Is Karen considered a racial slur?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever it once was, which people can't seem to agree upon, it is NOW a way to silence middle-aged white women.

Time to stop using it.

x1000. I think people won’t get this message about how offensive this term is to middle-aged women because it really is a group that doesn’t matter to anyone — not professionally, no longer care-takers now that children have grown, no longer attractive. Even young women on this thread don’t get it (maybe because you don’t like to think of this happening to you — just a thought).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a middle aged white woman and do not consider it a racial slur. Karens are busybodies and misdemeanor vigilantes against minorities. Not sure why other middle age women want to defend this behavior and label it racist?

When did this become part of the Karen stereotype? I’m a middle aged white woman and when I first started hearing the term, I took it as a light hearted stereotype of a certain type of demanding woman. It always seemed as if the term were meant to be comical and not taken too seriously. All of a sudden it morphed into something much more sinister. That Karen was a racist who went after minorities. This wasn’t part of the original use was it?

It’s not a demanding woman. It is a woman asserting her privilege(many times it’s white woman privilege) and putting others around her in their place. It’s the contempt and distain for anyone who they view as lesser(which is everyone).

*disdain

Why attach a common name to this? Because it is an easy way to denigrate middle-aged women who simply don’t matter anymore. Why can’t you see this?

Dp. They can’t see it because they are too ingrained in a system that diminishes women, while denying it’s happening. Kinda like systemic racism.. systemic misogyny is alive and well, but apparently more tolerated by DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a middle aged white woman and do not consider it a racial slur. Karens are busybodies and misdemeanor vigilantes against minorities. Not sure why other middle age women want to defend this behavior and label it racist?

When did this become part of the Karen stereotype? I’m a middle aged white woman and when I first started hearing the term, I took it as a light hearted stereotype of a certain type of demanding woman. It always seemed as if the term were meant to be comical and not taken too seriously. All of a sudden it morphed into something much more sinister. That Karen was a racist who went after minorities. This wasn’t part of the original use was it?

It’s not a demanding woman. It is a woman asserting her privilege(many times it’s white woman privilege) and putting others around her in their place. It’s the contempt and distain for anyone who they view as lesser(which is everyone).

Yes, but not just women.

But you are attributing the behavior to middle-aged women as a proxy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Racist and sexist. When you take a term associated with a specific race, age, gender, or nationality and use it to negatively describe an action, that term is a slur.

A “Karen” refers to a white, older woman. Using a term that reflects age, race, and gender to denigrate another is using the term as a slur.

Our society doesn’t look at it like a slur, because it’s seen as socially acceptable to denigrate white women. Same with the term “Becky”.

I call people out on it all the time. We should be encouraging women to use their voices.

100, even when -- or maybe especially when -- that is a group of women who have been silenced and told that what they have should is good enough for them.

Karens are infraction vigilantes, we don’t need “hall monitors” in society. I don’t encourage this speaking and those [people] need to stop trying to control others.

+1 (with correction)

Do we need hall monitors to correct the hall monitors? Maybe just leave people alone.

It has nothing to do with being a vigilante or correcting others. A Karen is going over someone's head to get what she wants. Which I am all for. That's why this is a generational thing -- in the olden days, people actually cared about others. If someone had a complaint, it was taken seriously, in most situations. Now if you complain to someone behind the counter they just go into greyrock mode and pretend they're not there. In the olden days, if you spoke to a manager about that they would be appalled and try to make it right -- because customers mattered. These days no one matters -- not the customer and not the indentured servant behind the counter and not the manager. We're all just part of the money-making machine. Irrelevant. That's why the Karen is ridiculous -- she can't accept that she means nothing in this world. Just like the rest of us.

We should all be Karens. We should all speak up and say, dammnit my experience matters.

This is the original Karen:

[Anonymous]

If a server hands you an incorrect or incomplete order, of course you should ask to have it corrected. If the server is of another race, how is that racist? The whole thing is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a middle aged white woman and do not consider it a racial slur. Karens are busybodies and misdemeanor vigilantes against minorities. Not sure why other middle age women want to defend this behavior and label it racist?

Because some people feel entitled to continue their bad behavior.

I feel like it started as a remark to police women who are being entitled and racist (unfortunately named, given how many people actually DO have the name Karen).

It’s not just the name “Karen”. I think people don’t hold this against actual people with that name. It is the fact that almost all people named Karen are a certain age, so the term is a shorthand for this group. And it is very negative towards a group of people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s break it down, and to do so we have to start with Becky first, then Karen second.

Merriam-Webster defines “Becky” as “a white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.”

A Becky is “a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse”—and there are five distinct categories of them.

Notable Beckys include Taylor Swift, each Kardashian, and every white woman named ‘Amber.’ Not every white woman is a Becky, of course. But all Beckys are white women.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Karen is, at it’s heart, just the word people use for someone bossy and entitled. Someone authoritarian and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business.

Racial slur, eh nope. Focus on the behavior.

If you don’t understand this definition, you are most likely a Becky.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Great example is the Central Park woman who called the police on the black birdwatcher last year because he asked her to leash her dog.

The problem is that people then apply it to situations that don't fit it as well as the woman in Central Park (whose name is Amy!). Yes, she was weaponizing white womanhood to try and get a black man in trouble (and therefore put him in danger because of what we all understand about police violence towards black men). But then you have people in this thread saying a Karen is just someone who acts entitle or complains to the manager.

So the result is that people equate a white woman complaining to the manager of Starbucks about her coffee order with a woman who is using her whiteness to endanger a black man. And then the sight of a middle aged white woman complaining (or asserting herself) is deemed de facto racist even if she's justified in her complaint, even if no one is in danger.

The case of the nurse who got "Karen'ed" because of a video showing her arguing with a young black man over a bike rental is a perfect example. I get not everyone knows about it, but it's a perfect example of the problem with using Karen in this way. It got trumped up as "racist Karen tries to steal Citibike from young black man" but it turns out that it was a way more nuanced situation. She'd actually rented the bike, and he was arguing that it was "his" because he'd rented it earlier. He and his friends verbally abused the nurse, who was 6 months pregnant at the time and getting off a long shift at the hospital (and wanted an e-bike for her commute home). The video that got labeled a "Karen" video actually shows the men forcibly redocking the bike she'd rented and then renting it on their own phone while she was still on it. But an online mob doxed the nurse and she wound up on leave from her job and having to temporarily move because of the incident.

So maybe the term is not as useful as you thought. Maybe we should use real words to describe actual behavior, instead of vague epithets.

I agree with all of this and especially the bolded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a middle aged white woman and do not consider it a racial slur. Karens are busybodies and misdemeanor vigilantes against minorities. Not sure why other middle age women want to defend this behavior and label it racist?

When did this become part of the Karen stereotype? I’m a middle aged white woman and when I first started hearing the term, I took it as a light hearted stereotype of a certain type of demanding woman. It always seemed as if the term were meant to be comical and not taken too seriously. All of a sudden it morphed into something much more sinister. That Karen was a racist who went after minorities. This wasn’t part of the original use was it?

It’s not a demanding woman. It is a woman asserting her privilege(many times it’s white woman privilege) and putting others around her in their place. It’s the contempt and distain for anyone who they view as lesser(which is everyone).

*disdain

Why attach a common name to this? Because it is an easy way to denigrate middle-aged women who simply don’t matter anymore. Why can’t you see this?

Dp. They can’t see it because they are too ingrained in a system that diminishes women, while denying it’s happening. Kinda like systemic racism.. systemic misogyny is alive and well, but apparently more tolerated by DCUM.

+100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rich white women want to be oppressed so bad.

Some. Not all.

I could be considered this -- a rich white woman. (Although I am poor by DCUM standards- HHI about 150,000). And is my situation worse than a poor black woman's, on average? Hell no. Do I experience discrimination, especially in situations in which my education/wealth isn't apparent? 1000%

Why does it need to be relative? The term hurts. Is it ok because it might hurt less? Is it necessary to attach this shorthand to racist behavior in order to call out bad behavior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever it once was, which people can't seem to agree upon, it is NOW a way to silence middle-aged white women.

Time to stop using it.

x1000. I think people won’t get this message about how offensive this term is to middle-aged women because it really is a group that doesn’t matter to anyone — not professionally, no longer care-takers now that children have grown, no longer attractive. Even young women on this thread don’t get it (maybe because you don’t like to think of this happening to you — just a thought).

Who are you assuming are young women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a server hands you an incorrect or incomplete order, of course you should ask to have it corrected. If the server is of another race, how is that racist? The whole thing is ridiculous.

Again, it all depends on how you interact with people. Ask nicely and don’t talk down to anyone and you’ll be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a server hands you an incorrect or incomplete order, of course you should ask to have it corrected. If the server is of another race, how is that racist? The whole thing is ridiculous.

Again, it all depends on how you interact with people. Ask nicely and don’t talk down to anyone and you’ll be fine.

Don't be an uppity woman, eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Racist and sexist. When you take a term associated with a specific race, age, gender, or nationality and use it to negatively describe an action, that term is a slur.

A “Karen” refers to a white, older woman. Using a term that reflects age, race, and gender to denigrate another is using the term as a slur.

Our society doesn’t look at it like a slur, because it’s seen as socially acceptable to denigrate white women. Same with the term “Becky”.

I call people out on it all the time. We should be encouraging women to use their voices.

100, even when -- or maybe especially when -- that is a group of women who have been silenced and told that what they have should is good enough for them.

Karens are infraction vigilantes, we don’t need “hall monitors” in society. I don’t encourage this speaking and those [people] need to stop trying to control others.

+1 (with correction)

Do we need hall monitors to correct the hall monitors? Maybe just leave people alone.

It has nothing to do with being a vigilante or correcting others. A Karen is going over someone's head to get what she wants. Which I am all for. That's why this is a generational thing -- in the olden days, people actually cared about others. If someone had a complaint, it was taken seriously, in most situations. Now if you complain to someone behind the counter they just go into greyrock mode and pretend they're not there. In the olden days, if you spoke to a manager about that they would be appalled and try to make it right -- because customers mattered. These days no one matters -- not the customer and not the indentured servant behind the counter and not the manager. We're all just part of the money-making machine. Irrelevant. That's why the Karen is ridiculous -- she can't accept that she means nothing in this world. Just like the rest of us.

We should all be Karens. We should all speak up and say, dammnit my experience matters.

This is the original Karen:

You have just applied your very own definition. This is not what everyone means. The insult is meaningless if everyone uses it differently. Karen is sometimes just asking to be treated like everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Racist and sexist. When you take a term associated with a specific race, age, gender, or nationality and use it to negatively describe an action, that term is a slur.

A “Karen” refers to a white, older woman. Using a term that reflects age, race, and gender to denigrate another is using the term as a slur.

Our society doesn’t look at it like a slur, because it’s seen as socially acceptable to denigrate white women. Same with the term “Becky”.

I call people out on it all the time. We should be encouraging women to use their voices.

100, even when -- or maybe especially when -- that is a group of women who have been silenced and told that what they have should is good enough for them.

Karens are infraction vigilantes, we don’t need “hall monitors” in society. I don’t encourage this speaking and those [people] need to stop trying to control others.

+1 (with correction)

Do we need hall monitors to correct the hall monitors? Maybe just leave people alone.

It has nothing to do with being a vigilante or correcting others. A Karen is going over someone's head to get what she wants. Which I am all for. That's why this is a generational thing -- in the olden days, people actually cared about others. If someone had a complaint, it was taken seriously, in most situations. Now if you complain to someone behind the counter they just go into greyrock mode and pretend they're not there. In the olden days, if you spoke to a manager about that they would be appalled and try to make it right -- because customers mattered. These days no one matters -- not the customer and not the indentured servant behind the counter and not the manager. We're all just part of the money-making machine. Irrelevant. That's why the Karen is ridiculous -- she can't accept that she means nothing in this world. Just like the rest of us.

We should all be Karens. We should all speak up and say, dammnit my experience matters.

This is the original Karen:

Meh. Everyone is overworked and many customers are so rude. Just be chill, people. You get back what you out out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Racist and sexist. When you take a term associated with a specific race, age, gender, or nationality and use it to negatively describe an action, that term is a slur.

A “Karen” refers to a white, older woman. Using a term that reflects age, race, and gender to denigrate another is using the term as a slur.

Our society doesn’t look at it like a slur, because it’s seen as socially acceptable to denigrate white women. Same with the term “Becky”.

I call people out on it all the time. We should be encouraging women to use their voices.

100, even when -- or maybe especially when -- that is a group of women who have been silenced and told that what they have should is good enough for them.

Karens are infraction vigilantes, we don’t need “hall monitors” in society. I don’t encourage this speaking and those [people] need to stop trying to control others.

+1 (with correction)

Do we need hall monitors to correct the hall monitors? Maybe just leave people alone.

It has nothing to do with being a vigilante or correcting others. A Karen is going over someone's head to get what she wants. Which I am all for. That's why this is a generational thing -- in the olden days, people actually cared about others. If someone had a complaint, it was taken seriously, in most situations. Now if you complain to someone behind the counter they just go into greyrock mode and pretend they're not there. In the olden days, if you spoke to a manager about that they would be appalled and try to make it right -- because customers mattered. These days no one matters -- not the customer and not the indentured servant behind the counter and not the manager. We're all just part of the money-making machine. Irrelevant. That's why the Karen is ridiculous -- she can't accept that she means nothing in this world. Just like the rest of us.

We should all be Karens. We should all speak up and say, dammnit my experience matters.

This is the original Karen:

You have just applied your very own definition. This is not what everyone means. The insult is meaningless if everyone uses it differently. Karen is sometimes just asking to be treated like everyone else.

Says the person making up a whole new definition of the word.