Started working at an elementary school last week. Shocked and sad. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I for one am grateful to the parents of the kids with dyslexia who have pretty much been the only group fighting for effective reading instruction for years. Without their efforts my child would have been another victim of the Lucy Calkins/ Fountas & Pinnell nonsense.

Universal design for instruction helps all learners.

People aren’t talking about dyslexia. They’re talking about kids who scream, disrupt class so no one else can learn, throw chairs, etc.

But then, you already knew that.

Kids with dyslexia can become the disruptive child after years of inappropriate instruction and shaming by being told to “just try harder”. These aren’t clean categories of disabilities. Unaddressed learning disabilities turn into anxiety and depression. Anxiety in kids can take many forms, some of them very disruptive.

But I guess you didn’t know that or care.

Well, when your dyslexic kid becomes physically violent and dangerous to others and starts throwing chairs and forcing the classroom to be evacuated multiple times a year, then it will become relevant to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1 Very rarely will non-teachers admit this. But NCLB/IDEA/FAPE ruined public schools in the US. The Federal Government and Congress like the publicity of “helping everyone” but provided no funding. So then all children suffer.

I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

They can start by getting all the disruptive kids out of our classrooms and back into special facilities that are equipped (no scissors, yes metal detectors, yes guards) and trained (staff with personal defense training plus deescalation techniques etc plus aides floating around) to handle them.

The problem is the students and the parents. Not the schools. Schools don’t need more money or more anything. They need less of the thing that’s destroying them, which is disruptive students.

I don’t disagree that disruptive or violent kids don’t belong in mainstream classrooms and that FAPE needs a *massive* overhaul, but there is already a teacher shortage, and a dire teacher shortage in special ed. Where exactly are you planning to get all the teachers and staff for these metal detector schools again?

Obviously the teachers in those special schools will be paid more. There will be teachers signing up for that. Many of them deal with it already for only regular pay. Other teachers will come back to the profession when they see the conditions improving in the mainstream schools.

And as for the money, it won’t take $22k average per student anymore in mainstream classes once they remove the disruptive kids. That extra money can offset the cost of the special schools (or home visits which might be a better approach to educating those kids).

LOL! No, there won’t. You live in a fantasy world. Join the rest of us in reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

DP- but it’s not disingenuous. There are standards for inclusion. You don’t know them (full stop. Clear from your post) don’t know the process for removal of a child from gen Ed, and so you don’t know what you are fighting against and certainly don’t have a well thought out alternative.

Yes, it is disingenuous, and you doubling down on it is even more disingenuous. Kids in wheelchairs, with hearing aids, with dyslexia aren’t violent and are t preventing 30 other kids from learning.

If there aren’t special schools, then violent kids belong in virtual school. We have the facility to do that now, so use it. Let their parents deal with the physical danger created by their own kid, not 29 other young kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

Do you know how condescending this sounds, that teachers should basically work for the love of the job as opposed to making decent wages? Would you take on more challenging work at your job without additional compensation? Let’s be real there are definitely sexist connotations to this concept of teachers (predominantly women) taking on the work for the love of children. No one would talk like this about a male-dominated industry.

What emotional drivel. There are absolutely men teaching at these schools that I was thinking about when I wrote this post. But if changing the subject makes you feel better about stomping on SN kids. Cool. No amount of reason will help you.

I have a SN kid (ADHD/ASD) so don’t talk to me about “stomping on SN kids” And I never said men don’t teach at these schools, but that teaching is a female dominant profession. If you want to debate that then you’re a loony tune. But regardless of gender, I still don’t think teachers should be forced to take on kids who are dangerous/severely disrupting just because the “love of children.” And look at the Newport News teacher who was freaking shot despite numerous red flags. Some kids don’t belong in general education settings and if my child could not reasonably participate in class I would hope other parents/the teacher would be documenting things to help get my child moved to an appropriate setting. I have NT kids as well so I can see both sides of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

I don't think it's disingenuous. It wasn't long ago that physically disabled people could not access schools or other public resources., whether they were intellectually able or not. We can all agree that was wrong. Also, not too long ago, black people were not allowed to attend the publicly funded schools. Very wrong.

Now we are talking if kids who are disruptive/violent or special needs can attend school?

I don't want violence around my child, but where the distiction is made is impossible. Profoundly SN kids do have schools here in DC. Kids who are traumatized/on spectrum/LD probably do belong in public school. Private has been the option for people who want their kids insulated.

It’s really gross that some posters keep trying to insist that having violent or highly verbally disruptive kids in the classroom is the same thing as having a child in a wheel chair sitting there or good forbid a black child (?!!) in the classroom. There’s something really wrong with you if you honestly think that.

The distinction is clear - when the teacher has to literally stop classes to reprimand someone, try to keep them on task, chase them because they ran outside, evacuate all tye other kids in the classroom because a child is screaming or destroying things. Those kids clearly do not belong in the classroom. Kids who stop the teachers from teaching do not belong in the classroom. They are the kids we’re talking about.

YES. And god forbid you say it out loud, you will be shamed. This came up recently in a mom group and the mom posted about her daughter's learning being interrupted constantly because of chair throwing and constant evacuations. She was bullied so hard on her post... everything was "well think about the poor kid that's throwing chairs and injuring others" and "this is the most ableist post ever". She was literally shredded. I felt bad for her. What about her kid? Doesn't she deserve to learn free from fear of getting whacked in the head with a flying object? What about the other 20 kids that deserve that as well?

We went through this last year in 1st grade and it was wild. I emailed and called the principal when I found out how frequently my DD's classroom was getting evacuated. Sometimes multiple times a day. Those kids were not learning and whatever they were doing to try to keep the behavior kid calmed down was not working and I demanded more. The response was that they couldn't or wouldn't. So it was an absolute dumpster fire of a year. And guess what? My DD's teacher quit teaching after that year. We wonder why there's a teacher shortage. I wouldn't put up with the BS either.

This is when all parents in the classroom with impacted kids need to rally together and fight back as a group. Daily communications to the school and superintendents. Attending every school board meeting and making a racket. Any child injured, their parent files a police report. Your children are entitled to FAPE too.

Sadly, by law, they’re not, and that needs to change. The laws need a VAST overhaul, so they actually begin to intersect with reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Informal AMA thread. I am already shocked and saddened by the state of public elementary. This is in a wealthy suburb. There’s is a free lunch contingent but test scores are excellent and if you watch morning drop off it’s a lot of luxury vehicles.

I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher. I’ve heard 7 year olds using language I’d feel guilty about even repeating! I’ve watched teacher be kicked and punched and slapped, again by 6 and 7 year olds! And the hot lunches shocked me. The other day I watched one kid eat the following for lunch: giant chocolate chip muffin, chocolate milk, sugary Dannon yogurt, low fat string cheese. This is a “balanced” meal provided by the school.

Maybe I am just out of touch, but I feel many typical parents would be surprised to hear what elementary school is like for their kids.

Nothing here ^ is talking about a wriggly kid.

Not the OP but there are lots of PP talking about the teachers needing to give reminders to kids and kids calling out in class. Lots of things are disruptive but few merit special placement. I think the school lunch discussion and language, while not great! And not what I want for my kid! are not the same as violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

Keep running your mouth like that. Enjoy your rotating cast of unqualified subs. (not the quoted PP)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

I don't think it's disingenuous. It wasn't long ago that physically disabled people could not access schools or other public resources., whether they were intellectually able or not. We can all agree that was wrong. Also, not too long ago, black people were not allowed to attend the publicly funded schools. Very wrong.

Now we are talking if kids who are disruptive/violent or special needs can attend school?

I don't want violence around my child, but where the distiction is made is impossible. Profoundly SN kids do have schools here in DC. Kids who are traumatized/on spectrum/LD probably do belong in public school. Private has been the option for people who want their kids insulated.

Excuse me? “Where the distinction is made” wrt violence is NOT impossible. Are they hurting others or not? Next.

Nailed it. Mic drop.

And yes, we KNOW this isn’t the current law. That needs to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

Do you know how condescending this sounds, that teachers should basically work for the love of the job as opposed to making decent wages? Would you take on more challenging work at your job without additional compensation? Let’s be real there are definitely sexist connotations to this concept of teachers (predominantly women) taking on the work for the love of children. No one would talk like this about a male-dominated industry.

What emotional drivel. There are absolutely men teaching at these schools that I was thinking about when I wrote this post. But if changing the subject makes you feel better about stomping on SN kids. Cool. No amount of reason will help you.

No. The idiocy of “teachers should be martyrs and it’s not about the money. It’s about the chiiiiiiildreeeeen” is manipulative emotional drivel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is central office won't allow a child to be removed. Even if you have tons of data. Ask me how I know

For a violent kid who has hurt others? B.S.

Chair throwers stay for months and years until a chair hits someone. No thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

I don't think it's disingenuous. It wasn't long ago that physically disabled people could not access schools or other public resources., whether they were intellectually able or not. We can all agree that was wrong. Also, not too long ago, black people were not allowed to attend the publicly funded schools. Very wrong.

Now we are talking if kids who are disruptive/violent or special needs can attend school?

I don't want violence around my child, but where the distiction is made is impossible. Profoundly SN kids do have schools here in DC. Kids who are traumatized/on spectrum/LD probably do belong in public school. Private has been the option for people who want their kids insulated.

Excuse me? “Where the distinction is made” wrt violence is NOT impossible. Are they hurting others or not? Next.

OK. So tell me what age, what violence, what consequence. Make the distinctions. If you have a kid in school, you must know that little kids often lack impulse control, and hit and shove each other. Is that enough to get moved to your hypothetically funded special school, which by the way you would never vote to pay for. Yet you want magically for "bad kids" to disappear from your child's realm? Nothing happens without work -- your work. Other people are out there doing it.

So, tell me how this plan works, and by age. We have a disruptive chair-thrower. At what point is he taken out of your child's classroom? What ages does this policy apply to? Where does the excommunicated child go? What standards are applied to make sure this is done in a fair manner? What fantasy world do you live in? Do you only want to complain, without solutions? Why aren't you rich enough to solve your own problems?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by causing the classroom to be evacuated? Is the student hurting other people? If so you need to get involved. Others have posted re how to get results - see posts up thread.

When a student becomes violent, or acts out in a way that is dangerously disruptive, like throwing things and flipping desks, the entire rest of the class has to leave. They don't remove the child; they remove everyone else. It's hugely disruptive and upsetting to many kids.

This is nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1 Very rarely will non-teachers admit this. But NCLB/IDEA/FAPE ruined public schools in the US. The Federal Government and Congress like the publicity of “helping everyone” but provided no funding. So then all children suffer.

I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

They can start by getting all the disruptive kids out of our classrooms and back into special facilities that are equipped (no scissors, yes metal detectors, yes guards) and trained (staff with personal defense training plus deescalation techniques etc plus aides floating around) to handle them.

The problem is the students and the parents. Not the schools. Schools don’t need more money or more anything. They need less of the thing that’s destroying them, which is disruptive students.

It's really a little bit of both. The system is based on the hypocritical assumption that everyone, no matter their intellectual endowment and motivation, is going to learn essentially all the same things at the same time for 13 years. Some idiots even push the notion of college for all when the reality is that by high school, the only function of school for the bottom quarter is to keep them off the street and out of trouble. They see no purpose in being there and spend their time trying to escape or causing trouble inside the institution.
One thing we do need is solid vocational tracks in lieu of college prep high school for a substantial part of the population. That would avoid a lot of baristas and receptionists with 50k in college debt that they then want the government to forgive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

Hahaha no. At our school, the older, more senior teachers get the AP and Honors classes so they have to deal with SN and behaviors as little as possible. And teachers chose to teach in private schools for a whole host of reasons, which include things like significantly smaller class sizes (as in half the size in some cases), less paperwork and bureaucracy, and sometimes simply not being able to get a public school job.

Your ridiculous statement is like saying that doctors should treat everybody and lawyers should defend everybody regardless of whether they can pay their medical and legal bills.

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I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

Hahaha no. At our school, the older, more senior teachers get the AP and Honors classes so they have to deal with SN and behaviors as little as possible. And teachers chose to teach in private schools for a whole host of reasons, which include things like significantly smaller class sizes (as in half the size in some cases), less paperwork and bureaucracy, and sometimes simply not being able to get a public school job.

Your ridiculous statement is like saying that doctors should treat everybody and lawyers should defend everybody regardless of whether they can pay their medical and legal bills.

It’s more like saying that doctors should treat everyone, even those that are violent towards them. Nobody expects doctors to put up with physical or even verbal abuse to do their jobs. They have restraints and haldol for that.