Question for the anti-bike / anti-bus people

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I want to support bikers and alternative methods of transportation, but the infrastructure is inadequate to do this safely and bikers want it both ways - obey the traffic laws when it’s in their interest and not when it’s not. Bikers traveling quickly alongside cars, darting out between cars, and not obeying road signs is anxiety provoking. Also, sometimes I just do not see them. If bikers are in the countryside on a heavily traveled road, like Georgetown Pike, they’re taking their lives in their hands. People don’t want to travel the Pike at 15mph and going around them can be treacherous and unreasonable with high traffic levels. Again, I want to support bikers, but I find that their presence on roadways is anxiety-provoking and oftentimes dangerous.

This. Is. Why. They. Want. Protected. Lanes.

For the dozen bikers each morning?

Why not create a path via side streets closed to commuters?

You’re funny because you just have a hard time admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about but will argue to the death anyway.

I

Having seen this play out in a few instances, the honest answer to your question is that, whenever bike lanes along the side streets more often than not requires the removal of residential parking spots. For most neighborhoods in DC, this is a third rail. The political opposition becomes almost impossible for DDOT to overcome. Installing bike lanes along mixed zones like Connecticut Ave is actually a lot easier politically for DDOT. Despite the protestations of the MD commuter class, they don't vote in DC elections.

You are acting as if dc residents don’t drive to work. They do.

A minority of DC commuters drive to work. Check the census stats on this.

Not any more. Post-COVID, 49% of commuters drive alone, an increase from 39% in 2019. A further 2% carpool. So now it’s a majority.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your story. Cool story anyway bro.

Interestingly, you don’t accompany these claims with any reference whatsoever.

It’s funny that every time you try to use data it just shows how ignorant you are. If you are going to claim to know something, at least know what you are talking about. It’s like you are projecting the fact that you make up stats so you think everyone does. You are obviously not aware of the MWCOG.

Lots of angry words. Not a single reference. Without one, we should assume your data is made up.

MWCOG = Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

Not surprised that you are unaware of their regional transportation surveys.

How nice you can spell out an acronym. Too bad that you've failed yet again to produce a link to an actual survey result.

Also, "Metropolitan Washington" encompasses but is distinct from DC. The Census Bureau is the most reliable source of statistics for the modes used by commuters who live and work in DC. Their statistics disagree with you.

I’m not going to provide a link to their website or provide you any other additional info about MWCOG. I’m just going to sit back and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself. LOL.

Of course, you're not going to provide a link! It's a rather hard thing to do when you make things up.

If you don’t know who the MWCOG and what their role is in regional transportation policy then you have nothing of value to say about this subject. Furthermore, it’s just comical that you cannot even figure out how to use Google to find out for yourself.

It’s like you’re fully committed to ignorance. Which I kind of respect in a way.

You don't understand the distinction between DC and the "National Capital Region", do you? So much for ignorance . . .

Also, the 2022 MCWOG statistics you are so enamored with (https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2022/09/20/state-of-the-commute-survey-report--carsharing-state-of-the-commute-telework-travel-surveys/) do not agree with you. See page 14 of the 2022 report.

Bravo that you have finally figured out how to use Google. Unfortunately you don’t know how to read. The chart on p.14 includes telework. Baby steps. You’ll get there.

This is funny. The sampling frame for the MWCOG survey differs from the reference population in question. But even that survey contradicts your argument. So you just pulled numbers off the top of your head so that you could win a point on some meaningless debate on DCUM?

I don’t have “an argument”. I have presented survey data from MWCOG that shows that people commuting to work riding alone in cars increased from a pre-pandemic 39% to a current 49%. This was in response to you claiming that a “minority” of DC residents use cars to commute. This is no longer true. You seem to have a serious cognitive problem with this fact, like nervous breakdown level problem, which is hilarious. I’m enjoying it. So keep it up.

DP. Well that much is abundantly clear. I've seen better command of logic and rhetoric at middle school forensics competitions, and yet you feel that you're in a position to condescend. Yikes...

I know understand what your deal is. You think that life is high school debate club and that facts are malleable in service of some sort of “argument”. I am sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes facts are just facts. Like the fact that the majority of DC residents use cars to get to work in the year 2022. Apparently this is an inconvenient fact to you, but you know, sometimes the truth is scary and we have have to deal with it.

NP here, but the fact that most D.C. residents use cars to get to work doesn't automatically mean all transportation policy should be oriented around encouraging driving. Part of the point of changing road design is to make it easier for people who can drive less to do so. Starting from that premise, it doesn't matter that more people drive than bike or take transit.

DC has invested hundreds of millions over the past decade in promoting alternate modes, including bikes. The result is that the number of people who prefer to travel via personal car has increased. 🤷‍♀️

It's interesting that the city has spent so much time and money promoting bikes and still so few people ride them. The city will buy people bikes, and people are like "no thanks."

It's the fastest growing form of transportation in the city. What in the world are you talking about?

I’m going to need a citation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/how-washington-d-c-built-a-bike-boom

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/08/21/904667532/d-c-s-bike-boom-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-amid-the-pandemic

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

None of these links provide any actual data to support your statement that it is the “fastest growing form of transportation in the city”. The MWCOG survey from 2019 to 2022 found no change in the modal share of bicycle commuters.

I wonder what else happened between 2019 and 2022 that could have distorted those statistics.

You'd think bicycling would have gained on other forms of transportation, if only because people were afraid to be in close quarters with other people on subways, buses, ubers, etc. Instead the share of people biking declined.

The share of people commuting in general declined. Are you really this dumb or are you pulling an elaborate prank on the rest of us?

And you're bad at logic. Obviously the number of people commuting fell. But you'd expect a bigger share of those who were still commuting to use bikes since people were afraid to use the subway and buses and any other mode of transportation that put them in a close quarters with other people. That should have been a golden opportunity for cycling to pick up market share. Instead the opposite happened. Biking became even less popular, which is pretty astounding.

Not only that, driving became even more popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to support bikers and alternative methods of transportation, but the infrastructure is inadequate to do this safely and bikers want it both ways - obey the traffic laws when it’s in their interest and not when it’s not. Bikers traveling quickly alongside cars, darting out between cars, and not obeying road signs is anxiety provoking. Also, sometimes I just do not see them. If bikers are in the countryside on a heavily traveled road, like Georgetown Pike, they’re taking their lives in their hands. People don’t want to travel the Pike at 15mph and going around them can be treacherous and unreasonable with high traffic levels. Again, I want to support bikers, but I find that their presence on roadways is anxiety-provoking and oftentimes dangerous.

This. Is. Why. They. Want. Protected. Lanes.

For the dozen bikers each morning?

Why not create a path via side streets closed to commuters?

You’re funny because you just have a hard time admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about but will argue to the death anyway.

I

Having seen this play out in a few instances, the honest answer to your question is that, whenever bike lanes along the side streets more often than not requires the removal of residential parking spots. For most neighborhoods in DC, this is a third rail. The political opposition becomes almost impossible for DDOT to overcome. Installing bike lanes along mixed zones like Connecticut Ave is actually a lot easier politically for DDOT. Despite the protestations of the MD commuter class, they don't vote in DC elections.

You are acting as if dc residents don’t drive to work. They do.

A minority of DC commuters drive to work. Check the census stats on this.

Not any more. Post-COVID, 49% of commuters drive alone, an increase from 39% in 2019. A further 2% carpool. So now it’s a majority.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your story. Cool story anyway bro.

Interestingly, you don’t accompany these claims with any reference whatsoever.

It’s funny that every time you try to use data it just shows how ignorant you are. If you are going to claim to know something, at least know what you are talking about. It’s like you are projecting the fact that you make up stats so you think everyone does. You are obviously not aware of the MWCOG.

Lots of angry words. Not a single reference. Without one, we should assume your data is made up.

MWCOG = Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

Not surprised that you are unaware of their regional transportation surveys.

How nice you can spell out an acronym. Too bad that you've failed yet again to produce a link to an actual survey result.

Also, "Metropolitan Washington" encompasses but is distinct from DC. The Census Bureau is the most reliable source of statistics for the modes used by commuters who live and work in DC. Their statistics disagree with you.

I’m not going to provide a link to their website or provide you any other additional info about MWCOG. I’m just going to sit back and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself. LOL.

Of course, you're not going to provide a link! It's a rather hard thing to do when you make things up.

If you don’t know who the MWCOG and what their role is in regional transportation policy then you have nothing of value to say about this subject. Furthermore, it’s just comical that you cannot even figure out how to use Google to find out for yourself.

It’s like you’re fully committed to ignorance. Which I kind of respect in a way.

You don't understand the distinction between DC and the "National Capital Region", do you? So much for ignorance . . .

Also, the 2022 MCWOG statistics you are so enamored with (https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2022/09/20/state-of-the-commute-survey-report--carsharing-state-of-the-commute-telework-travel-surveys/) do not agree with you. See page 14 of the 2022 report.

Bravo that you have finally figured out how to use Google. Unfortunately you don’t know how to read. The chart on p.14 includes telework. Baby steps. You’ll get there.

This is funny. The sampling frame for the MWCOG survey differs from the reference population in question. But even that survey contradicts your argument. So you just pulled numbers off the top of your head so that you could win a point on some meaningless debate on DCUM?

I don’t have “an argument”. I have presented survey data from MWCOG that shows that people commuting to work riding alone in cars increased from a pre-pandemic 39% to a current 49%. This was in response to you claiming that a “minority” of DC residents use cars to commute. This is no longer true. You seem to have a serious cognitive problem with this fact, like nervous breakdown level problem, which is hilarious. I’m enjoying it. So keep it up.

DP. Well that much is abundantly clear. I've seen better command of logic and rhetoric at middle school forensics competitions, and yet you feel that you're in a position to condescend. Yikes...

I know understand what your deal is. You think that life is high school debate club and that facts are malleable in service of some sort of “argument”. I am sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes facts are just facts. Like the fact that the majority of DC residents use cars to get to work in the year 2022. Apparently this is an inconvenient fact to you, but you know, sometimes the truth is scary and we have have to deal with it.

NP here, but the fact that most D.C. residents use cars to get to work doesn't automatically mean all transportation policy should be oriented around encouraging driving. Part of the point of changing road design is to make it easier for people who can drive less to do so. Starting from that premise, it doesn't matter that more people drive than bike or take transit.

DC has invested hundreds of millions over the past decade in promoting alternate modes, including bikes. The result is that the number of people who prefer to travel via personal car has increased. 🤷‍♀️

It's interesting that the city has spent so much time and money promoting bikes and still so few people ride them. The city will buy people bikes, and people are like "no thanks."

It's the fastest growing form of transportation in the city. What in the world are you talking about?

I’m going to need a citation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/how-washington-d-c-built-a-bike-boom

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/08/21/904667532/d-c-s-bike-boom-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-amid-the-pandemic

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

None of these links provide any actual data to support your statement that it is the “fastest growing form of transportation in the city”. The MWCOG survey from 2019 to 2022 found no change in the modal share of bicycle commuters.

I wonder what else happened between 2019 and 2022 that could have distorted those statistics.

You'd think bicycling would have gained on other forms of transportation, if only because people were afraid to be in close quarters with other people on subways, buses, ubers, etc. Instead the share of people biking declined.

The share of people commuting in general declined. Are you really this dumb or are you pulling an elaborate prank on the rest of us?

And you're bad at logic. Obviously the number of people commuting fell. But you'd expect a bigger share of those who were still commuting to use bikes since people were afraid to use the subway and buses and any other mode of transportation that put them in a close quarters with other people. That should have been a golden opportunity for cycling to pick up market share. Instead the opposite happened. Biking became even less popular, which is pretty astounding.

Not only that, driving became even more popular.

Drill baby drill!! Let's have more hummers on the road! Yee haw! We're so cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to support bikers and alternative methods of transportation, but the infrastructure is inadequate to do this safely and bikers want it both ways - obey the traffic laws when it’s in their interest and not when it’s not. Bikers traveling quickly alongside cars, darting out between cars, and not obeying road signs is anxiety provoking. Also, sometimes I just do not see them. If bikers are in the countryside on a heavily traveled road, like Georgetown Pike, they’re taking their lives in their hands. People don’t want to travel the Pike at 15mph and going around them can be treacherous and unreasonable with high traffic levels. Again, I want to support bikers, but I find that their presence on roadways is anxiety-provoking and oftentimes dangerous.

This. Is. Why. They. Want. Protected. Lanes.

For the dozen bikers each morning?

Why not create a path via side streets closed to commuters?

You’re funny because you just have a hard time admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about but will argue to the death anyway.

I

Having seen this play out in a few instances, the honest answer to your question is that, whenever bike lanes along the side streets more often than not requires the removal of residential parking spots. For most neighborhoods in DC, this is a third rail. The political opposition becomes almost impossible for DDOT to overcome. Installing bike lanes along mixed zones like Connecticut Ave is actually a lot easier politically for DDOT. Despite the protestations of the MD commuter class, they don't vote in DC elections.

You are acting as if dc residents don’t drive to work. They do.

A minority of DC commuters drive to work. Check the census stats on this.

Not any more. Post-COVID, 49% of commuters drive alone, an increase from 39% in 2019. A further 2% carpool. So now it’s a majority.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your story. Cool story anyway bro.

Interestingly, you don’t accompany these claims with any reference whatsoever.

It’s funny that every time you try to use data it just shows how ignorant you are. If you are going to claim to know something, at least know what you are talking about. It’s like you are projecting the fact that you make up stats so you think everyone does. You are obviously not aware of the MWCOG.

Lots of angry words. Not a single reference. Without one, we should assume your data is made up.

MWCOG = Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

Not surprised that you are unaware of their regional transportation surveys.

How nice you can spell out an acronym. Too bad that you've failed yet again to produce a link to an actual survey result.

Also, "Metropolitan Washington" encompasses but is distinct from DC. The Census Bureau is the most reliable source of statistics for the modes used by commuters who live and work in DC. Their statistics disagree with you.

I’m not going to provide a link to their website or provide you any other additional info about MWCOG. I’m just going to sit back and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself. LOL.

Of course, you're not going to provide a link! It's a rather hard thing to do when you make things up.

If you don’t know who the MWCOG and what their role is in regional transportation policy then you have nothing of value to say about this subject. Furthermore, it’s just comical that you cannot even figure out how to use Google to find out for yourself.

It’s like you’re fully committed to ignorance. Which I kind of respect in a way.

You don't understand the distinction between DC and the "National Capital Region", do you? So much for ignorance . . .

Also, the 2022 MCWOG statistics you are so enamored with (https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2022/09/20/state-of-the-commute-survey-report--carsharing-state-of-the-commute-telework-travel-surveys/) do not agree with you. See page 14 of the 2022 report.

Bravo that you have finally figured out how to use Google. Unfortunately you don’t know how to read. The chart on p.14 includes telework. Baby steps. You’ll get there.

This is funny. The sampling frame for the MWCOG survey differs from the reference population in question. But even that survey contradicts your argument. So you just pulled numbers off the top of your head so that you could win a point on some meaningless debate on DCUM?

I don’t have “an argument”. I have presented survey data from MWCOG that shows that people commuting to work riding alone in cars increased from a pre-pandemic 39% to a current 49%. This was in response to you claiming that a “minority” of DC residents use cars to commute. This is no longer true. You seem to have a serious cognitive problem with this fact, like nervous breakdown level problem, which is hilarious. I’m enjoying it. So keep it up.

DP. Well that much is abundantly clear. I've seen better command of logic and rhetoric at middle school forensics competitions, and yet you feel that you're in a position to condescend. Yikes...

I know understand what your deal is. You think that life is high school debate club and that facts are malleable in service of some sort of “argument”. I am sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes facts are just facts. Like the fact that the majority of DC residents use cars to get to work in the year 2022. Apparently this is an inconvenient fact to you, but you know, sometimes the truth is scary and we have have to deal with it.

NP here, but the fact that most D.C. residents use cars to get to work doesn't automatically mean all transportation policy should be oriented around encouraging driving. Part of the point of changing road design is to make it easier for people who can drive less to do so. Starting from that premise, it doesn't matter that more people drive than bike or take transit.

DC has invested hundreds of millions over the past decade in promoting alternate modes, including bikes. The result is that the number of people who prefer to travel via personal car has increased. 🤷‍♀️

It's interesting that the city has spent so much time and money promoting bikes and still so few people ride them. The city will buy people bikes, and people are like "no thanks."

It's the fastest growing form of transportation in the city. What in the world are you talking about?

I’m going to need a citation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/how-washington-d-c-built-a-bike-boom

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/08/21/904667532/d-c-s-bike-boom-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-amid-the-pandemic

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

None of these links provide any actual data to support your statement that it is the “fastest growing form of transportation in the city”. The MWCOG survey from 2019 to 2022 found no change in the modal share of bicycle commuters.

I wonder what else happened between 2019 and 2022 that could have distorted those statistics.

You'd think bicycling would have gained on other forms of transportation, if only because people were afraid to be in close quarters with other people on subways, buses, ubers, etc. Instead the share of people biking declined.

The share of people commuting in general declined. Are you really this dumb or are you pulling an elaborate prank on the rest of us?

And you're bad at logic. Obviously the number of people commuting fell. But you'd expect a bigger share of those who were still commuting to use bikes since people were afraid to use the subway and buses and any other mode of transportation that put them in a close quarters with other people. That should have been a golden opportunity for cycling to pick up market share. Instead the opposite happened. Biking became even less popular, which is pretty astounding.

Not only that, driving became even more popular.

Drill baby drill!! Let's have more hummers on the road! Yee haw! We're so cool.

Sure. The EV Hummers are pretty cool and thanks to Biden and the Democrats passing the Inflation Reduction Act, they will be more popular on the roads as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to support bikers and alternative methods of transportation, but the infrastructure is inadequate to do this safely and bikers want it both ways - obey the traffic laws when it’s in their interest and not when it’s not. Bikers traveling quickly alongside cars, darting out between cars, and not obeying road signs is anxiety provoking. Also, sometimes I just do not see them. If bikers are in the countryside on a heavily traveled road, like Georgetown Pike, they’re taking their lives in their hands. People don’t want to travel the Pike at 15mph and going around them can be treacherous and unreasonable with high traffic levels. Again, I want to support bikers, but I find that their presence on roadways is anxiety-provoking and oftentimes dangerous.

This. Is. Why. They. Want. Protected. Lanes.

For the dozen bikers each morning?

Why not create a path via side streets closed to commuters?

You’re funny because you just have a hard time admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about but will argue to the death anyway.

I

Having seen this play out in a few instances, the honest answer to your question is that, whenever bike lanes along the side streets more often than not requires the removal of residential parking spots. For most neighborhoods in DC, this is a third rail. The political opposition becomes almost impossible for DDOT to overcome. Installing bike lanes along mixed zones like Connecticut Ave is actually a lot easier politically for DDOT. Despite the protestations of the MD commuter class, they don't vote in DC elections.

You are acting as if dc residents don’t drive to work. They do.

A minority of DC commuters drive to work. Check the census stats on this.

Not any more. Post-COVID, 49% of commuters drive alone, an increase from 39% in 2019. A further 2% carpool. So now it’s a majority.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your story. Cool story anyway bro.

Interestingly, you don’t accompany these claims with any reference whatsoever.

It’s funny that every time you try to use data it just shows how ignorant you are. If you are going to claim to know something, at least know what you are talking about. It’s like you are projecting the fact that you make up stats so you think everyone does. You are obviously not aware of the MWCOG.

Lots of angry words. Not a single reference. Without one, we should assume your data is made up.

MWCOG = Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

Not surprised that you are unaware of their regional transportation surveys.

How nice you can spell out an acronym. Too bad that you've failed yet again to produce a link to an actual survey result.

Also, "Metropolitan Washington" encompasses but is distinct from DC. The Census Bureau is the most reliable source of statistics for the modes used by commuters who live and work in DC. Their statistics disagree with you.

I’m not going to provide a link to their website or provide you any other additional info about MWCOG. I’m just going to sit back and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself. LOL.

Of course, you're not going to provide a link! It's a rather hard thing to do when you make things up.

If you don’t know who the MWCOG and what their role is in regional transportation policy then you have nothing of value to say about this subject. Furthermore, it’s just comical that you cannot even figure out how to use Google to find out for yourself.

It’s like you’re fully committed to ignorance. Which I kind of respect in a way.

You don't understand the distinction between DC and the "National Capital Region", do you? So much for ignorance . . .

Also, the 2022 MCWOG statistics you are so enamored with (https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2022/09/20/state-of-the-commute-survey-report--carsharing-state-of-the-commute-telework-travel-surveys/) do not agree with you. See page 14 of the 2022 report.

Bravo that you have finally figured out how to use Google. Unfortunately you don’t know how to read. The chart on p.14 includes telework. Baby steps. You’ll get there.

This is funny. The sampling frame for the MWCOG survey differs from the reference population in question. But even that survey contradicts your argument. So you just pulled numbers off the top of your head so that you could win a point on some meaningless debate on DCUM?

I don’t have “an argument”. I have presented survey data from MWCOG that shows that people commuting to work riding alone in cars increased from a pre-pandemic 39% to a current 49%. This was in response to you claiming that a “minority” of DC residents use cars to commute. This is no longer true. You seem to have a serious cognitive problem with this fact, like nervous breakdown level problem, which is hilarious. I’m enjoying it. So keep it up.

DP. Well that much is abundantly clear. I've seen better command of logic and rhetoric at middle school forensics competitions, and yet you feel that you're in a position to condescend. Yikes...

I know understand what your deal is. You think that life is high school debate club and that facts are malleable in service of some sort of “argument”. I am sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes facts are just facts. Like the fact that the majority of DC residents use cars to get to work in the year 2022. Apparently this is an inconvenient fact to you, but you know, sometimes the truth is scary and we have have to deal with it.

NP here, but the fact that most D.C. residents use cars to get to work doesn't automatically mean all transportation policy should be oriented around encouraging driving. Part of the point of changing road design is to make it easier for people who can drive less to do so. Starting from that premise, it doesn't matter that more people drive than bike or take transit.

DC has invested hundreds of millions over the past decade in promoting alternate modes, including bikes. The result is that the number of people who prefer to travel via personal car has increased. 🤷‍♀️

It's interesting that the city has spent so much time and money promoting bikes and still so few people ride them. The city will buy people bikes, and people are like "no thanks."

It's the fastest growing form of transportation in the city. What in the world are you talking about?

I’m going to need a citation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/how-washington-d-c-built-a-bike-boom

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/08/21/904667532/d-c-s-bike-boom-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-amid-the-pandemic

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

None of these links provide any actual data to support your statement that it is the “fastest growing form of transportation in the city”. The MWCOG survey from 2019 to 2022 found no change in the modal share of bicycle commuters.

I wonder what else happened between 2019 and 2022 that could have distorted those statistics.

You'd think bicycling would have gained on other forms of transportation, if only because people were afraid to be in close quarters with other people on subways, buses, ubers, etc. Instead the share of people biking declined.

The share of people commuting in general declined. Are you really this dumb or are you pulling an elaborate prank on the rest of us?

And you're bad at logic. Obviously the number of people commuting fell. But you'd expect a bigger share of those who were still commuting to use bikes since people were afraid to use the subway and buses and any other mode of transportation that put them in a close quarters with other people. That should have been a golden opportunity for cycling to pick up market share. Instead the opposite happened. Biking became even less popular, which is pretty astounding.

Not only that, driving became even more popular.

Drill baby drill!! Let's have more hummers on the road! Yee haw! We're so cool.

Sure. The EV Hummers are pretty cool and thanks to Biden and the Democrats passing the Inflation Reduction Act, they will be more popular on the roads as well.

Yes! We can consume our way out of these problems. We can also raze some houses to make space for these bigger cars. Big R energy here!

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Anonymous wrote:I want to support bikers and alternative methods of transportation, but the infrastructure is inadequate to do this safely and bikers want it both ways - obey the traffic laws when it’s in their interest and not when it’s not. Bikers traveling quickly alongside cars, darting out between cars, and not obeying road signs is anxiety provoking. Also, sometimes I just do not see them. If bikers are in the countryside on a heavily traveled road, like Georgetown Pike, they’re taking their lives in their hands. People don’t want to travel the Pike at 15mph and going around them can be treacherous and unreasonable with high traffic levels. Again, I want to support bikers, but I find that their presence on roadways is anxiety-provoking and oftentimes dangerous.

This. Is. Why. They. Want. Protected. Lanes.

For the dozen bikers each morning?

Why not create a path via side streets closed to commuters?

You’re funny because you just have a hard time admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about but will argue to the death anyway.

I

Having seen this play out in a few instances, the honest answer to your question is that, whenever bike lanes along the side streets more often than not requires the removal of residential parking spots. For most neighborhoods in DC, this is a third rail. The political opposition becomes almost impossible for DDOT to overcome. Installing bike lanes along mixed zones like Connecticut Ave is actually a lot easier politically for DDOT. Despite the protestations of the MD commuter class, they don't vote in DC elections.

You are acting as if dc residents don’t drive to work. They do.

A minority of DC commuters drive to work. Check the census stats on this.

Not any more. Post-COVID, 49% of commuters drive alone, an increase from 39% in 2019. A further 2% carpool. So now it’s a majority.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your story. Cool story anyway bro.

Interestingly, you don’t accompany these claims with any reference whatsoever.

It’s funny that every time you try to use data it just shows how ignorant you are. If you are going to claim to know something, at least know what you are talking about. It’s like you are projecting the fact that you make up stats so you think everyone does. You are obviously not aware of the MWCOG.

Lots of angry words. Not a single reference. Without one, we should assume your data is made up.

MWCOG = Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

Not surprised that you are unaware of their regional transportation surveys.

How nice you can spell out an acronym. Too bad that you've failed yet again to produce a link to an actual survey result.

Also, "Metropolitan Washington" encompasses but is distinct from DC. The Census Bureau is the most reliable source of statistics for the modes used by commuters who live and work in DC. Their statistics disagree with you.

I’m not going to provide a link to their website or provide you any other additional info about MWCOG. I’m just going to sit back and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself. LOL.

Of course, you're not going to provide a link! It's a rather hard thing to do when you make things up.

If you don’t know who the MWCOG and what their role is in regional transportation policy then you have nothing of value to say about this subject. Furthermore, it’s just comical that you cannot even figure out how to use Google to find out for yourself.

It’s like you’re fully committed to ignorance. Which I kind of respect in a way.

You don't understand the distinction between DC and the "National Capital Region", do you? So much for ignorance . . .

Also, the 2022 MCWOG statistics you are so enamored with (https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2022/09/20/state-of-the-commute-survey-report--carsharing-state-of-the-commute-telework-travel-surveys/) do not agree with you. See page 14 of the 2022 report.

Bravo that you have finally figured out how to use Google. Unfortunately you don’t know how to read. The chart on p.14 includes telework. Baby steps. You’ll get there.

This is funny. The sampling frame for the MWCOG survey differs from the reference population in question. But even that survey contradicts your argument. So you just pulled numbers off the top of your head so that you could win a point on some meaningless debate on DCUM?

I don’t have “an argument”. I have presented survey data from MWCOG that shows that people commuting to work riding alone in cars increased from a pre-pandemic 39% to a current 49%. This was in response to you claiming that a “minority” of DC residents use cars to commute. This is no longer true. You seem to have a serious cognitive problem with this fact, like nervous breakdown level problem, which is hilarious. I’m enjoying it. So keep it up.

DP. Well that much is abundantly clear. I've seen better command of logic and rhetoric at middle school forensics competitions, and yet you feel that you're in a position to condescend. Yikes...

I know understand what your deal is. You think that life is high school debate club and that facts are malleable in service of some sort of “argument”. I am sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes facts are just facts. Like the fact that the majority of DC residents use cars to get to work in the year 2022. Apparently this is an inconvenient fact to you, but you know, sometimes the truth is scary and we have have to deal with it.

NP here, but the fact that most D.C. residents use cars to get to work doesn't automatically mean all transportation policy should be oriented around encouraging driving. Part of the point of changing road design is to make it easier for people who can drive less to do so. Starting from that premise, it doesn't matter that more people drive than bike or take transit.

DC has invested hundreds of millions over the past decade in promoting alternate modes, including bikes. The result is that the number of people who prefer to travel via personal car has increased. 🤷‍♀️

It's interesting that the city has spent so much time and money promoting bikes and still so few people ride them. The city will buy people bikes, and people are like "no thanks."

It's the fastest growing form of transportation in the city. What in the world are you talking about?

I’m going to need a citation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/how-washington-d-c-built-a-bike-boom

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/08/21/904667532/d-c-s-bike-boom-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-amid-the-pandemic

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

None of these links provide any actual data to support your statement that it is the “fastest growing form of transportation in the city”. The MWCOG survey from 2019 to 2022 found no change in the modal share of bicycle commuters.

I wonder what else happened between 2019 and 2022 that could have distorted those statistics.

You'd think bicycling would have gained on other forms of transportation, if only because people were afraid to be in close quarters with other people on subways, buses, ubers, etc. Instead the share of people biking declined.

The share of people commuting in general declined. Are you really this dumb or are you pulling an elaborate prank on the rest of us?

And you're bad at logic. Obviously the number of people commuting fell. But you'd expect a bigger share of those who were still commuting to use bikes since people were afraid to use the subway and buses and any other mode of transportation that put them in a close quarters with other people. That should have been a golden opportunity for cycling to pick up market share. Instead the opposite happened. Biking became even less popular, which is pretty astounding.

Nice theory. Too bad it doesn’t account for the fact that roads became much less safe for cyclists during the pandemic. If you give a damn about road safety, here’s a nice write-up of what actually happened: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/upshot/road-deaths-pedestrians-cyclists.amp.html. This is why bike lanes are necessary, not because they make up this percentage or that percentage of road traffic.

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Anonymous wrote:I want to support bikers and alternative methods of transportation, but the infrastructure is inadequate to do this safely and bikers want it both ways - obey the traffic laws when it’s in their interest and not when it’s not. Bikers traveling quickly alongside cars, darting out between cars, and not obeying road signs is anxiety provoking. Also, sometimes I just do not see them. If bikers are in the countryside on a heavily traveled road, like Georgetown Pike, they’re taking their lives in their hands. People don’t want to travel the Pike at 15mph and going around them can be treacherous and unreasonable with high traffic levels. Again, I want to support bikers, but I find that their presence on roadways is anxiety-provoking and oftentimes dangerous.

This. Is. Why. They. Want. Protected. Lanes.

For the dozen bikers each morning?

Why not create a path via side streets closed to commuters?

You’re funny because you just have a hard time admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about but will argue to the death anyway.

I

Having seen this play out in a few instances, the honest answer to your question is that, whenever bike lanes along the side streets more often than not requires the removal of residential parking spots. For most neighborhoods in DC, this is a third rail. The political opposition becomes almost impossible for DDOT to overcome. Installing bike lanes along mixed zones like Connecticut Ave is actually a lot easier politically for DDOT. Despite the protestations of the MD commuter class, they don't vote in DC elections.

You are acting as if dc residents don’t drive to work. They do.

A minority of DC commuters drive to work. Check the census stats on this.

Not any more. Post-COVID, 49% of commuters drive alone, an increase from 39% in 2019. A further 2% carpool. So now it’s a majority.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your story. Cool story anyway bro.

Interestingly, you don’t accompany these claims with any reference whatsoever.

It’s funny that every time you try to use data it just shows how ignorant you are. If you are going to claim to know something, at least know what you are talking about. It’s like you are projecting the fact that you make up stats so you think everyone does. You are obviously not aware of the MWCOG.

Lots of angry words. Not a single reference. Without one, we should assume your data is made up.

MWCOG = Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

Not surprised that you are unaware of their regional transportation surveys.

How nice you can spell out an acronym. Too bad that you've failed yet again to produce a link to an actual survey result.

Also, "Metropolitan Washington" encompasses but is distinct from DC. The Census Bureau is the most reliable source of statistics for the modes used by commuters who live and work in DC. Their statistics disagree with you.

I’m not going to provide a link to their website or provide you any other additional info about MWCOG. I’m just going to sit back and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself. LOL.

Of course, you're not going to provide a link! It's a rather hard thing to do when you make things up.

If you don’t know who the MWCOG and what their role is in regional transportation policy then you have nothing of value to say about this subject. Furthermore, it’s just comical that you cannot even figure out how to use Google to find out for yourself.

It’s like you’re fully committed to ignorance. Which I kind of respect in a way.

You don't understand the distinction between DC and the "National Capital Region", do you? So much for ignorance . . .

Also, the 2022 MCWOG statistics you are so enamored with (https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2022/09/20/state-of-the-commute-survey-report--carsharing-state-of-the-commute-telework-travel-surveys/) do not agree with you. See page 14 of the 2022 report.

Bravo that you have finally figured out how to use Google. Unfortunately you don’t know how to read. The chart on p.14 includes telework. Baby steps. You’ll get there.

This is funny. The sampling frame for the MWCOG survey differs from the reference population in question. But even that survey contradicts your argument. So you just pulled numbers off the top of your head so that you could win a point on some meaningless debate on DCUM?

I don’t have “an argument”. I have presented survey data from MWCOG that shows that people commuting to work riding alone in cars increased from a pre-pandemic 39% to a current 49%. This was in response to you claiming that a “minority” of DC residents use cars to commute. This is no longer true. You seem to have a serious cognitive problem with this fact, like nervous breakdown level problem, which is hilarious. I’m enjoying it. So keep it up.

DP. Well that much is abundantly clear. I've seen better command of logic and rhetoric at middle school forensics competitions, and yet you feel that you're in a position to condescend. Yikes...

I know understand what your deal is. You think that life is high school debate club and that facts are malleable in service of some sort of “argument”. I am sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes facts are just facts. Like the fact that the majority of DC residents use cars to get to work in the year 2022. Apparently this is an inconvenient fact to you, but you know, sometimes the truth is scary and we have have to deal with it.

NP here, but the fact that most D.C. residents use cars to get to work doesn't automatically mean all transportation policy should be oriented around encouraging driving. Part of the point of changing road design is to make it easier for people who can drive less to do so. Starting from that premise, it doesn't matter that more people drive than bike or take transit.

DC has invested hundreds of millions over the past decade in promoting alternate modes, including bikes. The result is that the number of people who prefer to travel via personal car has increased. 🤷‍♀️

But yet there are no actual statistics you can use to support that point.

2011 MWCOG survey had 33% of DC residents driving alone. In 2022 it is 49%.

LOL.

MW .= DC

You really should not post if you are going to keep embarrassing yourself. MWCOG breaks out their survey results by jurisdiction, which makes sense because DC and other regional governments are part of MWCOG and these local governments use the MWCOG survey data for transportation planning purposes.

You say that but can’t produce a single reference to back up any of your claims.

I refuse because you sadly are outside your depth. It is sad really that you just make up things in your head. The fact that you don’t even what what MWCOG is and their function is a huge red flag that I am not engaging with someone who is worth my time. You are welcome to go and read, research and learn and at that stage I would be happy to share the reports with you. If you actually cared and believe in this topic, you would do the minimum to actually learn about what you are talking about instead of shrieking and making up things. But it is clear that you don’t which is why I don’t care enough to engage with you more than at this level. It is up to you and the ball is roundly in your court.

This is a beautiful case study in gaslighting. When normal people make claims they know that they can back up with data will refer you to the document, page, and table that the data is drawn from. But then you have people like the poster here who, after being repeatedly asked to provide a reference for their claims, writes a long and strange paragraph that purports to explain why it is your problem that they can’t provide a simple citation. It’s like the kid in middle school who claimed to have all the cool toys at home but always found an excuse for not inviting any of their friends around to see them. The English language has a simple word for such people: liars.

And sure enough, if you dig out the reference that this poster is apparently referring to - the 2022 State of the Commute Survey Technical Report (https://www.mwcog.org/file.aspx?D=qghB7EAb9ACu0dAhiMjETIzwI%2bj4aUir8M%2bIvYcJrwo%3d&A=cBtFQCixckhshiVQUklOIDK4WW05Su79oStk3AKwNK0%3d), one can confirm that they are indeed engaged in naked misrepresentation.

Some of you may recall that the back and forth started when the previous poster claimed that a majority of DC resident commuted by car. Table 5 on page 21 has the statistics that answer this question, but unsurprisingly they differ from what the previous poster claimed. Among those who actually commuted - not worked from home - only 43% drove or carpooled. The proportions who biked or walked stayed more or less the same between 2019 and 2022, but the samples are very small.

So what about the 49% + 2% = 51% number that was the previous poster was harping on? This seems to come from Figure 5. This is curious for a couple of reasons. First, this is for the entire metro area, which extends to Frederick, Loudon County, Calvert, and Charles counties. Second, the 49% number is only obtained by summing the primary and secondary modes - this is not kosher because primary and secondary modes across all types gives you a number greater than 100% - double-counting in other words.

The more appropriate statistic is given by Figure 4, which displays mode shares as a percentage of weekly work days. Driving is 40% here and, again, this is for the entire metro area.

With all that said, I’m at a loss to explain why this matters in the first place. It’s not like the mode that reaches a majority - or plurality - of commutes wins all of the road space. Moreover, whether cyclists represent 2% or 5% of commuters, the share of commuters who bike to work is still a hell of a lot higher than 24 / 1500, which is the ratio of the miles of protected bike lanes to the miles of DC roads.

[Anonymous]

I thought it was common knowledge that the fanatics pushing car supremacy are liars and fools. Lots of people drive, but very few people take these loons seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you really interested in the status quo (or how it was 20 years ago)? Everyone drives everywhere? I'm having a hard time understanding how that works out from a space / traffic / environment standpoint. What's your vision?

I like driving my hybrid, and plan to continue to do so. I also do not want to live in an overly crowded. My suburban lifestyle works well for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you really interested in the status quo (or how it was 20 years ago)? Everyone drives everywhere? I'm having a hard time understanding how that works out from a space / traffic / environment standpoint. What's your vision?

I like driving my hybrid, and plan to continue to do so. I also do not want to live in an overly crowded. My suburban lifestyle works well for me.

That is fine and your choice. For those of us who live in the city, we understand that not everyone can, or wants, to have and drive a car. For us, having a safe way to navigate the city is a matter of life and death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People will always drive. Encouraging bike fanatics to share road space during peak traffic times - and I am talking specifically about bike fanatics, this is a nuisance and dangerous IMO. If you live in DC, take metro and/or walk to work. Bike miles on a bike path.

My vision is also to stop unchecked growth. Stop building and building more density that cannot be supported by current transportation and school systems and other government services.

Our country's population growth comes entirely from immigration - are you willing to reduce that?

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Anonymous wrote:I want to support bikers and alternative methods of transportation, but the infrastructure is inadequate to do this safely and bikers want it both ways - obey the traffic laws when it’s in their interest and not when it’s not. Bikers traveling quickly alongside cars, darting out between cars, and not obeying road signs is anxiety provoking. Also, sometimes I just do not see them. If bikers are in the countryside on a heavily traveled road, like Georgetown Pike, they’re taking their lives in their hands. People don’t want to travel the Pike at 15mph and going around them can be treacherous and unreasonable with high traffic levels. Again, I want to support bikers, but I find that their presence on roadways is anxiety-provoking and oftentimes dangerous.

This. Is. Why. They. Want. Protected. Lanes.

For the dozen bikers each morning?

Why not create a path via side streets closed to commuters?

You’re funny because you just have a hard time admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about but will argue to the death anyway.

I

Having seen this play out in a few instances, the honest answer to your question is that, whenever bike lanes along the side streets more often than not requires the removal of residential parking spots. For most neighborhoods in DC, this is a third rail. The political opposition becomes almost impossible for DDOT to overcome. Installing bike lanes along mixed zones like Connecticut Ave is actually a lot easier politically for DDOT. Despite the protestations of the MD commuter class, they don't vote in DC elections.

You are acting as if dc residents don’t drive to work. They do.

A minority of DC commuters drive to work. Check the census stats on this.

Not any more. Post-COVID, 49% of commuters drive alone, an increase from 39% in 2019. A further 2% carpool. So now it’s a majority.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your story. Cool story anyway bro.

Interestingly, you don’t accompany these claims with any reference whatsoever.

It’s funny that every time you try to use data it just shows how ignorant you are. If you are going to claim to know something, at least know what you are talking about. It’s like you are projecting the fact that you make up stats so you think everyone does. You are obviously not aware of the MWCOG.

Lots of angry words. Not a single reference. Without one, we should assume your data is made up.

MWCOG = Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

Not surprised that you are unaware of their regional transportation surveys.

How nice you can spell out an acronym. Too bad that you've failed yet again to produce a link to an actual survey result.

Also, "Metropolitan Washington" encompasses but is distinct from DC. The Census Bureau is the most reliable source of statistics for the modes used by commuters who live and work in DC. Their statistics disagree with you.

I’m not going to provide a link to their website or provide you any other additional info about MWCOG. I’m just going to sit back and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself. LOL.

Of course, you're not going to provide a link! It's a rather hard thing to do when you make things up.

If you don’t know who the MWCOG and what their role is in regional transportation policy then you have nothing of value to say about this subject. Furthermore, it’s just comical that you cannot even figure out how to use Google to find out for yourself.

It’s like you’re fully committed to ignorance. Which I kind of respect in a way.

You don't understand the distinction between DC and the "National Capital Region", do you? So much for ignorance . . .

Also, the 2022 MCWOG statistics you are so enamored with (https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2022/09/20/state-of-the-commute-survey-report--carsharing-state-of-the-commute-telework-travel-surveys/) do not agree with you. See page 14 of the 2022 report.

Bravo that you have finally figured out how to use Google. Unfortunately you don’t know how to read. The chart on p.14 includes telework. Baby steps. You’ll get there.

This is funny. The sampling frame for the MWCOG survey differs from the reference population in question. But even that survey contradicts your argument. So you just pulled numbers off the top of your head so that you could win a point on some meaningless debate on DCUM?

I don’t have “an argument”. I have presented survey data from MWCOG that shows that people commuting to work riding alone in cars increased from a pre-pandemic 39% to a current 49%. This was in response to you claiming that a “minority” of DC residents use cars to commute. This is no longer true. You seem to have a serious cognitive problem with this fact, like nervous breakdown level problem, which is hilarious. I’m enjoying it. So keep it up.

DP. Well that much is abundantly clear. I've seen better command of logic and rhetoric at middle school forensics competitions, and yet you feel that you're in a position to condescend. Yikes...

I know understand what your deal is. You think that life is high school debate club and that facts are malleable in service of some sort of “argument”. I am sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes facts are just facts. Like the fact that the majority of DC residents use cars to get to work in the year 2022. Apparently this is an inconvenient fact to you, but you know, sometimes the truth is scary and we have have to deal with it.

NP here, but the fact that most D.C. residents use cars to get to work doesn't automatically mean all transportation policy should be oriented around encouraging driving. Part of the point of changing road design is to make it easier for people who can drive less to do so. Starting from that premise, it doesn't matter that more people drive than bike or take transit.

DC has invested hundreds of millions over the past decade in promoting alternate modes, including bikes. The result is that the number of people who prefer to travel via personal car has increased. 🤷‍♀️

It's interesting that the city has spent so much time and money promoting bikes and still so few people ride them. The city will buy people bikes, and people are like "no thanks."

It's the fastest growing form of transportation in the city. What in the world are you talking about?

I’m going to need a citation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/how-washington-d-c-built-a-bike-boom

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/08/21/904667532/d-c-s-bike-boom-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-amid-the-pandemic

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

None of these links provide any actual data to support your statement that it is the “fastest growing form of transportation in the city”. The MWCOG survey from 2019 to 2022 found no change in the modal share of bicycle commuters.

I wonder what else happened between 2019 and 2022 that could have distorted those statistics.

You'd think bicycling would have gained on other forms of transportation, if only because people were afraid to be in close quarters with other people on subways, buses, ubers, etc. Instead the share of people biking declined.

The share of people commuting in general declined. Are you really this dumb or are you pulling an elaborate prank on the rest of us?

And you're bad at logic. Obviously the number of people commuting fell. But you'd expect a bigger share of those who were still commuting to use bikes since people were afraid to use the subway and buses and any other mode of transportation that put them in a close quarters with other people. That should have been a golden opportunity for cycling to pick up market share. Instead the opposite happened. Biking became even less popular, which is pretty astounding.

Nice theory. Too bad it doesn’t account for the fact that roads became much less safe for cyclists during the pandemic. If you give a damn about road safety, here’s a nice write-up of what actually happened: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/upshot/road-deaths-pedestrians-cyclists.amp.html. This is why bike lanes are necessary, not because they make up this percentage or that percentage of road traffic.

Traffic deaths in D.C. are down 25 percent this year. The city averages about 1 person on a bike killed per year. That's roughly equivalent to the number of Washingtonians who are eaten every year by polar bears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you really interested in the status quo (or how it was 20 years ago)? Everyone drives everywhere? I'm having a hard time understanding how that works out from a space / traffic / environment standpoint. What's your vision?

I like driving my hybrid, and plan to continue to do so. I also do not want to live in an overly crowded. My suburban lifestyle works well for me.

That is fine and your choice. For those of us who live in the city, we understand that not everyone can, or wants, to have and drive a car. For us, having a safe way to navigate the city is a matter of life and death.

And that’s what public transit is for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was common knowledge that the fanatics pushing car supremacy are liars and fools. Lots of people drive, but very few people take these loons seriously.

Half of DC residents drive alone in a personal vehicle to work. Sometimes when you point a finger it points back at you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bike, I walk, I drive, and I take the bus. I support safe and efficient modes of transit. But, we have to build the transit infrastructure for future--whatever we want that to be--not the past or the status quo.

Agreed. We need to build a public transit system for the future. That’s why prioritizing bikes over transit on our limited right of ways makes zero sense.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to support bikers and alternative methods of transportation, but the infrastructure is inadequate to do this safely and bikers want it both ways - obey the traffic laws when it’s in their interest and not when it’s not. Bikers traveling quickly alongside cars, darting out between cars, and not obeying road signs is anxiety provoking. Also, sometimes I just do not see them. If bikers are in the countryside on a heavily traveled road, like Georgetown Pike, they’re taking their lives in their hands. People don’t want to travel the Pike at 15mph and going around them can be treacherous and unreasonable with high traffic levels. Again, I want to support bikers, but I find that their presence on roadways is anxiety-provoking and oftentimes dangerous.

This. Is. Why. They. Want. Protected. Lanes.

For the dozen bikers each morning?

Why not create a path via side streets closed to commuters?

You’re funny because you just have a hard time admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about but will argue to the death anyway.

I

Having seen this play out in a few instances, the honest answer to your question is that, whenever bike lanes along the side streets more often than not requires the removal of residential parking spots. For most neighborhoods in DC, this is a third rail. The political opposition becomes almost impossible for DDOT to overcome. Installing bike lanes along mixed zones like Connecticut Ave is actually a lot easier politically for DDOT. Despite the protestations of the MD commuter class, they don't vote in DC elections.

You are acting as if dc residents don’t drive to work. They do.

A minority of DC commuters drive to work. Check the census stats on this.

Not any more. Post-COVID, 49% of commuters drive alone, an increase from 39% in 2019. A further 2% carpool. So now it’s a majority.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your story. Cool story anyway bro.

Interestingly, you don’t accompany these claims with any reference whatsoever.

It’s funny that every time you try to use data it just shows how ignorant you are. If you are going to claim to know something, at least know what you are talking about. It’s like you are projecting the fact that you make up stats so you think everyone does. You are obviously not aware of the MWCOG.

Lots of angry words. Not a single reference. Without one, we should assume your data is made up.

MWCOG = Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

Not surprised that you are unaware of their regional transportation surveys.

How nice you can spell out an acronym. Too bad that you've failed yet again to produce a link to an actual survey result.

Also, "Metropolitan Washington" encompasses but is distinct from DC. The Census Bureau is the most reliable source of statistics for the modes used by commuters who live and work in DC. Their statistics disagree with you.

I’m not going to provide a link to their website or provide you any other additional info about MWCOG. I’m just going to sit back and watch you continue to make a fool of yourself. LOL.

Of course, you're not going to provide a link! It's a rather hard thing to do when you make things up.

If you don’t know who the MWCOG and what their role is in regional transportation policy then you have nothing of value to say about this subject. Furthermore, it’s just comical that you cannot even figure out how to use Google to find out for yourself.

It’s like you’re fully committed to ignorance. Which I kind of respect in a way.

You don't understand the distinction between DC and the "National Capital Region", do you? So much for ignorance . . .

Also, the 2022 MCWOG statistics you are so enamored with (https://www.mwcog.org/documents/2022/09/20/state-of-the-commute-survey-report--carsharing-state-of-the-commute-telework-travel-surveys/) do not agree with you. See page 14 of the 2022 report.

Bravo that you have finally figured out how to use Google. Unfortunately you don’t know how to read. The chart on p.14 includes telework. Baby steps. You’ll get there.

This is funny. The sampling frame for the MWCOG survey differs from the reference population in question. But even that survey contradicts your argument. So you just pulled numbers off the top of your head so that you could win a point on some meaningless debate on DCUM?

I don’t have “an argument”. I have presented survey data from MWCOG that shows that people commuting to work riding alone in cars increased from a pre-pandemic 39% to a current 49%. This was in response to you claiming that a “minority” of DC residents use cars to commute. This is no longer true. You seem to have a serious cognitive problem with this fact, like nervous breakdown level problem, which is hilarious. I’m enjoying it. So keep it up.

DP. Well that much is abundantly clear. I've seen better command of logic and rhetoric at middle school forensics competitions, and yet you feel that you're in a position to condescend. Yikes...

I know understand what your deal is. You think that life is high school debate club and that facts are malleable in service of some sort of “argument”. I am sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes facts are just facts. Like the fact that the majority of DC residents use cars to get to work in the year 2022. Apparently this is an inconvenient fact to you, but you know, sometimes the truth is scary and we have have to deal with it.

NP here, but the fact that most D.C. residents use cars to get to work doesn't automatically mean all transportation policy should be oriented around encouraging driving. Part of the point of changing road design is to make it easier for people who can drive less to do so. Starting from that premise, it doesn't matter that more people drive than bike or take transit.

DC has invested hundreds of millions over the past decade in promoting alternate modes, including bikes. The result is that the number of people who prefer to travel via personal car has increased. 🤷‍♀️

It's interesting that the city has spent so much time and money promoting bikes and still so few people ride them. The city will buy people bikes, and people are like "no thanks."

It's the fastest growing form of transportation in the city. What in the world are you talking about?

I’m going to need a citation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/how-washington-d-c-built-a-bike-boom

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/08/21/904667532/d-c-s-bike-boom-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-amid-the-pandemic

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

None of these links provide any actual data to support your statement that it is the “fastest growing form of transportation in the city”. The MWCOG survey from 2019 to 2022 found no change in the modal share of bicycle commuters.

I wonder what else happened between 2019 and 2022 that could have distorted those statistics.

You'd think bicycling would have gained on other forms of transportation, if only because people were afraid to be in close quarters with other people on subways, buses, ubers, etc. Instead the share of people biking declined.

The share of people commuting in general declined. Are you really this dumb or are you pulling an elaborate prank on the rest of us?

And you're bad at logic. Obviously the number of people commuting fell. But you'd expect a bigger share of those who were still commuting to use bikes since people were afraid to use the subway and buses and any other mode of transportation that put them in a close quarters with other people. That should have been a golden opportunity for cycling to pick up market share. Instead the opposite happened. Biking became even less popular, which is pretty astounding.

Not only that, driving became even more popular.

Drill baby drill!! Let's have more hummers on the road! Yee haw! We're so cool.

Sure. The EV Hummers are pretty cool and thanks to Biden and the Democrats passing the Inflation Reduction Act, they will be more popular on the roads as well.

Yes! We can consume our way out of these problems. We can also raze some houses to make space for these bigger cars. Big R energy here!

LOL. This is someone that thinks we are going to degrowth our way to sustainability.

Consumption is what drove the energy transition from whale oil to petroleum and it will be what drives the transition from petroleum to renewables.

I bet it drives you mad that the sustainable future favors the suburbs. Electric cars charging in garages from solar panels on roofs. That’s sustainable prosperity. You on the other hand prefer to live like a 17th century peasant in the name of sustainability. To each their own.