Middle school magnet results?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are right it does show strong cohorts. It ALSO SHOWS that magnet quality has gone down and the Curriculum is in actuality being “watered down.”

I have read some version of this in various threads and feel the need to respond. You have no idea what is going on in these magnet programs. If you could see the breadth and depth of the curriculum, the creativity of the assignments, the rigor and challenge that stretch both understanding and knowledge, it would take your breath away. It's night and day compared to what's offered at a local MS. It makes a CTY class feel both inadequate and trivial. DC's critical thinking and writing has improved by leaps and bounds at Eastern. I assume a similar story is unfolding at TPMS.

This is the kind of education ALL of our kids deserve. We should be pushing MCPS to replicate this program in all middle schools.

This is kind of fiction. I have two children in back to back grades with one going to a magnet and one who turned down the same magnet to stay at the local school. Their experiences are not that different other than the magnet child having more homework, but it may depend on the middle school. The regular MS is very high performing, and many teachers are excellent.

That is why you don’t understand. Please try to imagine it isn’t fiction if it doesn’t specifically apply to you and your child. There are many middle schools in the county that do not provide meaningful enrichment.

Your post was over the top exaggerated: "If you could see the breadth and depth of the curriculum, the creativity of the assignments, the rigor and challenge that stretch both understanding and knowledge, it would take your breath away. It's night and day compared to what's offered at a local MS. It makes a CTY class feel both inadequate and trivial."

If your child is in a low performing middle school I'm sure the magnets will look terrific, but so would Frost, Hoover, SSI, Pyle,

I’m not that PP. I have seen CTY classes and magnet MS classes. She is not exaggerating. CTY is nice, but nothing close. Magnet middle school classes are amazing. I have not seen Pyle, Frost, etc., so again, I say that it is not a fiction, especially if you know what lower performing middle schools look like. If you have a great home middle school, enjoy! But don’t imagine that the magnets aren’t fabulous for those of us who don’t.

[Anonymous]

That post says explicitly that it may depend on the local middle school that you are comparing the magnet to but the point which you seem to have missed is that they are not that unique and special in the county. You can have a great enriched program locally which is what MCPS should aim to be doing for all the highly able students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sligo MS also has similar number of highly-abled kids to Pyle although it has less than half the student population of Pyle. Sligo has only 700 kids at that school. It really makes you think differently about Pyle when you look at these numbers.

I suspect that Pyle suffers from "brain drain" caused by the siphoning off of highly-abled students into private schools in the area. Westland too.

I concur with the “brain drain” thesis because I live in-boundary for Westland. There are A LOT of kids who attend privates in the neighborhood.

When I look at the raw numbers from that table, what it basically shows me is a map of high educational attainment immigrants and white professionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That post says explicitly that it may depend on the local middle school that you are comparing the magnet to but the point which you seem to have missed is that they are not that unique and special in the county. You can have a great enriched program locally which is what MCPS should aim to be doing for all the highly able students.

No, I’m not communicating well.
What I’m trying to say is that schools with a strong cohort can provide great enrichment but that there are many schools that don’t have that. The principals don’t care and there are only a few kids eligible for the enriched classes. They get little to nothing. Therefore, the magnet classes look amazing. I also concur with the PP that some enrichment, like CTY, pales in comparison to the depth and challenge of the middle school magnet classes. They really are great.

Totally agree that local and quality enrichment is the main goal. But the magnets provide an important function for students who don’t have a strong home school.

[Anonymous]

I, for one, believe that higher performing students without a similarly talented cohort of classmates should be airlifted out of that school. Not even a lottery. Just get them out and put them somewhere they can grow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, believe that higher performing students without a similarly talented cohort of classmates should be airlifted out of that school. Not even a lottery. Just get them out and put them somewhere they can grow

Absolutely. Every high performing student in a high FARMS school should be offered the choice to enroll in a magnet program and they should just create enough seats to make this happen. Or alternatively, create more magnet programs in high FARMS schools and reserve seats for every high performing student in the host school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, believe that higher performing students without a similarly talented cohort of classmates should be airlifted out of that school. Not even a lottery. Just get them out and put them somewhere they can grow

Absolutely. Every high performing student in a high FARMS school should be offered the choice to enroll in a magnet program and they should just create enough seats to make this happen. Or alternatively, create more magnet programs in high FARMS schools and reserve seats for every high performing student in the host school.

I don't see any point in trying to re-create the magnet curriculum where there are just 1-3 high performers. Just offer those few a chance to work at their level and not the level of their lower performing classmates.

And if you are the parent of a 99% kid worried that a magnet full of 91% kids may impede your child's progress - just try imagining being the parent of an 91% kid in a school where most everyone else is performing at 50% or lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, believe that higher performing students without a similarly talented cohort of classmates should be airlifted out of that school. Not even a lottery. Just get them out and put them somewhere they can grow

Absolutely. Every high performing student in a high FARMS school should be offered the choice to enroll in a magnet program and they should just create enough seats to make this happen. Or alternatively, create more magnet programs in high FARMS schools and reserve seats for every high performing student in the host school.

I don't see any point in trying to re-create the magnet curriculum where there are just 1-3 high performers. Just offer those few a chance to work at their level and not the level of their lower performing classmates.

And if you are the parent of a 99% kid worried that a magnet full of 91% kids may impede your child's progress - just try imagining being the parent of an 91% kid in a school where most everyone else is performing at 50% or lower.

Substitute the words "just 1-3 special needs students" in that sentence and see how it lies with you. Remember, IEPs aren't just "[working] at their level."

Alternately, if it's good enough for those 1-3, why not for some 20 or 30 in a different school? Offering something to one group but not the other is inherently inequitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, believe that higher performing students without a similarly talented cohort of classmates should be airlifted out of that school. Not even a lottery. Just get them out and put them somewhere they can grow

Absolutely. Every high performing student in a high FARMS school should be offered the choice to enroll in a magnet program and they should just create enough seats to make this happen. Or alternatively, create more magnet programs in high FARMS schools and reserve seats for every high performing student in the host school.

I don't see any point in trying to re-create the magnet curriculum where there are just 1-3 high performers. Just offer those few a chance to work at their level and not the level of their lower performing classmates.

And if you are the parent of a 99% kid worried that a magnet full of 91% kids may impede your child's progress - just try imagining being the parent of an 91% kid in a school where most everyone else is performing at 50% or lower.

Substitute the words "just 1-3 special needs students" in that sentence and see how it lies with you. Remember, IEPs aren't just "[working] at their level."

Alternately, if it's good enough for those 1-3, why not for some 20 or 30 in a different school? Offering something to one group but not the other is inherently inequitable.

To your first point I say "Yes!! That is something to think about. Maybe those 1-3 should be airlifted into a school / program that is better for them?"

I don't get your twist on the second point? But maybe I'm just tired? I think that schools should get the resources they need to support the students they have. But if they only have 1-3 students in a given cohort then those kids should be considered for programs in schools that DO have kids with similar needs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, believe that higher performing students without a similarly talented cohort of classmates should be airlifted out of that school. Not even a lottery. Just get them out and put them somewhere they can grow

Absolutely. Every high performing student in a high FARMS school should be offered the choice to enroll in a magnet program and they should just create enough seats to make this happen. Or alternatively, create more magnet programs in high FARMS schools and reserve seats for every high performing student in the host school.

I don't see any point in trying to re-create the magnet curriculum where there are just 1-3 high performers. Just offer those few a chance to work at their level and not the level of their lower performing classmates.

And if you are the parent of a 99% kid worried that a magnet full of 91% kids may impede your child's progress - just try imagining being the parent of an 91% kid in a school where most everyone else is performing at 50% or lower.

Substitute the words "just 1-3 special needs students" in that sentence and see how it lies with you. Remember, IEPs aren't just "[working] at their level."

Alternately, if it's good enough for those 1-3, why not for some 20 or 30 in a different school? Offering something to one group but not the other is inherently inequitable.

To your first point I say "Yes!! That is something to think about. Maybe those 1-3 should be airlifted into a school / program that is better for them?"

I don't get your twist on the second point? But maybe I'm just tired? I think that schools should get the resources they need to support the students they have. But if they only have 1-3 students in a given cohort then those kids should be considered for programs in schools that DO have kids with similar needs

Agree. I probably misinterpreted your don't-recreate-magnet-for-1-to-3 to mean it would be OK to do so in a school with lots of such kids, but that a school with the 1-3 shouldn't do more than advance those kids a curricular grade (which doesn't meet the need of a GT student the way that a highly-enriched magnet/magnet-equivalent program would). MCPS shouldn't be leaving these local outliers out in the cold.

[Anonymous]

Agree. I probably misinterpreted your don't-recreate-magnet-for-1-to-3 to mean it would be OK to do so in a school with lots of such kids, but that a school with the 1-3 shouldn't do more than advance those kids a curricular grade (which doesn't meet the need of a GT student the way that a highly-enriched magnet/magnet-equivalent program would). MCPS shouldn't be leaving these local outliers out in the cold.

I'm not the PP, but I think the point is:

1) Recreate the magnet in schools with a critical mass of "highly able" students. This is easy - just add cohorted English blocked with cohorted HIGH.

2) If you don't have enough kids for that approach, reserve the magnet seats for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are right it does show strong cohorts. It ALSO SHOWS that magnet quality has gone down and the Curriculum is in actuality being “watered down.”

I have read some version of this in various threads and feel the need to respond. You have no idea what is going on in these magnet programs. If you could see the breadth and depth of the curriculum, the creativity of the assignments, the rigor and challenge that stretch both understanding and knowledge, it would take your breath away. It's night and day compared to what's offered at a local MS. It makes a CTY class feel both inadequate and trivial. DC's critical thinking and writing has improved by leaps and bounds at Eastern. I assume a similar story is unfolding at TPMS.

This is the kind of education ALL of our kids deserve. We should be pushing MCPS to replicate this program in all middle schools.

This is kind of fiction. I have two children in back to back grades with one going to a magnet and one who turned down the same magnet to stay at the local school. Their experiences are not that different other than the magnet child having more homework, but it may depend on the middle school. The regular MS is very high performing, and many teachers are excellent.

That is why you don’t understand. Please try to imagine it isn’t fiction if it doesn’t specifically apply to you and your child. There are many middle schools in the county that do not provide meaningful enrichment.

+1. There are MS schools where kids are so disrespectful for so long that teachers have given up. No local cohort for highly abled kids in these schools yet MCPS does not care they send them in these schools without providing any path forward to continue the progress. This is a sad state of affairs and failure of leadership

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are right it does show strong cohorts. It ALSO SHOWS that magnet quality has gone down and the Curriculum is in actuality being “watered down.”

I have read some version of this in various threads and feel the need to respond. You have no idea what is going on in these magnet programs. If you could see the breadth and depth of the curriculum, the creativity of the assignments, the rigor and challenge that stretch both understanding and knowledge, it would take your breath away. It's night and day compared to what's offered at a local MS. It makes a CTY class feel both inadequate and trivial. DC's critical thinking and writing has improved by leaps and bounds at Eastern. I assume a similar story is unfolding at TPMS.

This is the kind of education ALL of our kids deserve. We should be pushing MCPS to replicate this program in all middle schools.

Let me preface this by saying, yes all kids deserve this kind of education, but in the meantime this is what mcps will be doing to the magnet program in the coming years.
It will and has been watered down. When more and more people who aren’t adequately prepared or willing to do the intense work in the magnets because they are either not motivated or simply can’t do the work, the teacher and curriculum follow suit and in turn give easier and lesss challenging work to the students so that the lowest student can keep up. This is essentially watering down the prgm. Mkay do you understand what I am saying. Stay in your lane.

Can any 6th grade parents comment on this?
My child is in a non-lottery, universal screening grade. There are some families with siblings who attended the program a few years ago before the changes and they do say the classes look a bit different. In the past the magnets were a self-selected group. The students and their parents had to be pretty motivated to even apply and now it's more diverse. I don't mean just by race or SES but also but interests, background and strengths. You'll still find many drama kids and kids that are working on their novels in their spare time but it's not everyone. I'm sure some people think this is a bad thing.

What you are looking at is BOE watering down the magnet programs. They will continue to do so to the level that eventually they will be able to kill it showing no progress and value in keeping these programs. This is not by accident. This is their plan if you read between the lines in BOE meetings.

[Anonymous]

Enough already with the "watering down" talk!

Please stop treating magnet programs like they are meant to sort already cut and polished diamonds from one pile to another. They are not. Magnet programs are meant to pick diamonds out of kimberlite.

Why is this contentious at all????????

[Anonymous]

Well, that is why they are called "magnets" isn't it? Because they can pull real nickels away from a pile of wooden ones?

Old analogy I know - but that was how they described magnets when they first started. No need for magnet if you already know all of your nickels are real.