My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.

Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.

In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.

All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.

To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.

I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.

For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.

Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.

If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.

Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.

It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.

From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.

You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.

I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.

It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.

But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.

That is a possible solution. Many parents who cannot work because of their kids disabilities apply for SSI/SSDI. I don't know much about the process but I know it takes a while and not all parents qualify.

Vouchers. School funding should be attached to each child, with parents having flexibility to home school, move to a private or move to a specialized school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.

Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.

In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.

All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.

To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.

I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.

For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.

Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.

If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.

Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.

It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.

From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.

You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.

I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.

It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.

But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.

Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.

Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.

In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.

All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.

To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.

I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.

For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.

Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.

If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.

Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.

It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.

From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.

You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.

I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.

It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.

But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.

I have a hard time believing this is a serious argument. If COVID taught us anything, at a minimum it's that virtual schooling is not what we want if we hope kids to mature. That's something that even Republicans and Democrats can agree on. And unless that government stipend can cover health insurance, 401(k) contributions, and lost earning potential, putting your career on a back burner seems like a polite way of saying women should go back in the kitchen where they belong. Thanks, but no thanks to all of your creative suggestions.

What a lot of people experienced during COVID was national emergency level virtual school. The average teacher didn't want to be doing it and also didn't know how. These classes didn't have the proper support or resources.

This is extremely different from the good online schools that exist today.

You are just very wrong. You cannot isolate a young elementary child from peers and expect them to learn how to become emotionally stable human beings with therapy and parenting. They need supports AND socialization, but in a way that doesn't jeopardize other children's safety.

That doesn't mean a 1st grade cage match necessary. It means small groups, with 1:1 supervision, with soft furniture, and consenting peers. My child's body is not another child's practice mat.

[Anonymous]

The "just go to virtual school" suggestions seem really misguided. Has it occurred to any of you that some of the kids struggling with emotional regulation, socialization, and anxiety may be having these issues in part due to being stuck at home and/or in virtual school during key developmental stages?

Cue people saying "my kid did virtual during Covid and is fine." Yes, but kids need different things.

My kid does not throw chairs or do anything violent. She does have emotional regulation issues and we are working hard to address them. I often wonder if we would be dealing with this if her kindergarten year hadn't been online. That was a really hard year for her and she HATED virtual school. She's also an only child and really needs socialization, which we have always been able to get her, except during that K year when everyone around us was afraid to let their kids go to playgrounds or interact with other children (seriously, deserted playgrounds for the entire year, people wore masks outside even after they were vaccinated, no one did playdates). We moved, but it took time and and DD was still virtual for the whole year. Plus of course the move was it's own stressor.

My point is -- if you are concerned about dysregulated kids in your child's classroom, suggesting virtual school as a solution just kicks the can down the road. At some point these kids will need to interact with other people (including your child) and if they've NEVER had the chance to practice being in classroom environments or peer social environments, their behavior is going to get worse, not better.

[Anonymous]

Where are the school resource officers in all this? Classrooms may need another adult to help the teacher when there are problem behaviors that endanger others. Sort of like marshals on airline flights to keep everyone safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "just go to virtual school" suggestions seem really misguided. Has it occurred to any of you that some of the kids struggling with emotional regulation, socialization, and anxiety may be having these issues in part due to being stuck at home and/or in virtual school during key developmental stages?

Cue people saying "my kid did virtual during Covid and is fine." Yes, but kids need different things.

My kid does not throw chairs or do anything violent. She does have emotional regulation issues and we are working hard to address them. I often wonder if we would be dealing with this if her kindergarten year hadn't been online. That was a really hard year for her and she HATED virtual school. She's also an only child and really needs socialization, which we have always been able to get her, except during that K year when everyone around us was afraid to let their kids go to playgrounds or interact with other children (seriously, deserted playgrounds for the entire year, people wore masks outside even after they were vaccinated, no one did playdates). We moved, but it took time and and DD was still virtual for the whole year. Plus of course the move was it's own stressor.

My point is -- if you are concerned about dysregulated kids in your child's classroom, suggesting virtual school as a solution just kicks the can down the road. At some point these kids will need to interact with other people (including your child) and if they've NEVER had the chance to practice being in classroom environments or peer social environments, their behavior is going to get worse, not better.

The people advocating for virtual school don't care that they are pushing the problem down the road. If the child isn't in their kids class, then it's not impacting their kid so all is well. The future issues are someone elses problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "just go to virtual school" suggestions seem really misguided. Has it occurred to any of you that some of the kids struggling with emotional regulation, socialization, and anxiety may be having these issues in part due to being stuck at home and/or in virtual school during key developmental stages?

Cue people saying "my kid did virtual during Covid and is fine." Yes, but kids need different things.

My kid does not throw chairs or do anything violent. She does have emotional regulation issues and we are working hard to address them. I often wonder if we would be dealing with this if her kindergarten year hadn't been online. That was a really hard year for her and she HATED virtual school. She's also an only child and really needs socialization, which we have always been able to get her, except during that K year when everyone around us was afraid to let their kids go to playgrounds or interact with other children (seriously, deserted playgrounds for the entire year, people wore masks outside even after they were vaccinated, no one did playdates). We moved, but it took time and and DD was still virtual for the whole year. Plus of course the move was it's own stressor.

My point is -- if you are concerned about dysregulated kids in your child's classroom, suggesting virtual school as a solution just kicks the can down the road. At some point these kids will need to interact with other people (including your child) and if they've NEVER had the chance to practice being in classroom environments or peer social environments, their behavior is going to get worse, not better.

Kids need to have their violent dysregulation under control BEFORE entering the classroom. Violence in the classroom is not okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "just go to virtual school" suggestions seem really misguided. Has it occurred to any of you that some of the kids struggling with emotional regulation, socialization, and anxiety may be having these issues in part due to being stuck at home and/or in virtual school during key developmental stages?

Cue people saying "my kid did virtual during Covid and is fine." Yes, but kids need different things.

My kid does not throw chairs or do anything violent. She does have emotional regulation issues and we are working hard to address them. I often wonder if we would be dealing with this if her kindergarten year hadn't been online. That was a really hard year for her and she HATED virtual school. She's also an only child and really needs socialization, which we have always been able to get her, except during that K year when everyone around us was afraid to let their kids go to playgrounds or interact with other children (seriously, deserted playgrounds for the entire year, people wore masks outside even after they were vaccinated, no one did playdates). We moved, but it took time and and DD was still virtual for the whole year. Plus of course the move was it's own stressor.

My point is -- if you are concerned about dysregulated kids in your child's classroom, suggesting virtual school as a solution just kicks the can down the road. At some point these kids will need to interact with other people (including your child) and if they've NEVER had the chance to practice being in classroom environments or peer social environments, their behavior is going to get worse, not better.

We draw the line at violent. A child with severe behavioral issues is not going to just "pick it up" or "practice" just by being in a classroom. They need significant, hands on coaching. An elementary school teacher is not equipped, nor has the bandwidth to help them with these issues. Leaving these kids in regular classrooms IS kicking the can down the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.

Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.

In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.

All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.

To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.

I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.

For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.

Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.

If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.

Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.

It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.

From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.

You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.

I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.

It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.

But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.

I have a hard time believing this is a serious argument. If COVID taught us anything, at a minimum it's that virtual schooling is not what we want if we hope kids to mature. That's something that even Republicans and Democrats can agree on. And unless that government stipend can cover health insurance, 401(k) contributions, and lost earning potential, putting your career on a back burner seems like a polite way of saying women should go back in the kitchen where they belong. Thanks, but no thanks to all of your creative suggestions.

What a lot of people experienced during COVID was national emergency level virtual school. The average teacher didn't want to be doing it and also didn't know how. These classes didn't have the proper support or resources.

This is extremely different from the good online schools that exist today.

You are just very wrong. You cannot isolate a young elementary child from peers and expect them to learn how to become emotionally stable human beings with therapy and parenting. They need supports AND socialization, but in a way that doesn't jeopardize other children's safety.

That doesn't mean a 1st grade cage match necessary. It means small groups, with 1:1 supervision, with soft furniture, and consenting peers. My child's body is not another child's practice mat.

Yes, we're not disagreeing here. That's what "in a way that doesn't jeopardize other children's safety" meant. A child that has shown repeatedly that they cannot control violent outbursts should not be in a mainstream classroom. Even with 1:1 supervision, it is too disruptive to the learning environment. I'm not saying they should be shipped off to a special needs school forever, but mainstreaming violent children and using restorative justice only (not in conjunction with other methods) normalizes violence and hurts everyone in the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?

Be thankful that your child has the ability to self-regulate - this child does not want to be "bad"
Have compassion and teach your child compassion
Have your child ask the student if there is any thing that helps calm them down that they can help with

If your are looking for other "recourse" - maybe pull your child and enroll them in private school?

Where’s the compassion for the other children in the class? Allowing this to continue does no good for anyone. Not the teachers, not the other students, not the chair thrower. Your compassion is misplaced and misguided. Tolerating this behaviour does not benefit the chair-thrower.

This. The poster who says your recourse is to pull your child and enroll them in private school is an A$$. My kid has a right to go to public school and not be subjected to repeated violent behavior by another child in the room and never addressed. Ridiculous on a level that I can't even fathom.

This, and what the PP said. Tolerating violent behavior does not benefit ANYONE. It must be addressed fully and consistently now, before he's older and one cannot take a chair (or worse) away from him without fear of injury.

[Anonymous]

So who is home with the child assisting with this virtual education? This is such an unreasonable and expensive solution.

Advocate for one on one aides for these children in the classroom. I have a friend with a violent kid and he does well in the classroom with his personal aide. There has not been a single incident at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?

Be thankful that your child has the ability to self-regulate - this child does not want to be "bad"
Have compassion and teach your child compassion
Have your child ask the student if there is any thing that helps calm them down that they can help with

If your are looking for other "recourse" - maybe pull your child and enroll them in private school?

Where’s the compassion for the other children in the class? Allowing this to continue does no good for anyone. Not the teachers, not the other students, not the chair thrower. Your compassion is misplaced and misguided. Tolerating this behaviour does not benefit the chair-thrower.

This. The poster who says your recourse is to pull your child and enroll them in private school is an A$$. My kid has a right to go to public school and not be subjected to repeated violent behavior by another child in the room and never addressed. Ridiculous on a level that I can't even fathom.

This, and what the PP said. Tolerating violent behavior does not benefit ANYONE. It must be addressed fully and consistently now, before he's older and one cannot take a chair (or worse) away from him without fear of injury.

And the other child, violent or not, has the same right to public education, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.

Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.

In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.

All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.

To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.

I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.

For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.

Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.

If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.

Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.

It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.

From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.

You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.

I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.

It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.

But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.

Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.

Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.

Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.

In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.

All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.

To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.

I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.

For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.

Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.

If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.

Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.

It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.

From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.

You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.

I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.

It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.

But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.

I have a hard time believing this is a serious argument. If COVID taught us anything, at a minimum it's that virtual schooling is not what we want if we hope kids to mature. That's something that even Republicans and Democrats can agree on. And unless that government stipend can cover health insurance, 401(k) contributions, and lost earning potential, putting your career on a back burner seems like a polite way of saying women should go back in the kitchen where they belong. Thanks, but no thanks to all of your creative suggestions.

What a lot of people experienced during COVID was national emergency level virtual school. The average teacher didn't want to be doing it and also didn't know how. These classes didn't have the proper support or resources.

This is extremely different from the good online schools that exist today.

You are just very wrong. You cannot isolate a young elementary child from peers and expect them to learn how to become emotionally stable human beings with therapy and parenting. They need supports AND socialization, but in a way that doesn't jeopardize other children's safety.

That doesn't mean a 1st grade cage match necessary. It means small groups, with 1:1 supervision, with soft furniture, and consenting peers. My child's body is not another child's practice mat.

I would love that! I don't know a single parent of an ND kid who wouldn't. This is pretty much never on the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So who is home with the child assisting with this virtual education? This is such an unreasonable and expensive solution.

Advocate for one on one aides for these children in the classroom. I have a friend with a violent kid and he does well in the classroom with his personal aide. There has not been a single incident at school.

How is virtual education any more unreasonable or expensive than a one on one aide? A one on one aide could certainly help with virtual education.