Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.
I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.
I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.
It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.
You know what's even better than that? Using limited road space to move more people efficiently and safely. For example, by putting bus-only lanes on Georgia Avenue.
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
[Mic drop]
Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?
Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.
To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?
Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...
Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?
Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?
I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that Georgia Avenue is dangerous for kids, right now.
You mean kid, singular? There's not many children on Georgia Avenue because of the whole lots-of-cars-thing.
I would be ashamed of myself, if I claimed to be worried about kids' safety, but I just hand-waved away a four-year-old child who was killed. Apparently you're only worried about some kids' safety. My idea is that all streets in DC should be safe for all kids.
I dont mean to be rude, but you are a complete moron. Seriously. You should never talk.
Name calling is where people who can't debate go to hide.
I think the issue is that there is very few children on Georgia Avenue. There's a lot of traffic there and have you ever been on Georgia Avenue? There's not a lot of reason for children to be on Georgia Avenue!
But in the surrounding neighborhoods, there is a huge, huge number of children. There are more kids in Ward 4 than anywhere else in the city. One quarter of everyone who lives there is under the of 18.
If you make traffic terrible on Georgia Avenue, tens of thousands of drivers will cut through all the side streets where those children live and where there is not a lot of traffic currently. Those kids will be put in imminent danger by this plan.
I live a few blocks from Georgia and rarely cross it on foot with my kids (ironically when I do it is usually when I am getting off the bus). My oldest is in 4th grade and sometimes walks to or from school alone- I would never let him do this if he had to cross Georgia. In other words, the reason you might not see that many kids on Georgia is because drivers are insane and people don't feel safe walking on it. I am very much in support of this plan. If drivers want to try to hold DC residents hostage by saying that they will drive dangerously in residential streets as well then let's add in speed bumps on the side roads as well.
There are several schools (John Lewis, Truesdell come to mine) that have boundaries that cross Georgia Ave by the way. The four year old who was killed was a Truesdell student.
Speedbumps are dumb. Cars just go through stop signs to make up for lost time. I'd rather have drivers stop at intersections than randomly slow down in the middle of the block.
I've got news for you: if you are regularly running stop signs to make up for the time you lost at speed bumps, you are both in the minority and a dangerous driver.
I just live in the real world. People respond to traffic calming proposals in ways that aren't obvious or desirable that sometimes make traffic calming proposals a net negative for safety.
Traffic calming advocates assume they can make drivers' commutes substantially longer and drivers will just take it. The problem is: They won't! They are jealous of their time and they will do all kinds of things, many you would never think of, to make sure their commutes do not get longer, regardless of whatever crazy idea DDOT proposes.
Yes, dangerous scofflaw drivers will do dangerous illegal things, and that is what enforcement is for.
Rational drivers will do things like ask themselves, "Hey, maybe my commute would be better if I took the bus! I will try that."
NARRATOR: DC is cutting back bus service, because buses aren't nearly as popular as they once were.
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
[Mic drop]
Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?
Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.
To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?
Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...
Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?
Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?
I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that Georgia Avenue is dangerous for kids, right now.
You mean kid, singular? There's not many children on Georgia Avenue because of the whole lots-of-cars-thing.
I would be ashamed of myself, if I claimed to be worried about kids' safety, but I just hand-waved away a four-year-old child who was killed. Apparently you're only worried about some kids' safety. My idea is that all streets in DC should be safe for all kids.
I dont mean to be rude, but you are a complete moron. Seriously. You should never talk.
Name calling is where people who can't debate go to hide.
I think the issue is that there is very few children on Georgia Avenue. There's a lot of traffic there and have you ever been on Georgia Avenue? There's not a lot of reason for children to be on Georgia Avenue!
But in the surrounding neighborhoods, there is a huge, huge number of children. There are more kids in Ward 4 than anywhere else in the city. One quarter of everyone who lives there is under the of 18.
If you make traffic terrible on Georgia Avenue, tens of thousands of drivers will cut through all the side streets where those children live and where there is not a lot of traffic currently. Those kids will be put in imminent danger by this plan.
Of course there are children on Georgia Avenue.
Why shouldn't the side streets be safe for kids AND Georgia Avenue be safe for kids?
Ha! What are these hordes of children doing on Georgia Avenue? Are they going to liquor stores? Are they buying lottery tickets? Maybe they're getting their car washed?
Yes, Georgia Avenue is a wonderland for kids of all ages.
Perhaps they are attending school or crossing the street after leaving school.
That doesn't even count the schools that are a block or two off of Georgia Avenue.
Believe it or not people live in DC.
Exactly. This is why we should keep the traffic on Georgia Avenue. There's no kids on Georgia Avenue. There's a million kids in the surrounding area. Some, inevitably, will be killed as cars race through nearby neighborhoods trying to avoid Georgia Avenue.
This isn't hard. Cars should be where people expect them to be. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road with lots of traffic. No one thinks of fkning Gallatin Street as a major thoroughfare.
Do you think the kids at these schools just apparate to appear at the school a few blocks from Georgia ave? You can see how drivers going miles and miles from MD to downtown DC would need to use Georgia but you can't imagine how a child who goes to school a few blocks from Georgia would need to use it? I live in DC a certainly don't think that I use the beltway more or have more of a need for it than someone who lives in Kensington.
Have you been on Georgia Avenue? It is basically a very long stretch of liquor stores, barber shops, car washes, bodegas, drug addicts and homeless people. It's not really a big place for kids to go.
Starting at Eastern Ave and going south, the following are on Georgia: Target, the Shepherd Park Library, a craft store, apartment buildings (in which children live), the Parks at Walter Reed (which includes a daycare, nail salon, restaurants and playground, all on Georgia), a CVS, Walmart, McDonalds (several), another playground. You don't take your kids to any of those places?
Also, you think kids don't do to barber shops?
Plus an awesome thrift store, at least two other daycares, a community center and park, Petworth library, numerous restaurants, and Banneker pool. Sorry this no kids on Georgia poster is just weird. Georgia is a vibrant place. There are absolutely kids there. There would be more if it were a safer street.
This dewy-eyed, whitewashed vision of Georgia Avenue is great! Now do Benning Avenue. Tell us how every child, and their parents, wish they could hang out on Benning Road.
How is this dewy eyed? Those businesses are objectively on (or just off) Georgia. I definitely wish Georgia were nicer. But my kids and I still hang there.
Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.
I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.
I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.
It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.
You know what's even better than that? Using limited road space to move more people efficiently and safely. For example, by putting bus-only lanes on Georgia Avenue.
That is your opinion and preference that you are presenting as a moral right. I don't like your preference.
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
[Mic drop]
Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?
Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.
To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?
Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...
Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?
Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?
I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that Georgia Avenue is dangerous for kids, right now.
You mean kid, singular? There's not many children on Georgia Avenue because of the whole lots-of-cars-thing.
I would be ashamed of myself, if I claimed to be worried about kids' safety, but I just hand-waved away a four-year-old child who was killed. Apparently you're only worried about some kids' safety. My idea is that all streets in DC should be safe for all kids.
I dont mean to be rude, but you are a complete moron. Seriously. You should never talk.
Name calling is where people who can't debate go to hide.
I think the issue is that there is very few children on Georgia Avenue. There's a lot of traffic there and have you ever been on Georgia Avenue? There's not a lot of reason for children to be on Georgia Avenue!
But in the surrounding neighborhoods, there is a huge, huge number of children. There are more kids in Ward 4 than anywhere else in the city. One quarter of everyone who lives there is under the of 18.
If you make traffic terrible on Georgia Avenue, tens of thousands of drivers will cut through all the side streets where those children live and where there is not a lot of traffic currently. Those kids will be put in imminent danger by this plan.
I live a few blocks from Georgia and rarely cross it on foot with my kids (ironically when I do it is usually when I am getting off the bus). My oldest is in 4th grade and sometimes walks to or from school alone- I would never let him do this if he had to cross Georgia. In other words, the reason you might not see that many kids on Georgia is because drivers are insane and people don't feel safe walking on it. I am very much in support of this plan. If drivers want to try to hold DC residents hostage by saying that they will drive dangerously in residential streets as well then let's add in speed bumps on the side roads as well.
There are several schools (John Lewis, Truesdell come to mine) that have boundaries that cross Georgia Ave by the way. The four year old who was killed was a Truesdell student.
Speedbumps are dumb. Cars just go through stop signs to make up for lost time. I'd rather have drivers stop at intersections than randomly slow down in the middle of the block.
I've got news for you: if you are regularly running stop signs to make up for the time you lost at speed bumps, you are both in the minority and a dangerous driver.
I just live in the real world. People respond to traffic calming proposals in ways that aren't obvious or desirable that sometimes make traffic calming proposals a net negative for safety.
Traffic calming advocates assume they can make drivers' commutes substantially longer and drivers will just take it. The problem is: They won't! They are jealous of their time and they will do all kinds of things, many you would never think of, to make sure their commutes do not get longer, regardless of whatever crazy idea DDOT proposes.
Yes, dangerous scofflaw drivers will do dangerous illegal things, and that is what enforcement is for.
Rational drivers will do things like ask themselves, "Hey, maybe my commute would be better if I took the bus! I will try that."
NARRATOR: DC is cutting back bus service, because buses aren't nearly as popular as they once were.
Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.
I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.
I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.
It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.
You know what's even better than that? Using limited road space to move more people efficiently and safely. For example, by putting bus-only lanes on Georgia Avenue.
That is your opinion and preference that you are presenting as a moral right. I don't like your preference.
Yes, of course people are free to prefer using limited road space to move fewer people less efficiently and less safely. If that's your preference, have at it. Your preference is irrelevant as well as bananas, but you're free to have it.
Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.
I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.
I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.
It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.
You know what's even better than that? Using limited road space to move more people efficiently and safely. For example, by putting bus-only lanes on Georgia Avenue.
That is your opinion and preference that you are presenting as a moral right. I don't like your preference.
Yes, of course people are free to prefer using limited road space to move fewer people less efficiently and less safely. If that's your preference, have at it. Your preference is irrelevant as well as bananas, but you're free to have it.
Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.
I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.
I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.
It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.
You know what's even better than that? Using limited road space to move more people efficiently and safely. For example, by putting bus-only lanes on Georgia Avenue.
That is your opinion and preference that you are presenting as a moral right. I don't like your preference.
Yes, of course people are free to prefer using limited road space to move fewer people less efficiently and less safely. If that's your preference, have at it. Your preference is irrelevant as well as bananas, but you're free to have it.
Ok, be king. You know what is the authoritative, inscrutable, right way to do things. We bow down.
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
[Mic drop]
Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?
Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.
To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?
Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...
Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?
Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?
I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that Georgia Avenue is dangerous for kids, right now.
You mean kid, singular? There's not many children on Georgia Avenue because of the whole lots-of-cars-thing.
I would be ashamed of myself, if I claimed to be worried about kids' safety, but I just hand-waved away a four-year-old child who was killed. Apparently you're only worried about some kids' safety. My idea is that all streets in DC should be safe for all kids.
I dont mean to be rude, but you are a complete moron. Seriously. You should never talk.
Name calling is where people who can't debate go to hide.
I think the issue is that there is very few children on Georgia Avenue. There's a lot of traffic there and have you ever been on Georgia Avenue? There's not a lot of reason for children to be on Georgia Avenue!
But in the surrounding neighborhoods, there is a huge, huge number of children. There are more kids in Ward 4 than anywhere else in the city. One quarter of everyone who lives there is under the of 18.
If you make traffic terrible on Georgia Avenue, tens of thousands of drivers will cut through all the side streets where those children live and where there is not a lot of traffic currently. Those kids will be put in imminent danger by this plan.
I live a few blocks from Georgia and rarely cross it on foot with my kids (ironically when I do it is usually when I am getting off the bus). My oldest is in 4th grade and sometimes walks to or from school alone- I would never let him do this if he had to cross Georgia. In other words, the reason you might not see that many kids on Georgia is because drivers are insane and people don't feel safe walking on it. I am very much in support of this plan. If drivers want to try to hold DC residents hostage by saying that they will drive dangerously in residential streets as well then let's add in speed bumps on the side roads as well.
There are several schools (John Lewis, Truesdell come to mine) that have boundaries that cross Georgia Ave by the way. The four year old who was killed was a Truesdell student.
Speedbumps are dumb. Cars just go through stop signs to make up for lost time. I'd rather have drivers stop at intersections than randomly slow down in the middle of the block.
I've got news for you: if you are regularly running stop signs to make up for the time you lost at speed bumps, you are both in the minority and a dangerous driver.
I just live in the real world. People respond to traffic calming proposals in ways that aren't obvious or desirable that sometimes make traffic calming proposals a net negative for safety.
Traffic calming advocates assume they can make drivers' commutes substantially longer and drivers will just take it. The problem is: They won't! They are jealous of their time and they will do all kinds of things, many you would never think of, to make sure their commutes do not get longer, regardless of whatever crazy idea DDOT proposes.
Yes, dangerous scofflaw drivers will do dangerous illegal things, and that is what enforcement is for.
Rational drivers will do things like ask themselves, "Hey, maybe my commute would be better if I took the bus! I will try that."
NARRATOR: DC is cutting back bus service, because buses aren't nearly as popular as they once were.
So bus service should be improved.
The reason they're cutting service is because people aren't riding the bus. Fewer riders means less money means service reductions. It's strange DDOT is talking about bus only lanes and WMATA is talking about cutting bus service. Do these agencies even talk to each other?
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
[Mic drop]
Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?
1. He was on kennedy st, not the arterial. You don’t get to create your own facts
2. A bus lane wouldn’t have saved his life if he had been on Georgia Ave. I can make up a story in which a BUS ran over him. What would you say to that?
3 A car — or a bus — going just 7 mph and running over a kid is going to kill the kid. Slowing everything down to slow mo speed (your goal) can’t compensate for inattentive or indifferent parenting.
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
[Mic drop]
Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?
Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.
To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?
Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...
Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?
Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?
I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that Georgia Avenue is dangerous for kids, right now.
You mean kid, singular? There's not many children on Georgia Avenue because of the whole lots-of-cars-thing.
I would be ashamed of myself, if I claimed to be worried about kids' safety, but I just hand-waved away a four-year-old child who was killed. Apparently you're only worried about some kids' safety. My idea is that all streets in DC should be safe for all kids.
I dont mean to be rude, but you are a complete moron. Seriously. You should never talk.
Name calling is where people who can't debate go to hide.
I think the issue is that there is very few children on Georgia Avenue. There's a lot of traffic there and have you ever been on Georgia Avenue? There's not a lot of reason for children to be on Georgia Avenue!
But in the surrounding neighborhoods, there is a huge, huge number of children. There are more kids in Ward 4 than anywhere else in the city. One quarter of everyone who lives there is under the of 18.
If you make traffic terrible on Georgia Avenue, tens of thousands of drivers will cut through all the side streets where those children live and where there is not a lot of traffic currently. Those kids will be put in imminent danger by this plan.
I live a few blocks from Georgia and rarely cross it on foot with my kids (ironically when I do it is usually when I am getting off the bus). My oldest is in 4th grade and sometimes walks to or from school alone- I would never let him do this if he had to cross Georgia. In other words, the reason you might not see that many kids on Georgia is because drivers are insane and people don't feel safe walking on it. I am very much in support of this plan. If drivers want to try to hold DC residents hostage by saying that they will drive dangerously in residential streets as well then let's add in speed bumps on the side roads as well.
There are several schools (John Lewis, Truesdell come to mine) that have boundaries that cross Georgia Ave by the way. The four year old who was killed was a Truesdell student.
Speedbumps are dumb. Cars just go through stop signs to make up for lost time. I'd rather have drivers stop at intersections than randomly slow down in the middle of the block.
I've got news for you: if you are regularly running stop signs to make up for the time you lost at speed bumps, you are both in the minority and a dangerous driver.
I just live in the real world. People respond to traffic calming proposals in ways that aren't obvious or desirable that sometimes make traffic calming proposals a net negative for safety.
Traffic calming advocates assume they can make drivers' commutes substantially longer and drivers will just take it. The problem is: They won't! They are jealous of their time and they will do all kinds of things, many you would never think of, to make sure their commutes do not get longer, regardless of whatever crazy idea DDOT proposes.
Yes, dangerous scofflaw drivers will do dangerous illegal things, and that is what enforcement is for.
Rational drivers will do things like ask themselves, "Hey, maybe my commute would be better if I took the bus! I will try that."
NARRATOR: DC is cutting back bus service, because buses aren't nearly as popular as they once were.
So bus service should be improved.
The reason they're cutting service is because people aren't riding the bus. Fewer riders means less money means service reductions. It's strange DDOT is talking about bus only lanes and WMATA is talking about cutting bus service. Do these agencies even talk to each other?
No, the reason they're cutting service is because WMATA doesn't have a dedicated funding source.
If we're going to fund transit through fares, then we need to fund roads through tolls.
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
[Mic drop]
Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?
Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.
To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?
Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...
Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?
Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?
It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.
Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.
Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?
It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.
Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.
Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.
Anonymous wrote:The argument that if we don't all agree Georgia Avenue should be a speedway to shuttle individual drivers in individual cars from their homes in MD to their offices downtown, then those drivers will go on murderous rampage of children on Petworth residential streets, is insane.
I'm sorry traffic is bad. All evidence ponts to the idea that the only way to address the issue on a long-term basis is to move people to more efficient modes of transportation. That includes buses. If you'd rather plow through crowds of school children in a residential neighborhood going 50 in 15 than take the bus, then I suggest it's time to rethink your values system.
I've taken the bus to work for years. It's fine. It's not as luxurious as driving my own car and parking in the building but it costs a tiny fraction of that option so whatever.
It's better to have car traffic where people expect it. That way, no one is surprised and there are fewer accidents. Everyone knows Georgia Avenue is a major road and responds accordingly. When you put lots of traffic in places where people don't expect it (like side streets), that's when bad things happen.
You know what's even better than that? Using limited road space to move more people efficiently and safely. For example, by putting bus-only lanes on Georgia Avenue.
That is your opinion and preference that you are presenting as a moral right. I don't like your preference.
Well, I don't like yours. Hey, I've got an idea, let's both talk to our government officials and let them know our preferences and then let them make the decision!
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
+1000
There is no universe in which this plan doesnt make the streets more dangerous.
One more way that drivers are super self centered- if they can't drive as fast as they want on a main road then they will speed down side roads and hit pedestrians. That is the fault of the CITY, you see and not the drivers who choose to speed or run stop lights in residential areas. The city MADE ME DO IT.
Ok, sweetie, time to get your bag and go to school. 10th grade is a very important year in your development.
Ironically, attacking someone's character/ intellect etc instead of addressing the substance of an opponent's argument is a low-level debate tactic that unsophisticated debaters use to deflect from the fact that they do not have a substantive response.
We’ve already crushed your IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI debating tactics. We won the round.
Now we’re suggesting that you go to class or at least put your phone away. That’s probably a classroom rule, no?
Anonymous wrote:Love it; bring it to more of the major streets. Thanks DDOT!
Seems like this makes the streets more dangerous, not less.
Drivers aren't going to sit in traffic, and they're not going to switch to the bus. This will just shift traffic onto all the smaller streets around Georgia Avenue. How is that better?
Seems like it's better to focus traffic on big roads where everyone expects there to be lots of cars. I would be pissed if I lived in a neighborhood near Georgia.
This is the main question here that no one can seem to answer.
They don't want to answer it. The data and research is very clear that increasing congestion on heavily congested roads decreases safety. This isn't about safety. It has never been.
The data and research that you made up in your head.
In the actual world, the data and research are very clear that slower speeds make a street safer for everyone, including drivers.
Are you the AI bot, or the 19 yr old city planning intern with nothing else to do all afternoon? These insipid IKnowYouAreButWhatAmI responses are boresome. You're flat wrong.
Anyway, the actual data show that squeezing traffic to a standstill on a designated arterial will induce diversion to side roads. That situation is not, in fact, safer for anyone. High volume traffic on designated local streets is more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, pets, and 3 yr old scooter riders who misjudge the curb.
Your term paper thesis is going to kill a 3 yr old someday soon in the District. Is that okay with you?
[Mic drop]
Is it ok with you that an actual four year old was actually killed by a driver on Georgia Avenue?
Are you even from here? There's virtually no children on Georgia Avenue because their parents are like, "stay the F away from Georgia Avenue because there's too many cars." There's tens of thousands of children in the neighborhoods abutting Georgia Avenue that will be put in serious danger by this plan.
To repeat, AN ACTUAL FOUR YEAR OLD WAS ACTUALLY KILLED BY A DRIVER ON GEORGIA AVENUE. But that doesn't matter to you, because ... well, why?
Wow. Your caps make your dumb arguments so much more convincing! Again, go to Georgia Avenue and count how many children you see. You will only need one hand. Then go to look up how many kids live in nearby neighborhoods, walking to school and playing with friends, who will suddenly be put in immediate danger as tens of thousands of drivers go racing through their neighborhoods to avoid Georgia Avenue. This isn't hard. Well, maybe for you it is...
Yeah, you haven't answered the question. Why are potential kids, who might potentially be killed, more important to you than this actual child who was actually killed on Georgia Avenue? Wasn't his safety important too?
Are you aware of how completely crazy you sound? You think we should put tens of thousands of kids in danger because there was a kid killed on Georgia Avenue five years ago?
It's like arguing that, because a child was killed on the Beltway several years ago, we should make the Beltway a two lane road, and redirect all the commuter traffic into all the little towns surrounding the highway and, yeah, there's a lot of kids in those towns, but I'm sure it will be totally fine.
Yeah, you're another person who claims to be worried about the safety of kids, but actually your primary worry is the convenience of drivers.
Why shouldn't Georgia Avenue also be safe for kids?
It’s a major arterial and an evacuation route and a state highway at the border. It’s safe enough at this time.
Your statistics 101 class that you took in 2023 as a freshman surely taught that there is no such thing as zero risk.
Every death is a sad event to be sure but it was never going to be none. You can have all the fantastical “Visions” you want but it is not statistically possible. In any city. Never has happened— even in Sweden! — and it never will.
You should have stopped after "Every death is a sad event." Especially when the death in question was a four-year-old child.
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