What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

I don’t know why people on this forum are such black and white thinkers. Hiking with toddlers, even in the summer, is fine. But I am from the desert and no one would take a toddler and a dog on an 8 mile hike in temperatures over 90. Desert dwellers just don’t act that way. You get up at 5 and plan to be done by 10 in the summer. The weirdest part of this is that they did not split up when they got into trouble—send the healthiest fastest adult alone to go get help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Baby was a toddler, not an infant…

Baby was like 3 days past infant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baby was a toddler, not an infant…

Baby was like 3 days past infant.

Yes, a toddler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all very straightforward - they stopped to refill their water bottles in the river. The river had toxic algae. They got very sick. Couldn't keep walking. The father said, I can't go any further and sat down. The mom tried to go for help but didn't make it far.

What are the effects of harmful algal blooms?
Harmful algal blooms can:
Produce extremely dangerous toxins that can sicken or kill people and animals


https://www.epa.gov/nutrientpollution/harmful-algal-blooms

My understanding is the toxicity is not filtered out with standard hiking water filters that hikers use. If that's true, this is a reasonable hypothesis. By itself its unlikely toxic algae would kill a healthy adult, but if it sickened them, that could have made them susceptible to other factors.

I should have noted, if the adults drank enough to experience symptoms, then the dog was almost certainly dead at that point after having drank directly from the river.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all very straightforward - they stopped to refill their water bottles in the river. The river had toxic algae. They got very sick. Couldn't keep walking. The father said, I can't go any further and sat down. The mom tried to go for help but didn't make it far.

What are the effects of harmful algal blooms?
Harmful algal blooms can:
Produce extremely dangerous toxins that can sicken or kill people and animals


https://www.epa.gov/nutrientpollution/harmful-algal-blooms

The river looks bad. No one would drink from it, even totally inexperienced hikers.

You don't drink from rivers or lakes ever. Everyone knows this.

I have to agree. We are 4 mile easy/moderate hikers, but even our elementary kids know that even the cleanest looking water can be dangerous to drink.

I’m with the heat stroke group.

I have to disagree here. For a day hike, yes you usually carry all the water that you need. We have done multi day backpacking trips in the California mountains and you simply cannot carry all the water you need to drink. You must drink from lakes and rivers. You of course filter the water and stay up-to-date on water conditions and locations of water along the route. But it is generally pretty safe in many locations.

This isn’t really relevant to this particular case since I would’ve expected them to bring all the water they need it. However experienced hikers who do multi day trips might be comfortable with drinking water in lakes/streams

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all very straightforward - they stopped to refill their water bottles in the river. The river had toxic algae. They got very sick. Couldn't keep walking. The father said, I can't go any further and sat down. The mom tried to go for help but didn't make it far.

What are the effects of harmful algal blooms?
Harmful algal blooms can:
Produce extremely dangerous toxins that can sicken or kill people and animals


https://www.epa.gov/nutrientpollution/harmful-algal-blooms

The river looks bad. No one would drink from it, even totally inexperienced hikers.

You don't drink from rivers or lakes ever. Everyone knows this.

I have to agree. We are 4 mile easy/moderate hikers, but even our elementary kids know that even the cleanest looking water can be dangerous to drink.

I’m with the heat stroke group.

I have to disagree here. For a day hike, yes you usually carry all the water that you need. We have done multi day backpacking trips in the California mountains and you simply cannot carry all the water you need to drink. You must drink from lakes and rivers. You of course filter the water and stay up-to-date on water conditions and locations of water along the route. But it is generally pretty safe in many locations.

This isn’t really relevant to this particular case since I would’ve expected them to bring all the water they need it. However experienced hikers who do multi day trips might be comfortable with drinking water in lakes/streams

NP and you aren't really disagreeing because the water is still dangerous to drink...that is why you filter it. I do not know a single person who would ever drink straight from a lake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all very straightforward - they stopped to refill their water bottles in the river. The river had toxic algae. They got very sick. Couldn't keep walking. The father said, I can't go any further and sat down. The mom tried to go for help but didn't make it far.

What are the effects of harmful algal blooms?
Harmful algal blooms can:
Produce extremely dangerous toxins that can sicken or kill people and animals


https://www.epa.gov/nutrientpollution/harmful-algal-blooms

The river looks bad. No one would drink from it, even totally inexperienced hikers.

You don't drink from rivers or lakes ever. Everyone knows this.

I have to agree. We are 4 mile easy/moderate hikers, but even our elementary kids know that even the cleanest looking water can be dangerous to drink.

I’m with the heat stroke group.

I have to disagree here. For a day hike, yes you usually carry all the water that you need. We have done multi day backpacking trips in the California mountains and you simply cannot carry all the water you need to drink. You must drink from lakes and rivers. You of course filter the water and stay up-to-date on water conditions and locations of water along the route. But it is generally pretty safe in many locations.

This isn’t really relevant to this particular case since I would’ve expected them to bring all the water they need it. However experienced hikers who do multi day trips might be comfortable with drinking water in lakes/streams

NP and you aren't really disagreeing because the water is still dangerous to drink...that is why you filter it. I do not know a single person who would ever drink straight from a lake.

But if you're talking about toxic algae - is filtering enough to get it out of the water? Even so, I'm not certain that they would have drank the water from the river, but the dog probably went in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how all the babies in Africa and other hot areas of the world survive. They accompany their mothers tied on their backs for hours every day while the mother works on field, fetches water or herds goats.
Signed somebody taking their toddlers on hikes even in July and August and they SURVIVED

Africa?

https://www.infoplease.com/world/health-statistics/infant-mortality-rates-countries

Those babies have sufficient melanin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all very straightforward - they stopped to refill their water bottles in the river. The river had toxic algae. They got very sick. Couldn't keep walking. The father said, I can't go any further and sat down. The mom tried to go for help but didn't make it far.

What are the effects of harmful algal blooms?
Harmful algal blooms can:
Produce extremely dangerous toxins that can sicken or kill people and animals


https://www.epa.gov/nutrientpollution/harmful-algal-blooms

The river looks bad. No one would drink from it, even totally inexperienced hikers.

You don't drink from rivers or lakes ever. Everyone knows this.

I have to agree. We are 4 mile easy/moderate hikers, but even our elementary kids know that even the cleanest looking water can be dangerous to drink.

I’m with the heat stroke group.

I have to disagree here. For a day hike, yes you usually carry all the water that you need. We have done multi day backpacking trips in the California mountains and you simply cannot carry all the water you need to drink. You must drink from lakes and rivers. You of course filter the water and stay up-to-date on water conditions and locations of water along the route. But it is generally pretty safe in many locations.

This isn’t really relevant to this particular case since I would’ve expected them to bring all the water they need it. However experienced hikers who do multi day trips might be comfortable with drinking water in lakes/streams

NP and you aren't really disagreeing because the water is still dangerous to drink...that is why you filter it. I do not know a single person who would ever drink straight from a lake.

But if you're talking about toxic algae - is filtering enough to get it out of the water? Even so, I'm not certain that they would have drank the water from the river, but the dog probably went in.

Right, I was thinking a filter might not remove it. I could be wrong, a quick google indicates a charcoal filter might take care of it. (I wouldn't bet my life on it!)

[Anonymous]

Is there any poison that would evade toxicology results ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there any poison that would evade toxicology results ?

Iocaine powder would be undetectable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why people on this forum are such black and white thinkers. Hiking with toddlers, even in the summer, is fine. But I am from the desert and no one would take a toddler and a dog on an 8 mile hike in temperatures over 90. Desert dwellers just don’t act that way. You get up at 5 and plan to be done by 10 in the summer. The weirdest part of this is that they did not split up when they got into trouble—send the healthiest fastest adult alone to go get help.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why people on this forum are such black and white thinkers. Hiking with toddlers, even in the summer, is fine. But I am from the desert and no one would take a toddler and a dog on an 8 mile hike in temperatures over 90. Desert dwellers just don’t act that way. You get up at 5 and plan to be done by 10 in the summer. The weirdest part of this is that they did not split up when they got into trouble—send the healthiest fastest adult alone to go get help.

This.

People cannot imagine this as a murder suicide, hence all of the speculation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why people on this forum are such black and white thinkers. Hiking with toddlers, even in the summer, is fine. But I am from the desert and no one would take a toddler and a dog on an 8 mile hike in temperatures over 90. Desert dwellers just don’t act that way. You get up at 5 and plan to be done by 10 in the summer. The weirdest part of this is that they did not split up when they got into trouble—send the healthiest fastest adult alone to go get help.

This.

People cannot imagine this as a murder suicide, hence all of the speculation.

Sure, that's one of the first thoughts. But it just doesn't make sense here.

[Anonymous]

Can’t read this whole thread but does anyone know if the sheriff’s office has ruled out homicide/suicide? Like, on purpose poisoning? Heat stroke makes some sense, as does the toxic algae, but sadly, despite how attractive this family looked, statistically it’s usually the dad.