She wants a very high-quality man—what are her chances?

[Anonymous]

Alive and well in my cohort (think similar to UES NYC). I’m 41

[Anonymous]

^reread the OP; nvm. I was responding more to the art history major types discussed on the last page. These women may have the soft “clean girl” look, but in reality are athletic, aggressive, and/or social

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She sounds dead boring. I guess the best way to attract this kind of man is go to some ultra conservative college. BYU comes to mind.

Not if she is antisocial. The expectation if you marry a professional Mormon man is that you are social and do things in the community and with other wives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^reread the OP; nvm. I was responding more to the art history major types discussed on the last page. These women may have the soft “clean girl” look, but in reality are athletic, aggressive, and/or social

Are you the 41 year old who said this was alive and well? Yes, it is. But for really affluent women - think parents who will fund not just a down payment, but the whole house. That’s often why the women can afford to go into art history in the first place.

Their peers in the MC and UMC typically have to go to graduate school to land this same guy.

[Anonymous]

Is she a high quality woman or is she milquetoast?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alive and well in my cohort (think similar to UES NYC). I’m 41

Sounds like the before version of a divorced broke ex finance wife who can't figure out why she suddenly has to get a first job as she's pushing 40 and is living in a small rented apartment in Texas instead of cruising museums in Manhattan.

Oh the pain of a divorced woman profiled by The Cut. See Cowles recent profile of 38 year old divorced ex finance wife getting first ever job. And no alimony. And not a clue why!

[Anonymous]

As a professional male, I had no interest in dating women who didn’t have substantial ambitions. Before getting married my girlfriends were future lawyers (I wasn’t limiting myself to lawyers but that’s how it played out). Having a relatively high earning wife also allowed me to take entrepreneurial risk which paid off for our family. My accomplished wife has also been a strong role model for our kids. Also, I don’t think that I’d have much in common with a spouse who didn’t have a significant career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you asking for someone you know?

Yes, a cousin. Forgot to add that she’s never worked and doesn’t plan to ever work.

no man is going to fall for this!

her *list* is ridiculous.

what exactly does she possess that would attract a man?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a professional male, I had no interest in dating women who didn’t have substantial ambitions. Before getting married my girlfriends were future lawyers (I wasn’t limiting myself to lawyers but that’s how it played out). Having a relatively high earning wife also allowed me to take entrepreneurial risk which paid off for our family. My accomplished wife has also been a strong role model for our kids. Also, I don’t think that I’d have much in common with a spouse who didn’t have a significant career.

Data show that as education increases, women become more progressive, less likely to take husband's name, less likely to have children, and more likely to divorce. So your anecdote isn't helpful.

For OP, a girl just needs to be thin and pleasant. The description should work, if she can find one of these guys. She should think more how she will win one because it's a competitive market. Her youth is a great factor, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious to hear perspectives on this woman’s chances with high-quality men:

Profile of the Woman:
-Early 20s
-Highly attractive (8–9/10), natural “clean soft girl” aesthetic for her husband
-Well-groomed but minimal makeup / low-maintenance; always clean and polished for her husband
-Quiet, introverted, very shy; very quiet in public
-Homebody, small social circle (has one best friend)
-Polite, very nice, empathetic, caring, people-pleasing, loyal, not manipulative or mean
-Limited dating history, hasn’t dated seriously, but has tried talking to guys online
-Won’t be social with in-laws initially; quiet unless spoken to, warms up gradually if she likes them
-Hates cooking and cleaning, but learning specifically to cook and maintain household perfectly for her future husband
-Lazy with her chores now, but will run a perfect household for her husband
-Excellent at hosting and organizing events
-Always intends to look attractive and well-presented for her husband
-Doesn’t drive (dislikes being out alone)
-Wants marriage/kids, traditional setup
-No specific hobbies, but would enjoy traveling and being a wife and mom
-Lifestyle goals: not super high maintenance

Type of Man She Wants:
-Doctor (cardiologist, orthopedic surgeon, anesthesiologist, pediatrician, etc.), high-earning entrepreneur, or other high-paying professional
-Comes from a good/wealthy family
-Well-educated, went to a good school
-Put-together, stable, takes the lead but values wife equally
-Has friends but not overly social/popular
-Charismatic but not over-the-top
-Relatively attractive, tall, great personality
-Family-oriented, prioritizes wife and children
-Medium work hours; flexible doctor or business owner
-Wants kids as soon as possible
-Will take the lead on finances but values her input for household and family decisions

Questions:
What are her realistic chances of attracting a man like this?
How much do her introverted, very quiet personality and lack of hobbies affect her desirability?
Does her lack of driving or career ambition matter at this level?
How does her selective domestic commitment (hates chores/cooking but perfect for husband, always well-groomed, hosting, caring) play in long-term marriage?
Any other traits or behaviors she should adopt to increase her chances?

Not judging—just genuinely curious what people have actually observed in real life.

She needs to be super aggressive. Men who meet these requirements are pursued by a lot of women. There are just so few men like this and a lot of women looking for a man like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, update. So my younger cousin is home from school visiting, and we talked, and I told her everything that was said here. She still thinks she’s capable of finding that kind of man. I told her she needs to be more independent (like driving), and she said she’ll think about it and work on it later, when she actually needs to. She doesn’t really see the need to drive right now, but says if it becomes necessary in the future—like when she has kids and needs to handle school activities or emergencies—then she’ll learn. That’s mainly why she hasn’t prioritized it so far.

I also feel like I may have made her sound kind of helpless and bland, isn’t really accurate. She’s actually great with kids, very smart, self-aware, and aware of what’s going on around her and in the world. She’s always done really well in school too (4.0). She’s not clueless at all—she just lacks motivation when it comes to working or pursuing a career. The shyness is just part of her personality. She also doesn’t really have specific hobbies like yoga, sports, etc., but she is busy with school—she reads more in-depth material and does a lot of writing which she enjoys. Most of her time is spent doing schoolwork and spending time with family, so she’s not just wasting time. As for life skills like cooking and cleaning, she’s perfectly capable once she learns—she just didn’t have much experience before but is starting to learn now. She’s been asking me what kinds of meals men typically like, and I’ve been helping her learn how to cook—she’s actually doing really well with it.

You guys might assume, based on her age, that she’d be interested in someone her own age, but she’s actually very set on finding an older, more established man. She’s still very hopeful and set on this. She’s 21, a junior in college, and specifically interested in an older, more established man (she said up to ~15 years older but not much beyond that). She’s not really interested in guys her own age due to finances and just thinks they’re too young.

Her main question now is where she would even meet someone like this—like specific cities, places, or settings where older, established men tend to be. Are there certain apps, social scenes, or environments where this is more common? She says she’s willing to put in the effort to make it happen.

If she’s a really good student, and she wants to meet a doctor to marry, she should go to medical school. That’s where they are.

I’m a psychiatrist. I spent most of residency talking deeply and pontificating. It was great. And now I have a job that I like that’s very easy to do part time.

+1
The best place to meet those types is where you become one yourself. I’m a doctor and met my doctor husband during grad school.

BTW women prefer their equals. More and more men these days do too. It’s the insecure men who will marry down - and upgrade later.

While some doctors and lawyers seek to marry others doctors and lawyers, many do not prefer partners who are their equals. This is because these women typically aren’t willing to abandon their careers to become SAHM. Instead, these high-profile doctors and lawyers are often more attracted to beautiful nurses and legal assistants. The same goes for numerous successful businessmen.

I understand that your feminist side may not agree, but this is the reality.

Sure, a doctor may go for a nurse or a lawyer a paralegal but here we are talking about a helpless college student who wants no career and can’t drive a car. What successful man is looking for that?

Exactly. Those are women who have shown their energy, initiative, and intelligence. No they're not splitting atoms, but you don't get through nursing school or being a good paralegal without some smarts. Totally different from someone with zero initiative and zero accomplishments.

OP’s cousin is smart. She is a 4.0 student. She’s intelligent. She’s just not interested in a career.

She is not interested in driving a car or having other basic life skills you would expect of a teenager, what man wants someone this helpless?

Tons do. A lot of women here seem to be hating on this girl. Shes smart, pretty, and young. She’ll be able to find someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, update. So my younger cousin is home from school visiting, and we talked, and I told her everything that was said here. She still thinks she’s capable of finding that kind of man. I told her she needs to be more independent (like driving), and she said she’ll think about it and work on it later, when she actually needs to. She doesn’t really see the need to drive right now, but says if it becomes necessary in the future—like when she has kids and needs to handle school activities or emergencies—then she’ll learn. That’s mainly why she hasn’t prioritized it so far.

I also feel like I may have made her sound kind of helpless and bland, isn’t really accurate. She’s actually great with kids, very smart, self-aware, and aware of what’s going on around her and in the world. She’s always done really well in school too (4.0). She’s not clueless at all—she just lacks motivation when it comes to working or pursuing a career. The shyness is just part of her personality. She also doesn’t really have specific hobbies like yoga, sports, etc., but she is busy with school—she reads more in-depth material and does a lot of writing which she enjoys. Most of her time is spent doing schoolwork and spending time with family, so she’s not just wasting time. As for life skills like cooking and cleaning, she’s perfectly capable once she learns—she just didn’t have much experience before but is starting to learn now. She’s been asking me what kinds of meals men typically like, and I’ve been helping her learn how to cook—she’s actually doing really well with it.

You guys might assume, based on her age, that she’d be interested in someone her own age, but she’s actually very set on finding an older, more established man. She’s still very hopeful and set on this. She’s 21, a junior in college, and specifically interested in an older, more established man (she said up to ~15 years older but not much beyond that). She’s not really interested in guys her own age due to finances and just thinks they’re too young.

Her main question now is where she would even meet someone like this—like specific cities, places, or settings where older, established men tend to be. Are there certain apps, social scenes, or environments where this is more common? She says she’s willing to put in the effort to make it happen.

If she’s a really good student, and she wants to meet a doctor to marry, she should go to medical school. That’s where they are.

I’m a psychiatrist. I spent most of residency talking deeply and pontificating. It was great. And now I have a job that I like that’s very easy to do part time.

+1
The best place to meet those types is where you become one yourself. I’m a doctor and met my doctor husband during grad school.

BTW women prefer their equals. More and more men these days do too. It’s the insecure men who will marry down - and upgrade later.

While some doctors and lawyers seek to marry others doctors and lawyers, many do not prefer partners who are their equals. This is because these women typically aren’t willing to abandon their careers to become SAHM. Instead, these high-profile doctors and lawyers are often more attracted to beautiful nurses and legal assistants. The same goes for numerous successful businessmen.

I understand that your feminist side may not agree, but this is the reality.

Sure, a doctor may go for a nurse or a lawyer a paralegal but here we are talking about a helpless college student who wants no career and can’t drive a car. What successful man is looking for that?

Exactly. Those are women who have shown their energy, initiative, and intelligence. No they're not splitting atoms, but you don't get through nursing school or being a good paralegal without some smarts. Totally different from someone with zero initiative and zero accomplishments.

OP’s cousin is smart. She is a 4.0 student. She’s intelligent. She’s just not interested in a career.

She is not interested in driving a car or having other basic life skills you would expect of a teenager, what man wants someone this helpless?

Tons do. A lot of women here seem to be hating on this girl. Shes smart, pretty, and young. She’ll be able to find someone.

Only if her parents fix her up in an arranged marriage, or if they take her to the country club and push her in front of men 50+ to be a second wife.

[Anonymous]

I can totally relate to your cousin. I didn’t want a career either, just wanted to meet a good guy and settle down. I married a wealthy man when I was 23, right after graduating college with a political science degree. We met super casually at a bar—he was a law student at the time.
We’ve been married for 26 years now, and I’ve never worked a job outside of a part-time college gig. We lived in NYC most of that time, and I didn’t even start driving until I was 35 (honestly, I don’t think driving is that big of a deal in today’s world).
For anyone wondering, my husband is great, and I think it’s totally possible to live this way if you find the right person. I get that your cousin wants to be a wife and mom, which is awesome, but I’d advise her to take some time to figure out her passions first. You definitely want to show that you're into things and have your own hobbies. Once she does that, she’ll be much more confident and have more to bring to the relationship.
Good luck to her, I hope everything works out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professional male, I had no interest in dating women who didn’t have substantial ambitions. Before getting married my girlfriends were future lawyers (I wasn’t limiting myself to lawyers but that’s how it played out). Having a relatively high earning wife also allowed me to take entrepreneurial risk which paid off for our family. My accomplished wife has also been a strong role model for our kids. Also, I don’t think that I’d have much in common with a spouse who didn’t have a significant career.

Data show that as education increases, women become more progressive, less likely to take husband's name, less likely to have children, and more likely to divorce. So your anecdote isn't helpful.

For OP, a girl just needs to be thin and pleasant. The description should work, if she can find one of these guys. She should think more how she will win one because it's a competitive market. Her youth is a great factor, though.

I didn’t do a data search before I got married and I’m not sure what data you’re referring to. My wife’s an Ivy grad, didn’t change her name, is a Democrat and we have kids. And, to the best of my knowledge, hasn’t consulted a divorce lawyer. “Thin and pleasant” is a low bar for a spouse, don’t you think? My dog meets those standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, update. So my younger cousin is home from school visiting, and we talked, and I told her everything that was said here. She still thinks she’s capable of finding that kind of man. I told her she needs to be more independent (like driving), and she said she’ll think about it and work on it later, when she actually needs to. She doesn’t really see the need to drive right now, but says if it becomes necessary in the future—like when she has kids and needs to handle school activities or emergencies—then she’ll learn. That’s mainly why she hasn’t prioritized it so far.

I also feel like I may have made her sound kind of helpless and bland, isn’t really accurate. She’s actually great with kids, very smart, self-aware, and aware of what’s going on around her and in the world. She’s always done really well in school too (4.0). She’s not clueless at all—she just lacks motivation when it comes to working or pursuing a career. The shyness is just part of her personality. She also doesn’t really have specific hobbies like yoga, sports, etc., but she is busy with school—she reads more in-depth material and does a lot of writing which she enjoys. Most of her time is spent doing schoolwork and spending time with family, so she’s not just wasting time. As for life skills like cooking and cleaning, she’s perfectly capable once she learns—she just didn’t have much experience before but is starting to learn now. She’s been asking me what kinds of meals men typically like, and I’ve been helping her learn how to cook—she’s actually doing really well with it.

You guys might assume, based on her age, that she’d be interested in someone her own age, but she’s actually very set on finding an older, more established man. She’s still very hopeful and set on this. She’s 21, a junior in college, and specifically interested in an older, more established man (she said up to ~15 years older but not much beyond that). She’s not really interested in guys her own age due to finances and just thinks they’re too young.

Her main question now is where she would even meet someone like this—like specific cities, places, or settings where older, established men tend to be. Are there certain apps, social scenes, or environments where this is more common? She says she’s willing to put in the effort to make it happen.

If she’s a really good student, and she wants to meet a doctor to marry, she should go to medical school. That’s where they are.

I’m a psychiatrist. I spent most of residency talking deeply and pontificating. It was great. And now I have a job that I like that’s very easy to do part time.

+1
The best place to meet those types is where you become one yourself. I’m a doctor and met my doctor husband during grad school.

BTW women prefer their equals. More and more men these days do too. It’s the insecure men who will marry down - and upgrade later.

While some doctors and lawyers seek to marry others doctors and lawyers, many do not prefer partners who are their equals. This is because these women typically aren’t willing to abandon their careers to become SAHM. Instead, these high-profile doctors and lawyers are often more attracted to beautiful nurses and legal assistants. The same goes for numerous successful businessmen.

I understand that your feminist side may not agree, but this is the reality.

Sure, a doctor may go for a nurse or a lawyer a paralegal but here we are talking about a helpless college student who wants no career and can’t drive a car. What successful man is looking for that?

Exactly. Those are women who have shown their energy, initiative, and intelligence. No they're not splitting atoms, but you don't get through nursing school or being a good paralegal without some smarts. Totally different from someone with zero initiative and zero accomplishments.

OP’s cousin is smart. She is a 4.0 student. She’s intelligent. She’s just not interested in a career.

She is not interested in driving a car or having other basic life skills you would expect of a teenager, what man wants someone this helpless?

Tons do. A lot of women here seem to be hating on this girl. Shes smart, pretty, and young. She’ll be able to find someone.

Just make sure she doesn't sign a prenup. Otherwise when she's fifty she might need to figure out how to take a bus to her first job. Unless she has a massive trust fund? Op didn't mention if prospective wife had a dowery. Does she?