Is Karen considered a racial slur?

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Yes. Racist and sexist. When you take a term associated with a specific race, age, gender, or nationality and use it to negatively describe an action, that term is a slur.

A “Karen” refers to a white, older woman. Using a term that reflects age, race, and gender to denigrate another is using the term as a slur.

Our society doesn’t look at it like a slur, because it’s seen as socially acceptable to denigrate white women. Same with the term “Becky”.

I call people out on it all the time. We should be encouraging women to use their voices.


100, even when -- or maybe especially when -- that is a group of women who have been silenced and told that what they have should is good enough for them.



Karens are infraction vigilantes, we don’t need “hall monitors” in society. I don’t encourage this speaking and those [people] need to stop trying to control others.


+1 (with correction)


Do we need hall monitors to correct the hall monitors? Maybe just leave people alone.


That's the entire point.


You don’t accomplish that by name calling. You’re no better.
Anonymous
I don’t think we need a gendered and nonspecific blanket word for someone who is annoying, aggressive, racist, naggy etc etc etc. If someone is being racist it should be called out as racism, if someone is being rude it should be called out as that.

It’s a messy term with no clear definition.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes. Racist and sexist. When you take a term associated with a specific race, age, gender, or nationality and use it to negatively describe an action, that term is a slur.

A “Karen” refers to a white, older woman. Using a term that reflects age, race, and gender to denigrate another is using the term as a slur.

Our society doesn’t look at it like a slur, because it’s seen as socially acceptable to denigrate white women. Same with the term “Becky”.

I call people out on it all the time. We should be encouraging women to use their voices.


100, even when -- or maybe especially when -- that is a group of women who have been silenced and told that what they have should is good enough for them.



Karens are infraction vigilantes, we don’t need “hall monitors” in society. I don’t encourage this speaking and those [people] need to stop trying to control others.


+1 (with correction)


Do we need hall monitors to correct the hall monitors? Maybe just leave people alone.


That's the entire point.


You don’t accomplish that by name calling. You’re no better.


I don't go around in public calling people anything. ??
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think we need a gendered and nonspecific blanket word for someone who is annoying, aggressive, racist, naggy etc etc etc. If someone is being racist it should be called out as racism, if someone is being rude it should be called out as that.

It’s a messy term with no clear definition.


You don't like Richard/Dick?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Let’s break it down, and to do so we have to start with Becky first, then Karen second.

Merriam-Webster defines “Becky” as “a white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.”

A Becky is “a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse”—and there are five distinct categories of them.

Notable Beckys include Taylor Swift, each Kardashian, and every white woman named ‘Amber.’ Not every white woman is a Becky, of course. But all Beckys are white women.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Karen is, at it’s heart, just the word people use for someone bossy and entitled. Someone authoritarian and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business.

Racial slur, eh nope. Focus on the behavior.



If you don’t understand this definition, you are most likely a Becky.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Great example is the Central Park woman who called the police on the black birdwatcher last year because he asked her to leash her dog.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think we need a gendered and nonspecific blanket word for someone who is annoying, aggressive, racist, naggy etc etc etc. If someone is being racist it should be called out as racism, if someone is being rude it should be called out as that.

It’s a messy term with no clear definition.


Completely agree
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Yes. It is directed at one race in particular.


+1. This is an awful slur that is for some reason tolerated. I appreciate that teacher shutting it down.


This is a bit dramatic, and honestly exactly the reason people use it to describe a certain kind of person. It's on the level of calling someone a busy body. Calling it a slur is disrespectful to the experience of people who actually get slurs lobbed at them, and is typical centering behavior of exactly the kind of person who gets called a Karen.


I view “Karen” as a way to silence women. Particularly middle aged, white women. So maybe you don’t think it’s a slur, but I do.


Also, women right here on this website have expressed fear that speaking up about anything will get them labeled a “Karen”. It’s not ok to silence women in this way. Use your words if you think someone is misbehaving. Using a slur like “Karen” is frankly just lazy and dumb.


Karen is a word 🙄 It's not actually hurting you.


Would you say that about all words?



Karen is also someone’s NAME. I personally think that is wrong to use someone’s name like in such an unkind way.


True! It must suck to be named Karen right now -- and there are a lot of people (usually white probably, given it's a Scandi name I think?) named Karen. It was very popular at one point.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think we need a gendered and nonspecific blanket word for someone who is annoying, aggressive, racist, naggy etc etc etc. If someone is being racist it should be called out as racism, if someone is being rude it should be called out as that.

It’s a messy term with no clear definition.


+1. I think a lot of posters are ignoring that this is a name, that people were given long before it had negative connotations. “Dick” is not really the same because it’s a nickname, so you could start going by Richard or whatever (my grandfather actually did this - he was “Dick” for as long as I can remember, but stopped when I was maybe a teenager). What is a 40 yr old woman supposed to do about her name being Karen?

It’s gross and misogynistic and I actually can’t believe any woman would defend the use of this name as a derogatory term. It’s hard enough to be an aging woman, must we make it harder??
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Rich white women want to be oppressed so bad.


Some. Not all.


I could be considered this -- a rich white woman. (Although I am poor by DCUM standards- HHI about 150,000). And is my situation worse than a poor black woman's, on average? Hell no. Do I experience discrimination, especially in situations in which my education/wealth isn't apparent? 1000%


Do you flex your “power” when you talk down to others?


Well, my first instinct is to say no -- not consciously.
But if I reflect more, maybe I do? For example: I have a chronically ill child. I know how to manage their condition. A person at a lab recently gave instructions for something that would result in my kid having inaccurate test results. The woman who was administering (also white, if it matter) was very insistent. I called the doctor and had the doctor tell the woman the woman was doing the test wrong. Does that count?


Depends on how you said it.


This is really helpful.
And I agree, like anything, it could be said obnoxiously.
But as a woman, I DO feel like there's been undue pressure on me to not be "too much" and to make myself small, and not ask too much of others..
If it's really easy for me to come across as "extra" when asking for something for my literally ill child as her mother, because I was about to pay money and waste time and give my kid pain for something that was about to be useless because the woman didn't now how to do her job... I mean, I DO think I asked "nicely" but I wonder about a system in which that is the case.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let’s break it down, and to do so we have to start with Becky first, then Karen second.

Merriam-Webster defines “Becky” as “a white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.”

A Becky is “a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse”—and there are five distinct categories of them.

Notable Beckys include Taylor Swift, each Kardashian, and every white woman named ‘Amber.’ Not every white woman is a Becky, of course. But all Beckys are white women.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Karen is, at it’s heart, just the word people use for someone bossy and entitled. Someone authoritarian and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business.

Racial slur, eh nope. Focus on the behavior.



If you don’t understand this definition, you are most likely a Becky.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Great example is the Central Park woman who called the police on the black birdwatcher last year because he asked her to leash her dog.


The "and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business" part is one thing, but isn't the bolded basically a way that women, regardless of race, have been silenced for years? E.g., a woman is a b&tch/aggressive while a man is assertive?

Maybe it's not the term that is the problem. Maybe the problem is that we have a problem as a society with women speaking up.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let’s break it down, and to do so we have to start with Becky first, then Karen second.

Merriam-Webster defines “Becky” as “a white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.”

A Becky is “a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse”—and there are five distinct categories of them.

Notable Beckys include Taylor Swift, each Kardashian, and every white woman named ‘Amber.’ Not every white woman is a Becky, of course. But all Beckys are white women.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Karen is, at it’s heart, just the word people use for someone bossy and entitled. Someone authoritarian and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business.

Racial slur, eh nope. Focus on the behavior.



If you don’t understand this definition, you are most likely a Becky.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Great example is the Central Park woman who called the police on the black birdwatcher last year because he asked her to leash her dog.


The "and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business" part is one thing, but isn't the bolded basically a way that women, regardless of race, have been silenced for years? E.g., a woman is a b&tch/aggressive while a man is assertive?

Maybe it's not the term that is the problem. Maybe the problem is that we have a problem as a society with women speaking up.


PP here -- correcting to say:

The "and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business" part is one thing, but isn't the bolded (Karen is, at it’s heart, just the word people use for someone bossy and entitled. Someone authoritarian...) basically a way that women, regardless of race, have been silenced for years? E.g., a woman is a b&tch/aggressive while a man is assertive? A man is commanding and a natural leader, while a woman is entitled and authoritarian?

Maybe it's not the term that is the problem. Maybe the problem is that we have a problem as a society with women speaking up.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let’s break it down, and to do so we have to start with Becky first, then Karen second.

Merriam-Webster defines “Becky” as “a white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.”

A Becky is “a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse”—and there are five distinct categories of them.

Notable Beckys include Taylor Swift, each Kardashian, and every white woman named ‘Amber.’ Not every white woman is a Becky, of course. But all Beckys are white women.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Karen is, at it’s heart, just the word people use for someone bossy and entitled. Someone authoritarian and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business.

Racial slur, eh nope. Focus on the behavior.



If you don’t understand this definition, you are most likely a Becky.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Great example is the Central Park woman who called the police on the black birdwatcher last year because he asked her to leash her dog.


The problem is that people then apply it to situations that don't fit it as well as the woman in Central Park (whose name is Amy!). Yes, she was weaponizing white womanhood to try and get a black man in trouble (and therefore put him in danger because of what we all understand about police violence towards black men). But then you have people in this thread saying a Karen is just someone who acts entitle or complains to the manager.

So the result is that people equate a white woman complaining to the manager of Starbucks about her coffee order with a woman who is using her whiteness to endanger a black man. And then the sight of a middle aged white woman complaining (or asserting herself) is deemed de facto racist even if she's justified in her complaint, even if no one is in danger.

The case of the nurse who got "Karen'ed" because of a video showing her arguing with a young black man over a bike rental is a perfect example. I get not everyone knows about it, but it's a perfect example of the problem with using Karen in this way. It got trumped up as "racist Karen tries to steal Citibike from young black man" but it turns out that it was a way more nuanced situation. She'd actually rented the bike, and he was arguing that it was "his" because he'd rented it earlier. He and his friends verbally abused the nurse, who was 6 months pregnant at the time and getting off a long shift at the hospital (and wanted an e-bike for her commute home). The video that got labeled a "Karen" video actually shows the men forcibly redocking the bike she'd rented and then renting it on their own phone while she was still on it. But an online mob doxed the nurse and she wound up on leave from her job and having to temporarily move because of the incident.

So maybe the term is not as useful as you thought. Maybe we should use real words to describe actual behavior, instead of vague epithets.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It describes someone's (bad) behavior. It doesn't take away their humanity and equate them with an animal or trash. It's not a slur. It's a *response* to racism, specifically weoponized whiteness.


I disagree with your conclusion, but agree that it's very different than other racial slurs for the reasons you mentioned.

If it were only used to describe people engaged in unquestionably bad behavior, I might agree with your conclusion.

But it's become an epithet to describe any white woman over the age of about 30 who is deemed (1) sexually unattractive, and (2) unreasonably demanding. I've seen many white men use it simply to describe women they find annoying or entitled, even if they are not engaged in any racist behavior. And the there is absolutely this undercurrent that it's for middle aged white women in particular, and it's a way to shut them down and provide an excuse for not listening to them. Well middle aged and older women of all races have long experienced heightened sexism because of the misogynistic belief that the role of women is to titilate and attract men. So "Karen" has become a term used to dismiss women who are no longer filling that role, especially if she has the gall to, I don't know, complain to the manager that her coffee wasn't hot (which, for the record, is actually a perfectly reasonable thing to complain to the manager about at a coffee shop).

It might have been what you claim it is, but we live in a very misogynist society and that trumped whatever original meaning it once had.


agree


+1 agree
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m a middle aged white woman and do not consider it a racial slur. Karens are busybodies and misdemeanor vigilantes against minorities. Not sure why other middle age women want to defend this behavior and label it racist?



When did this become part of the Karen stereotype? I’m a middle aged white woman and when I first started hearing the term, I took it as a light hearted stereotype of a certain type of demanding woman. It always seemed as if the term were meant to be comical and not taken too seriously. All of a sudden it morphed into something much more sinister. That Karen was a racist who went after minorities. This wasn’t part of the original use was it?


It’s not a demanding woman. It is a woman asserting her privilege(many times it’s white woman privilege) and putting others around her in their place. It’s the contempt and distain for anyone who they view as lesser(which is everyone).


*disdain


Why attach a common name to this? Because it is an easy way to denigrate middle-aged women who simply don’t matter anymore. Why can’t you see this?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let’s break it down, and to do so we have to start with Becky first, then Karen second.

Merriam-Webster defines “Becky” as “a white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.”

A Becky is “a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse”—and there are five distinct categories of them.

Notable Beckys include Taylor Swift, each Kardashian, and every white woman named ‘Amber.’ Not every white woman is a Becky, of course. But all Beckys are white women.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Karen is, at it’s heart, just the word people use for someone bossy and entitled. Someone authoritarian and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business.

Racial slur, eh nope. Focus on the behavior.



If you don’t understand this definition, you are most likely a Becky.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Great example is the Central Park woman who called the police on the black birdwatcher last year because he asked her to leash her dog.


The problem is that people then apply it to situations that don't fit it as well as the woman in Central Park (whose name is Amy!). Yes, she was weaponizing white womanhood to try and get a black man in trouble (and therefore put him in danger because of what we all understand about police violence towards black men). But then you have people in this thread saying a Karen is just someone who acts entitle or complains to the manager.

So the result is that people equate a white woman complaining to the manager of Starbucks about her coffee order with a woman who is using her whiteness to endanger a black man. And then the sight of a middle aged white woman complaining (or asserting herself) is deemed de facto racist even if she's justified in her complaint, even if no one is in danger.

The case of the nurse who got "Karen'ed" because of a video showing her arguing with a young black man over a bike rental is a perfect example. I get not everyone knows about it, but it's a perfect example of the problem with using Karen in this way. It got trumped up as "racist Karen tries to steal Citibike from young black man" but it turns out that it was a way more nuanced situation. She'd actually rented the bike, and he was arguing that it was "his" because he'd rented it earlier. He and his friends verbally abused the nurse, who was 6 months pregnant at the time and getting off a long shift at the hospital (and wanted an e-bike for her commute home). The video that got labeled a "Karen" video actually shows the men forcibly redocking the bike she'd rented and then renting it on their own phone while she was still on it. But an online mob doxed the nurse and she wound up on leave from her job and having to temporarily move because of the incident.

So maybe the term is not as useful as you thought. Maybe we should use real words to describe actual behavior, instead of vague epithets.


Well said. How are people are defending using name calling (and a literal name) instead of just labeling behavior as whatever it is?

If you want to call Central Park Amy racist, you should! She absolutely is racist and she tried to weaponize the police against a black man trying to look at birds. Why must you call her “Karen”? Use her name, Amy, and call her what she is, racist.
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