"Not a Meritocracy"

[Anonymous]

Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trying to gauge the gap between expectations and reality here. If you are Big 3 and your kid got say 1490 with typical grades for someone with that score (not absolutely perfect), where would you hope they could get in (examples of schools) and where are they actually getting in?

This is all over the map (academically & geographically): Denison, College of the Holy Cross, Santa Clara, Brandeis, Pitt, St. Olaf, DePaul, University of Rhode Island, University of New Hampshire

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

You're gross.

Different poster here who has had high schoolers at both a Big3 and JR (formally Wilson). The Big3 requires at least 4 times the work that my other kids did at Wilson. It's night and day.
I have a 4th kid and we're not sure what we're going to do with this kid as I think the sweat spot is somewhere between the two options we've tried so far.

[Anonymous]

Kids of privilege getting into HYPS is same as it ever was. I remember how stressful this time of year is for parents of seniors. It only takes one school that is a good fit for your child OP. Fingers crossed that RD works out well for you OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

You're gross.

Different poster here who has had high schoolers at both a Big3 and JR (formally Wilson). The Big3 requires at least 4 times the work that my other kids did at Wilson. It's night and day.
I have a 4th kid and we're not sure what we're going to do with this kid as I think the sweat spot is somewhere between the two options we've tried so far.

Still gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

Ok, but the reason I quoted those acceptance rates is to show that this isn’t about private school or public school kids. It’s about the fact that acceptance rates have plummeted — and basically become more random — over the past few years. For everyone.

If only admissions would require people take a test that only wealthy people could afford to prep for...

You don’t need to be wealthy to prep effectively for the SAT, dolt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flippant comments of the HOS are all the more infuriating when the fact is that most of the Big3 parents I know are not wringing their hands because their kid isn't getting into Harvard or Duke or Stanford. They are worried because their child, who has good grades, test scores, ECs, recs, etc., and who is busted their butt in school for the last four years, is getting deferred from Wisconsin, Tufts, Emory and Georgia. These are all good schools and 2-3 years ago, a strong (but not superstar) student at a Big 3 would have been an auto admit. But now these kids are being deferred. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but many families are really questioning whether the slog of a Big 3 high school is worth it.

Tufts acceptance rate is 13% and Emory is 14%. Why would anyone be an auto-admit?

Ok, "auto admit" was a poor choice of words and is obviously rankling some people. My point was just that good, but not tippy top, schools that strong Big 3 students were accepted at regularly a few years ago are now seeing many, many deferrals. These threads always imply that Big 3 parents have their panties in a bunch because their special snowflake is not getting into Yale. That is absolutely not what's happening, by and large. Most Big 3 parents send their kids to these schools because they believe in the education. But is it hard to see your kid work herself to the bone for four years and get deferred from Wisconsin when her neighbor down the street -- an equally smart, engaging and accomplished kid -- who did minimal work at Wilson gets in.

By the way, my kids are in early HS and MS, so I'm just sharing experiences of friends and am looking ahead for my own kids.

Ok, but the reason I quoted those acceptance rates is to show that this isn’t about private school or public school kids. It’s about the fact that acceptance rates have plummeted — and basically become more random — over the past few years. For everyone.

If only admissions would require people take a test that only wealthy people could afford to prep for...

You don’t need to be wealthy to prep effectively for the SAT, dolt.

There must be a reason why people pay $350/hour for tutoring.

[Anonymous]

For the most part, college admission is a meritocracy. That's why you see rich parents pay someone to take SAT for their kids. In academic settings, you can't really fake it at some point.

But in the corporate world, there are no rules. Rich parents can get their kids internships and jobs. Networking and nepotism are much more prevalent in the real world outside of the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When oh when have elite college admissions ever been a meritocracy?

A brief period, more or less, from 1965 to 1998, I’d say. Starting from when the Ivy League opened up. It ended when the glut of millenials showed up and the colleges realized that so long as demand outstripped supply they could play whatever stupid games they wanted with admissions and still keep their selectivity scores up.

Doubtful. Money always played a part. I only went to college because of loans and scholarships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

So Eaton isn’t considered elite? You learn something new everyday

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

PPP. PP says your kid isn't a commoner, and your response is that you're pretty plain vanilla? That's kind of funny, but if you're paying for big 3 tuition, your child is indeed not a commoner. It's really nice that you kid works hard, although it's a bit off to keep repeating that your child works harder than their public school neighbors for the same grades, unless it's to say your child is having learning difficulties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad state of affairs that educators are now openly saying we don’t have a meritocracy. What do we have? An oligarchy?

If has always been an oligarchy. That literally why these school have a reputation as "Elite."

Yes, but that is a perverse rotten use of the term Elite.
Other Western countries equate the word Elite with intellectual Elite, particularly when it comes to higher education.
Oligarchy, power only shared between a few, is about money.

OP’s child isn’t a commoner.

What nonsense is this? Troll. Why bother to write? Get a hobby!

I am the OP and we are unhooked and pretty plain vanilla. Our kid has worked their tail off at the Upper School and has excellent grades. I understand that I have been naive about how that would play in admissions. Results are dismal. And no, we do not feel entitled to anything because our kid is a Big3 that costs a lot of money to attend. I do, however, believe they, and all kids, deserve a fair shot, though. And to see the kids of privilege get into HYPS in the current climate (where hardly anyone else is admitted there (so far) is hard to take. And on top of that, to see the HOS blame only externalities and not ask questions about what the school is or isn't doing well -- that's just some shit, I hate to say.

I agree with the PPs who point out that RD may work out well for the many kids who have been disappointed thus far. I hope so.

Np. You paid $50k a year to get your kid into a good college. Indeed you are outraged that you are not getting this expected outcome. But classmate larlo’s parents paid an extra $50million to some T20 get their kid into a super great college. And you somehow think that is unfair? You have no moral ground to stand on. You are a hypocrite. You tried to buy your kid a leg up on the public school kids and you lost. You think public school kid parents should similarly resent you for buying your kids way into a better school? I’m sure in that case your argument would be ‘well we all want to give our kids the best opportunities.’