt, state/local Gvt, military, or private practice. And even for the law clerks, the ability to learn new niche areas of law is not a stumbling block to finding work at other agencies - do you know other federal agency attorneys? The ability to learn new areas of the CFR quickly and apply it to the task at hand is a highly transferable skill within the federal Gvt. The production requirement just shows how quickly and efficiently one can work [even if they aren’t making production but are close]. I know agencies that love getting prior BVA-attorneys because they know they work quickly and efficiently and are used to navigating complex areas of the law. Doesn’t matter that they are switching to another area of the law - if you can grasp veterans benefits law, you can learn anything. Some attorneys become lifers at their first agency, but many bounce all around to different agencies within the federal government or go to private practice or in-house. If you can’t do good work there, work on getting out sooner rather than later. There’s no requirement you stay for a certain amount of time; there is no contract that you must remain for a year. I’ve known attorneys who weren’t doing well at BVA and left before their first year was up and found a much better match. I am hoping you find peace this holiday season and move on from whatever bad experience you had at BVA. |
Anonymous
Not PP, and I have never worked at BVA, but over the course of my 25 year legal career, I have worked at five different Federal agencies and have been a first line supervisor at two. Generally, that is not how Federal hiring managers think of things. They would prefer that people have experience in the particular area of law for which they are being hired, not generalized ability to apply sections of the CFR that have nothing to do with the practice area for which they are being hired. Also, any legal positions that are not solely writing-based will generally want experience in other areas of legal practice (e.g. providing advice to clients at meetings, taking depositions and discovery, negotiating with opposing counsel, regulation review, comments on legistlation). I have no view on whether BVA is a good place to work, but it would not be considered transferrable. |